posted on March 6, 2001 09:25:13 AM new
Izzy: I take back my comments. From your last post I thought the buyer was claiming non-receipt and you didnt have proof of delivery.
No bank, no credit card, no financial institution of any kind plays the kinds of games paypal plays. In my opinion, these are illegal but it will take a lawsuit to find out. If a pays b with a stolen CC and b pays c, then paypal goes after c. That's like a store taking someone's money and saying "since someone else bounced a check on us, we're making you pay for it." I can understand if YOUR customer used a stolen CC. But how the h--- do they expect you to verify everyone who paid him?
posted on March 6, 2001 11:15:17 AM new
Please count me in on any class action lawsuit.PayPal thinks they can skirt the law and walk all over its clients. Everyone please write letters to Visa / MasterCard advising them of PayPal's practices. Also ask everyone that has sent payment to you to write Visa / MasterCard about PayPal's business practices. Visa / MasterCard imposes very heavy fines on processors / aquirers that operate the way PayPal has been operating. Let's hit them where it hurts.
MASTERCARD
PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICE
1401 Eye Street, N.W., Suite 240
Washington, DC 20005 U.SA
MASTERCARD
GLOBAL HEADQUARTERS
2000 Purchase Street
Purchase, NY 10577 U.S.A.
Telephone: 914-249-2000
posted on March 6, 2001 12:12:14 PM new
Hi Clinth,
I am actually given a fair amount of leeway responding to customers. At times I will make mistakes, but I am trying to educate users on how to avoid problems in many cases or trying to fix a problem. I also report all customer issues regarding policy/product problems so that we can make the service stronger and more responsive.
Charge backs can trickle in at various times and I don't have access to your particular case, but the delay could have been in the information getting to us. It could have been in the timeframe that the information got to us and we processed it, but a user would want to keep these records for some time in order to prevent liability for the charge back.
User wants to pay with a bank account and they have several options.
Add funds-3-5 business days from issuing bank to verify that the funds are good and that they will not be rejected.
Echeck-same as above.
Instant Ach-user wants to pay with a bank account but they do not want to wait 3-5 business days and they want to make the payment now. However, the initial transfer has not cleared as good yet. To give the user this option, we place a hold on the credit card for the equivalent amount to secure it.If this user chooses this option, the money is made available immediately with no delay (3-5 business days). An ach transfer is also started. If this ach comes through clear, there is no charge on the card and the hold is removed. The user has not had to wait for the money.
If we did not place the hold on the money, the incoming ach could fail (bank rejection). This would mean the user got the money and sent it, but that we would not have received any money and would be out. The hold is needed for this kind of transaction.
I would recommend the first two items for the users that can wait for the 3-5 business days. If the user has an urgent payment that has to be made, I would then recommend instant ach.
posted on March 6, 2001 01:08:31 PM new
Dear Mr Damon,
Of course you would state that the preferred method to pay by is E-check. This don't cost Paypal a thing. And your on their side.
Also you made this recent statement About the
secured E-Check method.
However, the initial transfer has not cleared as good yet. To give the user this option, we place a hold on the credit card for the equivalent amount to secure it.If this user chooses this option, the money is made available immediately with no delay (3-5 business days). An ach transfer is also started. If this ach comes through clear, there is no charge on the card and the hold is removed.
This is Not true. You failed to mention it takes an additional 10 for this to clear off your credit card. A paypal rep told me this themselves so don't deny it or make people beleive that the charge to their credit card is immediatly released when it isn't.
The best way to pay is by Credit (Debit) Card.
[ edited by myrtlebeaches on Mar 6, 2001 01:10 PM ]
posted on March 6, 2001 01:13:49 PM new
HI myrtlebeaches,
I had mentioned in the earlier thread that the hold on the credit card is released within 7-30 days (it depends on the issuing bank) for the release.
The point I was trying to make is that there is a hold to secure the transaction to make the funds available.If the ach clears in---that hold is removed in the timeframe quoted above and there is no charge made. The card would only be charged if the ach transfer in failed.
posted on March 6, 2001 01:22:18 PM new
Mr Damon you are wrong it is not up to the issuing bank it is up to paypal. I just went throught this with my bank. They release the account the same as notified but yet it 8 more business days for paypal to notify my bank and when they did my account was released the same day.
Besides the account should be released as soon as the amount is covered from the checking. Not no 10, 20, or 30 days later.
