kraftdinner
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posted on October 24, 2003 01:58:00 PM new
Linda and Helen, you are both good debaters, imho. This board would be a drag without the both of you, strong-willed vixens! 
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Linda_K
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posted on October 24, 2003 02:17:08 PM new
KD - Well, thank you.  I hope people can tell when we're just pushing each other 'buttons' and when we're serious.
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profe51
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posted on October 24, 2003 09:10:34 PM new
I hope people can tell when we're just pushing each other 'buttons' and when we're serious.
What, you mean sometimes you just do it for sport???
___________________________________
In this world of sin and sorrow, there is always something to be thankful for; as for me, I rejoice that I am not a Republican. -- H.L. Mencken
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tomyou
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posted on October 24, 2003 09:35:57 PM new
I was just feeling a little evil, thats all KD, no harm intended I am pretty sure helen knows that. I guess it was as Profe says just for the Sport of it
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Linda_K
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posted on October 25, 2003 02:14:05 AM new
tomyou - No reason not to call 'em as you see 'em.
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ah, profe, LIFE is but a game.
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tomyou
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posted on October 25, 2003 10:32:32 AM new
Yea your probably right linda. I was still actually a little miffed about the whole issue helen had with the stopping of newshounds at the return of fallen soldiers. Just because Bush did it, it was a bad thing. Truth be known it was a Clinton law that was ever enforced and doing so was long overdo. It's not done to "hide the truth" from the public. Showing a little respect to the fallens family is what it is about and the newshound DO NOT do so in those situations.
I wondered when I read her post on that how she would feel about that if it were her child coming home in that manner. Would she welcome the cameras in that situation ? I ask you to answer that question helen ! It's not a pleasant situation and in general the press could give a crap less about your feelings all they want is that high dollar almighty shot of your kid in a casket. Damn that Bush, what was he thinking ! Well Helen please answer !
Boy went off on a little rant of my own there didn't I
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Linda_K
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posted on October 25, 2003 12:36:10 PM new
tomyou - You're not alone we've all had our rant's a time or two. We're human.
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Helenjw
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posted on October 25, 2003 03:00:02 PM new
tomyou
I am so sorry for every parent whose child has been killed in this war. Regardless of my aversion for bush or for his unconscionable justification for this war, I believe that these soldiers deserve the same recognition that all other soldiers have received throughout history when they are returned to the United States. Anything secretive with the goal of manipulating public opinion is as offensive as the justification of the war.
It really breaks my heart to see so many lives ended by death and ruined by wounds in a battle that should never have been fought. To hide the fact that these good soldiers have been killed while serving this country is scandalous. That is how I feel and that is how I would feel if I were a parent of a soldier killed in Iraq.
Helen
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tomyou
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posted on October 25, 2003 03:26:46 PM new
Here is a newsflash for ya helen. That can be done without the hounds videoing the casket. CBS mentions daily those killed as do other newscasts. Same newscast can be had with a memorial backdrop and a mention of the names of the fallen soldiers and thats NOT hiding any fact while still showing respect for the family But I guess any respect for the family should be viewed with minimal importance in helenland. It is not needed and not necessary for them to be at the plane jockying for position. What is scandolous is the behavior of so called professionals at these events. I am very certain by your views on this subject that you have never been at one of these events, because if you had an saw what goes on at times your poor breaking heart would be strumming a different toon.
It is in no way secrertive or maninipulative to show a memorial backdrop of some type while mentions the fallens name and that they were brought home. It is called respect for dead and their family.The law was passed in the Clinton era because the families of those brought home in the past were disturbed by the actions of those that showed up and they are the ones that deserve the respect.
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Helenjw
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posted on October 25, 2003 03:38:08 PM new
Seeing those caskets is really disturbing to you, tomyou. I know how your feel. Sometimes though, I believe that it's appropriate to be disturbed. America should be very disturbed.
I gave you my sincere answer without insulting your position, tomyou. I expect the same in return from you.
Helen
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tomyou
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posted on October 25, 2003 03:42:26 PM new
You called it whiping up patriotism and a propaganda fiasco when it was done to support the war and was critical of all involved and they should be ashamed but when its the same propaganda the other way and it support you anti war agenda it's ok and to be damned this wishes of those involved. sounds a bit hypocritical . Like I said the same and a even more powerful effect can be made with some sort of a memorial backdrop even using a photograph of the fallen perhaps even with their family or some video footage if available. this in no ways take away from the meaning of the event and allows room for some respect for the family. I am sure you have been more moved by a backdrop or video with some type of music while mentioning the soliders name and family and in my opinion adds even a more dramatic effect. Bottom line is respect for the family .I have been with them and they deserve more respect than you are willing to let them have
[ edited by tomyou on Oct 25, 2003 03:47 PM ]
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tomyou
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posted on October 25, 2003 03:52:38 PM new
I think you may be missing my point a litle also helen. Seeing the casket is NOT the most disturbing thing at these events. The lack of respect and total disregard for the family is. If you want to designate one photographer to be at one position and photo the event that would be one thing but belive me that is not how it works and with today's cut throat rating battles thats not how its ever going to work. Again if you could be at one of these events you would change your thoughts after seeing it and that is what the people had in mind when trying to get that "act" passed and in effect. It had nothing to do with masking anything. That can be done even more dramtically with todays technology with trampling the family in the process
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Helenjw
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posted on October 25, 2003 03:55:04 PM new
This is the story that was posted in another thread.
Curtains Ordered for Media Coverage of Returning Coffins
By Dana Milbank
Tuesday, October 21, 2003; Page A23
Excerpt...
Since the end of the Vietnam War, presidents have worried that their military actions would lose support once the public glimpsed the remains of U.S. soldiers arriving at air bases in flag-draped caskets.
To this problem, the Bush administration has found a simple solution: It has ended the public dissemination of such images by banning news coverage and photography of dead soldiers' homecomings on all military bases.
In March, on the eve of the Iraq war, a directive arrived from the Pentagon at U.S. military bases. "There will be no arrival ceremonies for, or media coverage of, deceased military personnel returning to or departing from Ramstein [Germany] airbase or Dover [Del.] base, to include interim stops," the Defense Department said, referring to the major ports for the returning remains.
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Helenjw
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posted on October 25, 2003 04:05:53 PM new
And from that article about Clinton.
The photos of coffins arriving at Andrews and elsewhere continued to appear through the Clinton administration. In 1996, Dover made an exception to allow filming of Clinton's visit to welcome the 33 caskets with remains from Commerce Secretary Ronald H. Brown's plane crash. In 1998, Clinton went to Andrews to see the coffins of Americans killed in the terrorist bombing in Nairobi. Dover also allowed public distribution of photos of the homecoming caskets after the terrorist attack on the USS Cole in 2000.
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tomyou
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posted on October 25, 2003 04:23:32 PM new
I really think we are debating two seperate things. I am less concerned about the viewing of the caskets than with the disregard and lack of respect for the families. That is what I take issue with and until it can be dealt with that will be my continued position. Show me how it can be done while maintaing the respect for the families involved and I wouldn't have a problem. But it has been proven time and time again the press dollar shows respect for no one. I wouldn't wish you to go through one of those but I think you would better understand my position have you had. The effect of the casket has on the public opinion I could care less about. The effect the press has on those families attending siad event I do care about.
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tomyou
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posted on October 25, 2003 04:25:23 PM new
to end on a lighter more upbeat note. I'm off to seee Cuba Gooding in Radio with the family so I'll give you a movie critic update when I get back Till then someone else with have to spar with ya !
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Helenjw
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posted on October 25, 2003 04:30:11 PM new
Hope it's a good one!
Helen
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