posted on August 30, 2003 01:56:56 PM new
Yes its true it was staged, I was there. I went undercover for the army as a Sheeeeite spy. Oh dear GOD i cannot tell you how many cans of SECRET deoderant i went through on this gig! Very smelly place. Now I know why the Catholics came up with the idea of rocking that big metal thing full of incense down the aisle! religion gets STINKY when people are involved.
Anyway, I flew in under the cover of night in one of those head to toe bathrobes for women. I had to do the AV work for the gig. All the other techs were busy keep curfews etc.
The reason I was selected was my father was the adviser for the staged trip to the moon and the staged blowing up of the space station. Its a legacy you might say.
posted on August 30, 2003 01:59:22 PM new
ROFL! I thought I saw you in one of the brief clips!
"Be kind. Remember everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle." - Harry Thompson
"I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom I provide and then questions the manner in which I provide it." - A Few Good Men
posted on August 30, 2003 02:22:49 PM new
BCC - whatever your justification - you are still advocating the genocide of millions (including the children) of people based soley on their religion. I think you may have forfeitted the right to imply negativity to Hitler.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 30, 2003 02:27:49 PM new
dadofstickboy
I don't see you bringing to light any facts to the contrary do I? If you have any, post them. But all you do is start insulting the poster. Apparently you believe that the information posted is the absolute TRUTH and have nothing of significance to state.
No what we have to do is secure a regime change and then arrest or kill whoever attacks us from that point on.
The problem is the whole country would revolt and try to kill us becouse of the wohabi religion so we would have no choice. We still havent retaliated for us getting attacked on 9/11.
This whole war on terror has been a smokescreen.
[ edited by bigcitycollectables on Aug 30, 2003 02:30 PM ]
posted on August 30, 2003 02:29:00 PM newGee:
I was hoping this thread would carry on for a while.
Guess all the Democrat reporters are up at Fat Ted's house Drowning Girls and getting away with it for the Holiday Weekend.
So:
I guess nothing will be Copy & pasted till Tue.!
BCC: Will never come up with anything on his/her own!
posted on August 30, 2003 02:53:36 PM new
Big - That is not what you said.
1) We should go to the UN and get the rest of the world to take them out
2) Yes we should bomb the Sauidis becouse they attacked us on 9/11.
3) Wohabyism must end before the war on terror will
You want to wipe out an entire religion and it's followers. PLain and simple.
You don't remember this statement?
Kill them all. We wont have any choice but to kill them all becouse they have been raised to kill anyone that is not a radical muslum.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
[ edited by Fenix03 on Aug 30, 2003 02:57 PM ]
posted on August 30, 2003 03:02:11 PM new
Yes the religion has to end or the actions of the religion have to end.
Your on a witch hunt. I never intended that we whipe out the entire population. The actions of the religion are th problem.
The problem is they will attack us no matter what so we will have no choice but to defend ourselves with Pre Ventive action.
What Im saying is better then what the administartion wants to do. If you pay attention you will notice that they want to whipe out all radical islam.
The only radical islam that wants to attack the us is wahabyism. The rest just retaliate against Isreal becouse they torture and kill the Palestinians.
Dont read to far into what Im saying. Im agaisnt the actions of the religion not so much the people.
posted on August 30, 2003 03:14:15 PM new
The reason the mainstreem media is propagnda is becouse the CEOs are mostly right wing and becouse its corporate. They are making money off of this administartion becouse of Corporate welfare.
Fox News, Washington Times, New York Post, Weekley Standard, Wall Street Journals Owner Rupert Murdoch is a member of THE PROJECT FOR THE NEW AMERICAN CENTURY.
NBC News Owner is also the the Right Wing CEO of General Electric. They produce Nuclear Weapons.
CNNs Ted Turner is trying to compete with the rest of the right wing media and is affraid of being called a liberal news channel.