IMMEDIATLY!!!!!
posted on March 6, 2001 01:27:10 PM new
Hi myrtlebeaches,
The hold on the credit card does depend on the issuing bank for the removal.I've checked this item several times with Financial Operations now and the hold does get removed on varying timeframes by respective issuing banks. One may drop the hold on the credit card within 7 days and the other 30 days.
posted on March 6, 2001 05:23:21 PM new
Have been reading the recent posts and it seems to me that it is getting off topic, as to accounts getting frozen or restricted, but regardless, I wanted to let people know that I recieved an e-mail telling me my account was restricted a couple of weeks ago. To make a long story short, as I had replied to this message a while back, but since a couple of weeks ago, my account has been reinstated. Needless, to say, I have since withdrawn my meager monies I had left in the account to work off and have, after seeing it has been credited to my bank account, CLOSED my PayPal account. Although I am not a big player and make a lot of bucks, I feel really raped as far as paypal goes and will never deal with them again!!! Screw me once, shame on you (paypal), but screw me twice, shame on me!! I still wonder what repercussions I might get from dealing with paypal, but if and when I do, I will be sure to post and let all know. In the meantime, PayPal, I'm outta here!!!
posted on March 8, 2001 02:32:49 PM new
LET'S FUEL THE EFFORT TO GET THIS INFORMATION TO THE MEDIA AND TO PAYPAL'S PARTNERS. THIS IS THE ONLY WAY PAYPAL WILL GET IN TOUCH WITH REALITY.
posted on March 8, 2001 11:29:53 PM new
I'm just another one in a long line of people who have been screwed over by Paypal. I was verified until they switched to their new system and now I am unverified. I've questioned them about this until I'm blue in the face and they say the same #*!@ over and over again. They need this, they need that to verify me. If i've already been verified by mail that should be it. I refuse to give them my bank account numbers. Last year they froze my account because I charged back something on my card that never arrived and seller would not verify sending so I had my credit card take it off of my bill, which they graciously did. My account was frozen as the woman at Paypal told me, that if you initiate a charge back then that is the same thing as saying that your Paypal account doesnt exist. I said, what the hell kind of sense does that make. After months of back and forth with phone calls from me to them and vice versa it was finally unfrozen, but not before they told me I owed them $9.00, yeah right like i'd pay them. Now their big thing is not letting us receive more than $100.00 a month unless we upgrade so they can charge us and I absolutely refuse to upgrade and pay them a damn thing. Right now if someone uses them to pay me for an item i immediately go there and request a check for the amount. If it's .50 cents or $500.00 I take it out as soon as it shows up. I'd be more than happy to join an lawsuit as it pertains to PayPal.
posted on March 13, 2001 12:26:00 PM new
Hello everyone, first time for me at this Message Board. I have been pressured over and over to use PayPal. It just did not "feel right" to me. So, now, I hear of all these people getting burned. I have a great deal of sympathy for those who got burned. I hope the dishonest prople who burned you, out there, get their just desserts! This only gives me more support to stay away from PayPal. $10. is not enough to lure me in for the kill!
posted on March 13, 2001 06:36:30 PM new
THIS COUNTRIES BIGGEST "PONZI" AND YOU AS CUSTOMERS ARE UNPROTECTED
March,2001
Dear friend:
On September 14.2000, I opened an account with Paypal. At that time it was for the purpose of transferring moneys to people or business programs I wanted to get into on the Internet. Somewhere around Oct. 15.2000 an Internet friend suggested that people were having trouble funding there egold accounts and it might be a business I might think about. As a semiretired businessman, because of a heart condition, I researched this and found that many of the people needing there gold accounts funded had paypal accounts also. Subsequently I opened an egold account and funded it with a thousand dollars. I started advertising on my web page that I could help people change their dollars into gold. Business started to move slowly until people realized that I made fast transactions through Paypal and was honest. My reputation grew rapidly and soon I was doing $200,000.00 a month in transactions with Paypal alone. Somewhere around Christmas I got a charge back notice saying that I was in receipt of potentially fraudulent funds. They "Paypal" asked for certain information in regard to the account named, which I provided. When I called they said it was under investigation. As time went on day by day these transactions kept coming in to the tune of over $20,000.00 worth of so-called fraudulent funds "stolen credit cards." My calls to Paypal only resulted in being passed from one clerk to another with no results. When I did finally get to middle management personnel all I received was a canned speech but no help.They"Paypal" accepted the credit cards and in return sent me a confirmation e-mail stating "you've got cash." The money was in their accounts and three to six weeks later Paypal is saying the accounts were no good. I checked some accounts and found this to be wrong. These people proved that Paypal had debited their accounts and had their monies.
