posted on July 28, 2003 05:52:10 AM new"Dave - although I am frankly bored out of my skull by basketball I have followed Kobe to some extent since he came out of high school. I was one of those people that thought that an 18 year old kid making millions and on the road was going to be a handful and a half and was waiting for him to blow up. Too much money, too many groupies, too many clubs and too many nights with nothing to do after the game. That's usually a bad mixture. Kobe never seemed to fall into the mix. I was in LA when he started so we got Kobe alerts for breakfast lunch and dinner... never did anyone have a negative thing to say. Do I know him? No. But at the same time, I'm not going on two weeks worth of media blitz."
It's wrong to rubber stamp basketball players with big bucks as dummies. prey to groupies and as someone "about to blow up". That's just another stereotype.
Based on news reports that I have heard, he does not fit so neatly in your stereotypical category.
posted on July 28, 2003 09:01:03 AM new
::It's wrong to rubber stamp basketball players with big bucks as dummies. prey to groupies and as someone "about to blow up". That's just another stereotype. ::
Where did I do that Helen? Where in that statement did I say that he was an dummy? Where is that statement did I say that he was prey? And if you think that groupies and clubbing is a stereotype then you are in denial. I've seen it happen with other people in that situation Helen, people much older than Kobe was when he broke in. If you go back to reports when he first started a lot of people were worried as to whether he was mature enough to deal with the whole situation, plus the added aspect of being in LA which can be an alternate universe for people in sports and entertainment if they fall into the hype. Kobe had every opportunity to fall into the abyss laying in a neat path in front of him and he deftly avoided them and for that he won my respect.
::Based on news reports that I have heard, he does not fit so neatly in your stereotypical category. ::
Guess you didn't actually read my posts in this thread. That is exactly what I have been saying.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 28, 2003 11:10:27 AM new
Sacks Blasts Those Harassing Kobe's Accuser
"Men's and fathers' issues radio talk-show host Glenn Sacks blasted those threatening and harassing the alleged victim in the Kobe Bryant rape case, calling them 'demented animals' on his Los Angeles talk show His Side with Glenn Sacks. The entire statement, which Sacks read on his Sunday, July 27 show on KRLA AM 870, is below:
'Many people have written to me asking me my opinion of the Kobe Bryant case, and before we get into today's topic I'd like to spend a minute on this subject. It is an established fact that many accusations of rape are false. It is perfectly true, as many are saying, that the charges against Kobe Bryant could well be fabrications born of greed or vengeance, and it's quite possible that the DA is pursuing the case simply because of political pressure, or because he wants to make a name and a career for himself.
'Recently nationally syndicated radio talk show host Tom Leykis drew a lot of criticism for naming the alleged victim on his radio show. I see nothing wrong with that--Kobe Bryant is presumed innocent and as of now both he and his accuser are of equal stature before the law. If this does turn out to be a false accusation, I believe that his accuser should be prosecuted and jailed for what she has done.
'HOWEVER, it is certainly possible that the accuser is telling the truth. Despite this, according to the New York Post , the alleged victim has received numerous death threats after her name, home address, phone number and e-mail address were posted on the Internet. I condemn this in the strongest terms.
'I doubt if any of the demented animals who are making these cowardly death threats against the alleged victim are smart enough to be His Side listeners, but if you are all I can say is this--your behavior is despicable, I don't want you as a listener, I don't want you as a reader, and I don't want you as part of the men's and fathers' movement. Turn off your radio and go crawl back into your caves where you belong.'
I think that a person like Kobe can afford to have body guards etc, but the alleged victim, generally speaking, can't or it would be a financial strain for the accuser, which could cause the charges to be dropped, unless the state would continue to press the charges without her help.
My point is that judging Bryant while using the stereotype as a frame of reference is wrong. Although you give Bryant good grades, you still have the stereotype in mind, as you use expressions such as "fall into the hype" and "fall into the abyss"...."too much money, too many groupies, too many clubs and too many nights with nothing to do" It sounds as though he is being set up as an accident waiting to happen.