[ edited by bigcitycollectables on Aug 30, 2003 03:14 PM ]
posted on August 30, 2003 03:27:37 PM new
Am I the only one that sees a fatal flaw in the concept that a religion that is thousands of years old being centered around the elimination of... not another religion... but a country, and one that has only existedfor 227 years at that?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
Men Are Like Grapes. If You Stomp on Them and Keep Them in the Dark Long Enough, They Might Turn Into Something That You Would Take to Dinner
posted on August 30, 2003 03:33:03 PM new
Wahhabism:
For more than two centuries, Wahhabism has been Saudi Arabia's dominant faith. It is an austere form of Islam that insists on a literal interpretation of the Koran. Strict Wahhabis believe that all those who don't practice their form of Islam are heathens and enemies. Critics say that Wahhabism's rigidity has led it to misinterpret and distort Islam, pointing to extremists such as Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. Wahhabism's explosive growth began in the 1970s when Saudi charities started funding Wahhabi schools (madrassas) and mosques from Islamabad to Culver City, California. Here are excerpts from FRONTLINE's interviews with Mai Yamani, an anthropologist who studies Saudi society; Vali Nasr, an authority on Islamic fundamentalism; Maher Hathout, spokesperson for the Islamic Center of Southern California; and Ahmed Ali, a Shi'a Muslim from Saudi Arabia. (Also see the Links and Readings section of this site for more analyses of Wahhabism and Saudi Arabia.)
a Shi'a Muslim who grew up in Saudi Arabia
If you go to school in Saudi Arabia, what do you learn about people who are not followers of Wahhabi, of the prophet?
The religious curriculum in Saudi Arabia teaches you that people are basically two sides: Salafis [Wahhabis], who are the winners, the chosen ones, who will go to heaven, and the rest. The rest are Muslims and Christians and Jews and others.
They are either kafirs, who are deniers of God, or mushrak, putting gods next to God, or enervators, that's the lightest one. The enervators of religion who are they call the Sunni Muslims who ... for instance, celebrate Prophet Mohammed's birthday, and do some stuff that is not accepted by Salafis.
And all of these people are not accepted by Salafi as Muslims. As I said, "claimant to Islam." And all of these people are supposed to be hated, to be persecuted, even killed. And we have several clergy -- not one Salafi clergy -- who have said that against the Shi'a and against the other Muslims. And they have done it in Algeria, in Afghanistan. This is the same ideology. They just have the same opportunity. They did it in Algeria and Afghanistan, and now New York. ...
What do you mean, it reached New York?
Well, when it was a local problem, the American media did not really care much about it. But until September 11, you saw how this faith of hate, I call it, did to all of us, to New Yorkers and to the rest of the world, honestly. ...
But the Saudi government has condemned what happened on September 11....
... Yes, Prince Nayif condemned bin Laden, and other princes... Prince Turki condemned bin Laden. They did not condemn that message. They condemned bin Laden. ... Bin Laden learned this in Saudi Arabia. He didn't learn it in the moon. That message that Bin Laden received, it still is taught in Saudi Arabia. And if bin Laden dies, and this policy or curriculum stays, we will have other bin Ladens. ...
Can you show me an example of what the [religious teaching is in the schools?
Well, here, this is a book, hadif, for ninth grade. Hadif is a statement of Prophet Mohammed. This is a book that start for ninth graders. This is talking about the victory of Muslims over Jews. This is a hadif that I truly believe it's not true, as a Muslim:
"The day of judgment will not arrive until Muslims fight Jews, and Muslim will kill Jews until the Jew hides behind a tree or a stone. Then the tree and the stone will say, 'Oh Muslim, oh, servant of God, this is a Jew behind me. Come and kill him.' Except one type of a tree, which is a Jew tree. That will not say that." This is taught for 14-year-old boys in Saudi Arabia.
In middle schools...
In middle schools, yes. Official middle schools. This is a book printed by Saudi government Ministry of Education. (Ed. Note: read some excerpts from these textbooks.)
an anthropologist specializing in Saudi society
... When the Saudi government came to power in 1932, it tried to get rid of these various different groups, or ethnic groups or beliefs, and unify it all into one?
Actually, yes. ... [into] the Wahhabi Islamic thought... They regarded it as much purer because it's more fundamentalist, much more conservative than the people who are like in the south, the people in Mecca, who had more mystical religious trends, such as the Sufi trend, which is very mystical.
So the state religion in Saudi Arabia is this pure, stricter form of Islam?
Yes. ...
And we're told by people we've interviewed that it's the nature of this thought, its fundamentalist nature, that can be easily manipulated, so that people would, for example, become violent or extremist.
I think that the new mood, the new trend, especially after the Gulf War, has become for all these neo-Wahhabis ... [is to use] Islam ... as a platform for political ideas and activities, using Islam to legitimize political, economic, social behavior. These people have been brought up in a country where Islam legitimizes everything. And they have used the teachings from the religious establishment, but became more political in expressing dissent and criticism of the regime.