In late January they gave me another support number to call saying I had a "red carpet" account, that way I could speak with management people, a week later they froze my account. This did not allow me to make any transactions but allowed people to make deposits into my account, which I requested be stopped until our problem was resolved. They refused to do this and took other peoples money to satisfy the negative balance in my account. I requested this by email and phone on February 5. My account became positive and they opened it. I started transferring gold into my customers accounts again trying to catch up and then they "locked" my account. As of today they have me +$20,000.00 out of pocket money and a negative balance of somewhere in the $9,000.00 range.
Now they are e-mailing my customers saying they should file fraud charges against me. Also telling them that they have had many complaints against my account and basically that I'm the crook. My customers are behind me and now send me monies in other ways. This I have proof of. see attachment
My point is Paypal is not what they say they are. As a supposed financial institution or so, the only thing they are concerned with is getting accounts which adds up to transaction fees regardless of whether they are legitimate or not. I now see that their policies are strictly set up to protect themselves not there legitimate customers. Their security is at best nonexistent.
1. I did not accept the accounts THEY DID
2. I did not have access to there bank accounts or credit cards. THEY DID
3. I kept my commitment to my customers THEY DIDN'T
4. I researched what accounts I could and proved them wrong THEY DIDN'T
In conclusion I believe they are a young company with growing pains and I believe they should be responsible for their mistakes. If they do not wish to come to satisfactory terms then my only recourse will be to take legal action against them and vigorously inform those on the Internet as to my situation so this does not happen to them.
March 10.2001
UPDATE:
After many hours of telephone conversations with a Mr. Sandeep Lal Paypal's representative my ACCT now is $31,083.45 in arrears and my negative balance has grown to $12,022.63. Each time paypal sends monies back to a customer that sent me money after I asked that they block my account from accepting monies they raise the negative balance. Mr. Sandeep tells me that paypals board of directors would like to have me as a customer and would agree to let me payoff the negative $12,000.00 over a 6 month period. WOW THAT'S MIGHTY NICE OF THEM. They also tell me that as in the past I would be responsible for those accounts that wanted to claim a charge back anytime within a 3-6 month period, and as I was before charge backs from an account that received funds through 2-3 other accounts that were charged back.
WHEW they have some system of accounting and here are some examples
In February I received these contacts from my customers
One customer sent me a fax showing his credit card statement showing 2 transactions charging him for monies he sent me PAYPAL CHARGED THEM BACK ON ME
Another told me her husband made the transfer and she called paypal. NOW SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY AND I DON'T, THAT LEAVES ONLY ONE PLACE THE MONEY IS AT "PAYPAL"
Another called me from Alaska to tell me his funds were "legit".-----It was only $56.50 from his "VERIFIED" account and a verified shipping address.
Another called to tell me that his was made by credit card but paypal debited his checking account creating a negative balance in his account which cost him $25.00 service charge.
Another customer emailed me to tell me that when he inquired as to why they deemed his funds to be "fraudulent" they closed it and would not answer emails to them as to why it was closed.
They "PAYPAL" have consistently took other peoples money to payback supposedly "FRAUDULENT FUNDS" and then charged me for them when I told them I would file theft of funds charges against them.
By the way, in one of the conversations I had with Paypal's representative I was actually asked to help them in investigating these accounts.
What I can't believe is that in this day and age of government regulations they are seemingly unregulated and can change their "terms of service" as they see fit to protect themselves, with total disregard to their customers.
I guess I have no other choice at this time but to seek the help of my attorney generals office as well as my lawyer. In the mean time I will diligently use my time to try and notify my fellow Internet friends and their friends of the possibilities of doing business with this unregulated Internet entity.
FROM Damien Cave's article FEB.23,2001 (salon.com)
Ultimately, no company that processes $7 million in transactions every day, as PayPal claims to do, deserves a free ride, says Ken Thomas, a finance professor at the Wharton School of Business. Because PayPal essentially works like a bank -- thriving in an industry where "any type of activity involving payments is heavily regulated simply because issues of public confidence are involved," he says -- they should be treated as a bank. Changing the laws, or persuading PayPal to buy a bank charter may be difficult, slow and expensive but until then, Thiel and his 575 employees aren't just asking that users endure a few technical difficulties. They're asking for nothing less than blind, pre-Depression trust.