And so, when a negative situation presents itself such as the rape charge, someone with this framework of reference in mind might be more likely to consider him guilty.
posted on July 28, 2003 12:40:56 PM new
Helen - I spent a couple years on the road so I am basing my judgement on person experiences. I watched men much older, supposedly more mature and much more experienced fall victim to that lifestyle. It's easy to do. That world has very ittle resenblance to real life. It's hard to stay grounded when you are in a different city every night, staying in hotels with people willing do anything you ask just to be near yout. Need an errand run? Forgot your wallet? Have a sexual itch? Not a problem, there is generally someone within the sound of your voice willing to take care of it for you. I watched I don't know how many marriages fall thru the cracks or how much money in alcohol and drugs consumed and as for the groupies....
I've watched that life eat friends alive. The fact that someone as young as Kobe was when he entered the frey has survived and thrived despite it leads me to believe that he is a strong and grounded indivudual, and that's not the type of person that generally lets their impulse control get so far out of whack to commit rape. I am not saying that it is not possible I just don't think that it is probable.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Jul 28, 2003 12:47 PM ]
posted on July 28, 2003 10:23:43 PM new
Helen - I was asked why I had formed the opinion I had formed, I gave my answer as to what thought process and experiences I have had that lead me to my opinion. If this is a problem for you...get over it.
As for the horse - I guess I missed where I passed judgement on you in this thread. Maybe you could point it out to me.
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If it's really Common Sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 29, 2003 07:20:08 AM new
Wow, some interesting points.
In my opinion either they both have to have their names public or both private and I would vote to keep both names off the record until a verdict is reached.
There's too much room for posturing and obstruction of justice in this case.
If one of them leaked info without the court delcaring them that would be different.
Rape is wrong, but accusing someone of rape falsely is a form of rape as well.
Because even if Kobe is declared innocent of rape (he's still guilty of being a dumb ass) he will have this mark on him for a very long time.
posted on July 29, 2003 10:23:50 AM new
I can see both sides of whether or not the victims identity should be made public. But for me, an actual victim would be afraid to come forward.
Decades ago, it was very hard for a female rape victim to complete the prosecution. The male police officers (no female officers at that time) made them feel it was their fault. Society and her family, husband/boyfrind would make her feel raped again. The court system made them feel like it was her fault. So why bother in the first place? THen once they did try, they gave up. Then if the rapist was convicted, the victims were not protected as they are today.
Things are better, but not completely.
Do we really want to regress to the way it was a mere 30 years ago? Many of you weren'teven born 30 years ago.
New York Rape Shield Law, Criminal Procedure Code § 60.42
§ 60.42 Rules of evidence; admissibility of evidence of victim's sexual conduct in sex offense cases.
Evidence of a victim's sexual conduct shall not be admissible in a prosecution for an offense or an attempt to commit an offense defined in article one hundred thirty of the penal law unless such evidence:
1. proves or tends to prove specific instances of the victim's prior sexual conduct with the accused; or
2. proves or tends to prove that the victim has been convicted of an offense under section 230.00 of the penal law within three years prior to the sex offense which is the subject of the prosecution; or
3. rebuts evidence introduced by the people of the victim's failure to engage in sexual intercourse, deviate sexual intercourse or sexual contact during a given period of time; or
4. rebuts evidence introduced by the people which proves or tends to prove that the accused is the cause of pregnancy or disease of the victim, or the source of semen found in the victim; or
5. is determined by the court after an offer of proof by the accused outside the hearing of the jury, or such hearing as the court may require, and a statement by the court of its findings of fact essential to its determination, to be relevant and admissible in the interests of justice.
§ 60.43 Rules of evidence; admissibility of evidence of victim's sexual conduct in non-sex offense cases.
Evidence of the victim's sexual conduct, including the past sexual conduct of a deceased victim, may not be admitted in a prosecution for any offense, attempt to commit an offense or conspiracy to commit an offense defined in the penal law unless such evidence is determined by the court to be relevant and admissible in the interests of justice, after an offer of proof by the proponent of such evidence outside the hearing of the jury, or such hearing as the court may require, and a statement by the court of its findings of fact essential to its determination.