And it's been exported. To Pakistan, through systems of madrassas and throughout the Islamic world.
And it has been exported, yes, indeed.
We are told that it's this form of fundamentalist religion represented by this Wahhabi-influenced Islamic, if you will, ideology, or view, that has created, if you will, a seedbed for people to become violent, to become anti-American, and to do the kinds of things that we call "extremism" now. Is that true?
I don't think it has to do with Islam. I don't think it has to do with any form of this ... Islamic interpretation. ... Of course there is a problem with dogma. But I think the problem lies with the political systems that use religion. ...
There's been a politicization of Islam. You've said it. But bin Laden, and his, if you will, similar people, are using Islam to promote political goals.
Yes.
They base this on a dogmatic interpretation of the religion itself, black and white. Is the base of support that they are gaining a result of this proliferation of this view of Islam? ... Wahhabism is what I am talking about. ... Is there a relationship between that and this development that we see of bin Laden and his movement?
Probably there would be a relation between an interpretation of Islam that lacks tolerance, and is a more narrow vision of the world. But particularly the problem is about the political systems that promote this type of interpretation of religion. This gives people the excuse, the platform, to go ahead and express themselves in Islamic language to suit their purpose of political ends.
an authority on Islamic fundamentalism
... Saudi Arabia has its own particular interpretation of Islam which is very legalistic, is very austere, it's very black-and-white.
[Wahhabism is] sort of an extreme orthodoxy that historically has not been shared by a majority of Muslims, particularly nobody outside of the Arabian Peninsula.
...
Is there a connection between the fundamentalism of the Taliban and the fundamentalism of the Wahhabi?
The connection has been growing very, very strong in the past 20 years, and particularly in the past ten years. The dominant school of Islam with which the Taliban associate -- which is known as the Deobandi school -- is very prominent in Afghanistan and also in wide areas of Pakistan. Northern India has increasingly gravitated toward Wahhabi teaching, and has very, very strong organizational ties with various Wahhabi religious leaders.
When we saw the Taliban destroy the Buddhist statues and other artifacts in Afghanistan, is that similar to a Wahhabi view?
Yes, yes. Because Wahhabis don't believe in tombstones, don't believe in images being acceptable, don't believe in statues. They believe all of these are forms of polytheism. A majority of Muslims don't share that degree of literal reading of religious texts or banning of these kinds of reflections. ...
And the Wahhabis dominate in Saudi Arabia?
The Wahhabis dominate in Saudi Arabia, with also significant influence and presence in United Arab Emirates, Oman, Kuwait. ...
The nature of these Islamic beliefs, you're saying, foster fundamentalist extremism?
The teachings are fundamentalist in the definition you have in mind. The question is who's going to cross the line and engage in violent acts or not. So you see, recruitment into terrorist movements is small generally.
There's a big swamp out there of people.
Right, yes. And what we're confronting is not just flushing out Al Qaeda. The bigger headache for the U.S. government is dealing with the Muslim world as a whole, with the political ramifications of our counterattack. That's the bigger problem. ...
a senior adviser to the Muslim Public Affairs Council and the spokesperson for the Islamic Center of Southern California
But what is the creed of Islam that is preached in Saudi Arabia? What is it called?
Well, the word "creed" is important because the creed of Islam is the same: the belief in one God, the belief in the oneness of his message, the oneness of the human family. And the devotion to God should be expressed in human rights, good manners, and mercy, peace, justice, and freedom. No two Muslims will argue about this creed. It is documented in the Koran as the highest authority, modeled by the authentic teaching of the prophet, and the authenticity has always been subject of study and debate.
So the creed is crystal clear. But the interpretation or the way you approach life, which should be a dynamic thing, should change from time to time. When you freeze it at a certain period or at a certain interpretation, problems happen. I know that people called it Wahhabism; I don't subscribe to the term. [Muhammed bin Abd al-Wahhab] at his time was considered a progressive person.
If you freeze things at his time -- which was the eighteenth century, or the late part of the seventeenth century, I don't remember the dates exactly -- it becomes very stagnant and very literalist. And a very straitjacketed puritan approach that does not cater to the changeables and the dynamics of life. People call this Wahhabism.