"This is banking circa 1928," says Tom McGrath, managing partner of Bank Earnings International (BEI), a banking consulting company. "It's backwards. They could take all these customers' dollars and misapply them, so the money isn't available when the person wants it. They could be insolvent and no one would ever know."
As one FTC lawyer put it, "if they filed for bankruptcy tomorrow, no one knows what would happen to their accounts."
posted on March 18, 2001 05:31:56 AM new
It's not possible to sell e-gold through PayPal, or any other mechanism which accepts credit cards. There are too many thieves.
The primary reason that thieves swarm around e-gold is because e-gold is an internet currency, and not so much a payment system. They have a 'non-repudiation' policy which means that once you have e-gold in your account, they're not going to freeze your account, or reverse payments. Thieves love this aspect of it, and will exploit any avenue they can to get e-gold into their accounts. From time to time, the police have subpoenaed records and prosecuted cases, but law enforcement will typically not take the time to prosecute small, individual, cases.
I believe in e-gold. The world needs an internet currency. With an internet currency, you can create virtual companies with people in all parts of the world, and make payroll with the internet currency. You can close business deals, and buy items of value, without the expense and delays associated with the banking system. If internet currencies become popular, you will have access to money, anywhere in the world, (or anywhere with an internet connection: space even), as long as you have access to the internet. There can even be competing internet currences with automatic exchange services making an exchange 24 hours a day, seven days a week, so it's decentralized -- it does not require monopoly status. The key, however, is the non-repudiation agreement. People need to be able to trust the internet currency: they need to be able to know that even if they can't trust the person they're doing business with, they CAN trust his money.
Law enforcement needs to learn how to prosecute cases of theft with internet currencies. Since the database of the internet currency is centralized, and all transactions are recorded in the database, acquiring evidence is quite simple, once the appropriate subpoenas are issued. With a complete record of every transaction a thief makes, law enforcement should be able to get more information, with less effort, than they are currently able to acquire through the banking system. They need to learn how, and then take the time to do it when someone complains. Right now, few will.
I see it as a new and exciting world of e-commerce. I hope it works out.
[ edited by SnowDog2001 on Mar 18, 2001 06:02 AM ]
posted on March 26, 2001 12:58:37 AM new
A good place to start when you have problems with PayPal is the Federal Trade Commission at 877-FTC-HELP.
Let them know what's happening and they will advise you on how to proceed. Take the time to file a complaint. Although the FTC does not investigate individual complaints, they do very much take notice of complaints and often take swift and harsh action against companies (the FTC is one of our most effective government agencies). PayPal exists in a new kind of financial realm and your comments will go a long way in protecting consumers.
posted on March 26, 2001 02:44:34 AM new
I was just going to sign up for paypal, thanks alot for saving me the agony. i always browse around first before joining anything and am really glad i found you guys. i couldnt find any sites that may help you guys out except this one:
posted on March 27, 2001 07:27:54 PM new
About a month ago, my citibank visa changed to citbank mastercard. Hundreds of thousands of people had to change their credit card #'s. Paypal locked down my account and DEMANDED that I send in several forms of indentification. I realize they are trying to protect the end user. It's not what they did but how they went about it. They were very demanding, hard, rude, and abrasive. When I first started reading all this stuff I didn't really beleive it all til this happened to me recently and I realized that PayPal could and would lock down however much money I had with them, and there's nothing I could do about it, I don't like that! My PayPal account is now "un-restricted" without as much as an apology. I sent PayPal an email that suggested that the website be able to allow the credit card user to list a new credit card for verification if a previous one is changed by the credit card issuer or lost. I'm sure thousands of #'s are changed or lost everyday. They said their system wasn't capable of that? Come on! They process millions of dollars each day I'm sure. Anyway, I just got a really bad taste in my mouth from PayPal and their whole "were so big we can do whatever we want to" attitude! One representative told me about how many thousands were joining each day and I asked him if he's ever seen one of those chain emails that hit billions of people within a months time, he just kinda shrugged it off. That's why I've listed what I did about PayPal in my auctions and you'll see in the end of my email in my signature the link to the page on auctionwatch. Now mind you this is just a teeny weeny portion of what's going on out there with PayPal, if there's this much just on Auctionwatch, then there's bound to be more elsewhere on the net. I don't mean to ramble on but they've really rubbed me the wrong way on this deal, I mean come on, look at my feedback!!! Like one of the comments in the link you'll read where prominent high + feedback sellers where losing reputation because of stupid stuff like I went through, or in other cases you'll read about where good sellers were sent fraudulent funds from a fraud bidder and PayPal just shuts down their accounts, without explanation. Not once did PayPal inform me why they shut down my account, I only ASSUME it was because of the CC # change. I originally feared I had been sent fraudulent funds. Oh and on that note, your only protected by PayPal's seller protection policy if and only if you upgrade to their pay service where you have to pay a high fee for each transaction processed plus a high percentage of the total amount. Do you realize how much money in interest they earn each day with the millions, probably billions that sits in their account each day? They must think we are all mathmatical idiots!!!!! How do you think banks provide thousands of people free checking, it takes a lot of overhead to track, process and mail out checking account statements every month but yet thousands of banks across the nation have totally FREE checking, it's because of the money they earn off the interest while that money sits in their bank, THAT'S why they can do it for free, PayPal doesn't even have to keep up with statements nor do they have the cost of mailing them out each month, so I don't buy the whole "we need to charge you to stay in business" bull #*!@ story! Anyway there's my beef with PayPal. READ the link and BELIEVE the stories. I didn't at first but I sure do now!! Save yourself some grief and tell everybody you know. Forward this email to everyone you know. Be sure the link to auctionwatch remains intact so they can check it out for themselves.
posted on March 27, 2001 09:33:36 PM new
THIS COUNTRIES BIGGEST "PONZI" AND YOU AS CUSTOMERS ARE
UNPROTECTED
March,2001
Dear friend:
On September 14.2000, I opened an account with Paypal. At that time it was for the purpose of transferring moneys to people or business programs I wanted to get into on the Internet. Somewhere around Oct. 15.2000 an Internet friend suggested that people were having trouble funding there egold accounts and it might be a business I might think about. As a semiretired businessman, because of a heart condition, I researched this and found that many of the people needing there gold accounts funded had paypal accounts also. Subsequently I opened an egold account and funded it with a thousand dollars. I started advertising on my web page that I could help people change their dollars into gold. Business started to move slowly until people realized that I made fast transactions through Paypal and was honest. My reputation grew rapidly and soon I was doing $200,000.00 a month in transactions with Paypal alone. Somewhere around Christmas I got a charge back notice saying that I was in receipt of potentially fraudulent funds. They "Paypal" asked for certain information in regard to the account named, which I provided. When I called they said it was under investigation. As time went on day by day these transactions kept coming in to the tune of over $20,000.00 worth of so-called fraudulent funds "stolen credit cards." My calls to Paypal only resulted in being passed from one clerk to another with no results. When I did finally get to middle management personnel all I received was a canned speech but no help.They"Paypal" accepted the credit cards and in return sent me a confirmation e-mail stating "you've got cash." The money was in their accounts and three to six weeks later Paypal is saying the accounts were no good. I checked some accounts and found this to be wrong. These people proved that Paypal had debited their accounts and had their monies.
In late January they gave me another support number to call saying I had a "red carpet" account, that way I could speak with management people, a week later they froze my account. This did not allow me to make any transactions but allowed people to make deposits into my account, which I requested be stopped until our problem was resolved. They refused to do this and took other peoples money to satisfy the negative balance in my account. I requested this by email and phone on February 5. My account became positive and they opened it. I started transferring gold into my customers accounts again trying to catch up and then they "locked" my account. As of today they have me +$20,000.00 out of pocket money and a negative balance of somewhere in the $9,000.00 range.
Now they are e-mailing my customers saying they should file fraud charges against me. Also telling them that they have had many complaints against my account and basically that I'm the crook. My customers are behind me and now send me monies in other ways. This I have proof of. see attachment
My point is Paypal is not what they say they are. As a supposed financial institution or so, the only thing they are concerned with is getting accounts which adds up to transaction fees regardless of whether they are legitimate or not. I now see that their policies are strictly set up to protect themselves not there legitimate customers. Their security is at best nonexistent.