Saudis, by the way, never say, "We are Wahhabis." They say, "We are just Muslims." But they follow the teachings, and the major booklets taught in all schools are the books of Muhammed bin Abd al-Wahhab. Anyone who's subscribing to someone else is not very much welcomed.
So there's a quote in the [New York Times] article that we were looking at before that basically says that Saudi Arabians believe that their form of Islam ... is the real true form of Islam, and that pretty much any other kind of way of practicing Islam is wrong.
Yes. This is probably some of the Saudi scholars. ... They are playing the role of clergy; there should be no church in Islam. There should be no theological hierarchy. But they acquired that position and, of course, them and the ruling family are very close. After all, Muhammed bin Abd al-Wahhab is the one who paved the road for Abdul Aziz ibn Saud, the patriarch of the family, to conquer the rest of the [Arabian] Peninsula and to rule. So there is very great cohesiveness between the two.
And so they believe that that's it, this is the truth. And not only that that is it, it does not change, which is very problematic. Because we know that even at the early history of Islam, as new issues emerged, new jurisprudence was created to suit the change of the time and age. That's early on, at probably 25 years after the death of the prophet, peace be upon him.
So they, that group of people, believe that this is the only form and it does not change. This of course creates major problems, and it creates some kind of schizophrenic situation. ... I don't think that Wahhabism ... will condone or accept lots of things that are done by some of the elite of Saudi Arabia who come to Las Vegas and have fun and do this and do that. And we don't hear a very strong voice exposing this or condemning them for that. But if they see a woman driving a car, they consider this a major sin. There is confusion here.
We wanted to actually protect Islam from that very narrow tunnel-visioned look that will make it irrelevant, will marginalize Islam as one of the shaping factors of human civilization, as it has always been. Once you are irrelevant to the civilization of the time and age, you can have your own cocoon and say whatever you want. But who cares?
posted on August 30, 2003 03:38:32 PM new
The boys who were over there covering the news,where people like (*** & me )
They were doing their job.
They were defenceless, riding on the soldiers backs.
Some them got hurt others did not!
There was no time for staging what happened.
The Fact is: What You saw IS what was going on!
This is the light contrary to this post!
If you don't believe a live news cast or any other kind of live coverage,Then you should have been there!
But that will never happen will it!!!!!!!!!!
posted on August 30, 2003 04:25:26 PM new
The military has a history of staging events for the camera. From MacArthur's triumphant return to the Philippines, the planting of the flag on Mount Sirabachi (sp?), George the 2nd landing on the deck of the Abraham Lincoln and others. It wouldn't surprise me if this event was staged for domestic (and world) consumption.
Friends don't let friends vote Republican!
posted on August 30, 2003 04:33:36 PM new
OH please, I have been through this before IT WAS STAGED! gee don't you guys know what goes into a production like this? its exhausting! I was busy running AV for the statue toppling AND i had to go over and mike up Jessica Lynch, it was all just draining.
You know, if you want to know who was really telling the truth it was that minister of information guy. There was never even a war! you all are such chumps! Saddam is in Vegas getting a sex change so he can be reinstated as a CEO for Shell. He wants to be a blond and leggy like your girl Ann Coulter but with big ones so he can feel himself up at night....
Those Shites are the best actors! you all just don't know how the whole world is laughing at you Americans! Everyone is on to the joke in the entire world. The only American that can't be fooled is BigCityC---
posted on August 30, 2003 04:47:43 PM new
Here's one to prove it, read it an weep!
www.therealnewsonlydude.com
Saturday, August 29
AP-Bill Clinton has been discovered to have a body double such as Saddam Hussein used in the staged war with Iraq. Clinton, while pretending to have an affair with a one husky Monica Lewinsky was only a simple diversionary tactic. Clinton wanted the focus of the American people on his randy penis rather than his bulbous, Chesire cat like grinning mug so that he could have a series of plastic surgeries to look just like George Bush Jr. The real George Bush Jr. was killed by the CIA while shaving. Clinton seized the white house as the new George Bush Jr so he could screw up the economy, start a never ending war, raise the price of Gas, and wear an inappropriate band aid on his face during presidential speeches. This tactic is used to create a national hatred for the Republican Party so he can once again be president by getting Hillary elected. He wants to be the FIRST MAN as well as have a reason to get next to Anne Coulter.
- Harry Thompson