1. I did not accept the accounts THEY DID
2. I did not have access to there bank accounts or credit cards. THEY DID
3. I kept my commitment to my customers THEY DIDN'T
4. I researched what accounts I could and proved them wrong THEY DIDN'T
In conclusion I believe they are a young company with growing pains and I believe they should be responsible for their mistakes. If they do not wish to come to satisfactory terms then my only recourse will be to take legal action against them and vigorously inform those on the Internet as to my situation so this does not happen to them.
March 10.2001
UPDATE:
After many hours of telephone conversations with a Mr. Sandeep Lal Paypal's representative my ACCT now is $31,083.45 in arrears and my negative balance has grown to $12,022.63. Each time paypal sends monies back to a customer that sent me money after I asked that they block my account from accepting monies they raise the negative balance. Mr. Sandeep tells me that paypals board of directors would like to have me as a customer and would agree to let me payoff the negative $12,000.00 over a 6 month period. WOW THAT'S MIGHTY NICE OF THEM. They also tell me that as in the past I would be responsible for those accounts that wanted to claim a charge back anytime within a 3-6 month period, and as I was before charge backs from an account that received funds through 2-3 other accounts that were charged back.
WHEW they have some system of accounting and here are some examples
In February I received these contacts from my customers
One customer sent me a fax showing his credit card statement showing 2 transactions charging him for monies he sent me PAYPAL CHARGED THEM BACK ON ME
Another told me her husband made the transfer and she called paypal. NOW SHE DOESN'T HAVE THE MONEY AND I DON'T, THAT LEAVES ONLY ONE PLACE THE MONEY IS AT "PAYPAL"
Another called me from Alaska to tell me his funds were "legit".-----It was only $56.50 from his "VERIFIED" account and a verified shipping address.
Another called to tell me that his was made by credit card but paypal debited his checking account creating a negative balance in his account which cost him $25.00 service charge.
Another customer emailed me to tell me that when he inquired as to why they deemed his funds to be "fraudulent" they closed it and would not answer emails to them as to why it was closed.
They "PAYPAL" have consistently took other peoples money to payback supposedly "FRAUDULENT FUNDS" and then charged me for them when I told them I would file theft of funds charges against them.
By the way, in one of the conversations I had with Paypal's representative I was actually asked to help them in investigating these accounts.
What I can't believe is that in this day and age of government regulations they are seemingly unregulated and can change their "terms of service" as they see fit to protect themselves, with total disregard to their customers.
I guess I have no other choice at this time but to seek the help of my attorney generals office as well as my lawyer. In the mean time I will diligently use my time to try and notify my fellow Internet friends and their friends of the possibilities of doing business with this unregulated Internet entity.
FROM Damien Cave's article FEB.23,2001 (salon.com)
Ultimately, no company that processes $7 million in transactions every day, as PayPal claims to do, deserves a free ride, says Ken Thomas, a finance professor at the Wharton School of Business. Because PayPal essentially works like a bank -- thriving in an industry where "any type of activity involving payments is heavily regulated simply because issues of public confidence are involved," he says -- they should be treated as a bank. Changing the laws, or persuading PayPal to buy a bank charter may be difficult, slow and expensive but until then, Thiel and his 575 employees aren't just asking that users endure a few technical difficulties. They're asking for nothing less than blind, pre-Depression trust.
"This is banking circa 1928," says Tom McGrath, managing partner of Bank Earnings International (BEI), a banking consulting company. "It's backwards. They could take all these customers' dollars and misapply them, so the money isn't available when the person wants it. They could be insolvent and no one would ever know."
As one FTC lawyer put it, "if they filed for bankruptcy tomorrow, no one knows what would happen to their accounts."
"club1man is making a number of incorrect and possibly illegal assertions about PayPal on a number of public Internet forums. The simple truth of the matter is that club1man's e-gold business attracted a large number of credit card payments that were unauthorized or disputed, and "charged back." As is standard in the payments processing industry, and in accordance with our Terms of Use, PayPal paid these "chargebacks" and then sought to hold club1man liable for these repudiated payments, as we do for any seller who has not qualified for our generous Seller Protection Policy. club1man did not qualify for this protection due to the nature of his business, has refused to abide by our Terms of Use, and has refused to accept his financial and legal responsibilities to our company. As a result, we have ceased doing business with club1man and will pursue legal action to recover the funds he owes us. We believe he may now be seeking to further avoid the legal ramifications of his actions by spreading erroneous information about our company. This, too, will be the subject of any legal proceeding.
PayPal's 7 million members send over $8 million in nearly 200,000 separate payments through our network each day. Very few of these transactions ever result in a dispute. To help protect members against those that do, we provide a Seller Protection Policy, that holds sellers harmless against chargebacks if they take certain preventative measures. This has helped PayPal maintain one of the lowest fraud rates in the industry and to become the #1 online payment service. Thank you for your interest and support of PayPal."
[ edited by paypaldamon on Apr 3, 2001 12:53 PM ]
posted on March 30, 2001 09:13:48 AM new
PAYPAL BOASTS THAT THEIR CEO "PETER THIEL"WAS A GUEST OF THE PRESIDENT.I HAVE AND YOU SHOULD ALSO LET THE PRESIDENT KNOW ABOUT HIS COMPANY. SEND AN EMAIL TO YOUR PRESIDENT AND YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. AT THIS SITE----http://government.aol.com/mynews/
posted on March 30, 2001 12:12:58 PM new
I have been experiencing problems with Paypal as a buyer. Currently, I am out $45 in non-sufficient funds charges at my bank because of Paypal's inept procedure.
((Sorry about length!!))
Upon authorization to PP to send funds from my checking account to pay an auction, Paypal immediately places a hold on these funds at my bank. The following day, Paypal removes the funds as a separate transaction. To my bank, this is a totally separate transaction. Unless I have twice the funds necessay, I get a NSF charge.
EXPLANATION
If you have $200 in your checking account and authorize Paypal to send another user $105 dollars, they will immediately place a hold on the funds. This leaves an available balance of $95. The following day, Paypal will initiate a new request to your financial institution to remove the funds from your account. Because this is apparently a new transaction, you only have $95 available, the transaction is declined and you are charged your banks fee for the insufficient funds transaction
After sending 3 messages via their feedback form and receiving nothing but automated replies, I contacted Paypal by telephone. They have a "secret" subscriber customer service number (402-935-7733) that does not appear anywhere on their site. In fact, they do not have any phone numbers listed on their site at all. Calling information for their state and the toll-free directory did not work as well. I happened upon their phone number in a newsgroup. I called and spoke with Sheryl regarding what I believe to be a serious problem. Sheryl listened patiently and indicated that she was aware of the way that Paypal processes their electronic transfers. She said that "while some people object to the way we do it, most people are fine with it." I emphasized that not only am I not fine with it, but it has cost me $45 in NSF fees. She said that she would forward my complaint to the appropriate department and they will respond to me by e-mail on whether or not they will reimburse me and "is there anything else I can do for you?".
posted on April 6, 2001 11:02:29 AM new
I have also had problems - someone paid me for an auction, about $210 american, through paypal - it was my first time using paypal so I needed to enter credit card information until I could withdraw money. Well it takes a month until I get my credit card bill so I had to wait a month to have my account verified.
Well I clicked "complete" on the transaction, and the transaction read "Completed succesfully" and the money showed up in my paypal balance. I shipped the item and it was good. I thought "Good, I can withdraw it at a later time!", and came back three weeks later (once I got my credit card bill) and had found that the transaction had been reversed! After reading through their documents, I found transaction could only be reversed if the "complete" button hadn't been pressed(which it had!). I email PayPal asking how did you let this guy steal my money and they send me back an email a week later, (5 weeks after the completition of the auction & payment), that the payment wasn't made with his money (the buyer) and therefore I shouldn't ship him the goods. FIVE WEEKS AFTER I RECIEVE A MESSAGE THAT PAYPAL HAS CONFIRMED PAYMENT, THEY TELL ME THAT IT WASN'T *REALLY* CONFIRMED, AND NOT TO SHIP THE ITEM!?!?! What the hell is this? Now I have no item, no payment for it, and no body to turn to!
I would be more then willing to participate in a class action law suit.
posted on April 6, 2001 11:02:33 AM new
I have also had problems - someone paid me for an auction, about $210 american, through paypal - it was my first time using paypal so I needed to enter credit card information until I could withdraw money. Well it takes a month until I get my credit card bill so I had to wait a month to have my account verified.
Well I clicked "complete" on the transaction, and the transaction read "Completed succesfully" and the money showed up in my paypal balance. I shipped the item and it was good. I thought "Good, I can withdraw it at a later time!", and came back three weeks later (once I got my credit card bill) and had found that the transaction had been reversed! After reading through their documents, I found transaction could only be reversed if the "complete" button hadn't been pressed(which it had!). I email PayPal asking how did you let this guy steal my money and they send me back an email a week later, (5 weeks after the completition of the auction & payment), that the payment wasn't made with his money (the buyer) and therefore I shouldn't ship him the goods. FIVE WEEKS AFTER I RECIEVE A MESSAGE THAT PAYPAL HAS CONFIRMED PAYMENT, THEY TELL ME THAT IT WASN'T *REALLY* CONFIRMED, AND NOT TO SHIP THE ITEM!?!?! What the hell is this? Now I have no item, no payment for it, and no body to turn to!
I would be more then willing to participate in a class action law suit.
posted on April 6, 2001 12:21:37 PM new
Hi afronaut,
The only payments that can be reversed are the ones that are not claimed by the account receiving them money.
Did you claim the payment and make sure the payment showed in your transaction log?
However, if a charge back was filed, the money could be pending reversed if you did not follow the details of the Seller Protection Program (applicable to US accounts only.
Charge back liability is explained in the Terms of Use.
I don't have your account records to look at your case, and I would be more than willing to, but it seems this would happen because of one of the two reasons mentioned above.
I had a similar experience a few weeks ago. I had a customer who sent their payment but asked that I ship the item to his work address rather than his verified one. I usually accept those payments, so I went ahead and shipped the item, knowing I was giving up my right to the Seller Protection Program benefits but decided to take that chance. I did click on Completed just as you did. Later, I received an email from the customer asking for a tracking number. I sent him the tracking number and within 30 minutes, I received an email that the payment had been cancelled.
What I didn't realize was that I had neglected to click on Accept. Since I had not clicked the Accept button, the transaction was still technically pending, and he could and did cancel his payment.
As much as I'd like to blame someone else, this was my own fault for not paying attention to detail. So the customer now has his money and my merchandise and there's nothing I can do about it. But if I had only paid more attention to what I was doing, he couldn't have cancelled that payment.
I'm not saying your situation is like mine, I just wanted to share my experience with you. It's not always PayPal's fault. Sometimes you're just dealing with a less than ethical customer who takes advantage of a situation. We live and learn I guess. I know I've learned never to ship anything without formally accepting the payment first.
posted on April 8, 2001 08:19:04 AM new
Count me in..
I too had similar problems. A few months ago, they changed their policy on receiving you OWN money in your OWN account. One day, I just could not get a check sent to me. They claimed it was because I did not have a credit card assigned to my account. Why do I need a credit card when I NEVER charge anything, just take money out!
I had no choice but to give them a credit card to receive my own $400!
Needless to say I don't like to use them, but if someone pays me via PayPal, I sweep it that day.
Too bad too, I used to keep a balance of at least $200 in there (that I received no interest for). But that was the original deal. They make money on floating MY money, which was fine. Now X-Com owns them and destroyed a good company. I knew it's just a matter of time before a class action suit.
I also have the "unverifed" problem. Why do they need my bank account. Just do what you promised to do and we'll get along just fine...
posted on April 8, 2001 11:02:47 AM new
Hi kk1124,
Sorry for the problems that the change in the check withdrawal policy created for you.
However, this is done as a fraud deterrent and this is how we confirm that the address the check being sent to is valid (the credit card avs screen provides an address release that supports the address the check is being sent to).
Users that didn't want to provide a credit car, but still wanted to withdraw by check, also have the option of faxing over information to support the address. Check withdrawals to PO boxes are not permitted.
posted on April 8, 2001 07:49:42 PM new
LET'S GET TOGETHER GUYS AND GALS. WE NEED EVERYONE TO CLOSE THEIR PAYPAL ACCOUNTS. SINCE I GOT AWAY FROM USING THEM PEOPLE USE CREDIT CARDS TO PAY BY WESTERN UNION,MONEYGRAM,AND BANK WIRES.GUESS WHAT NOT A SINGLE CHARGE BACK. NOW I'M GETTING MY MONEY PAYPAL'S NOT. CLOSE YOUR ACCOUNTS AND TELL BUSINESS WEEK, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL AND OTHER PUBLICATIONS ABOUT YOUR PROBLEMS. MAIL YOUR CONGRESSMEN AND SENATORS.PAYPAL NEEDS TO BE SCRUTINIZED AND I MEAN "NOW"
This topic is 12 pages long: 1new2new3new4new5new6new7new8new9new10new11new12new
