posted on October 29, 2003 04:11:11 PM new
Aust - you are right - unfortunately there is a lot of lowland brush plus this area is so densely populated that there is a ton of fuel to make those big fires. If the Cedar fire makes it to the national forest it's going to get even worse because of the pine beetle infestation that has left the forest littered with millions of dead trees... may as well be cans of gasoline in a forest fire.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 29, 2003 04:22:43 PM newAnd along comes lindak to blame the environmentalists and the Democrats. How low can you go?
Helen
I blame the person/people who have intentionally started these fires. And I have long disagreed with the environmentalists who have fought brush clearing, forest clearing. Senator Feinstein only states the truth. You appear to be under the impression that ONLY democrats are environmentalists. That is not the case....there are republicans that are too.
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miscreant
[i]Lindak
It is a very uninformed low blow to use this disaster too take a shot at the Liberals. I have friends in Julian, Arrowhead, Claremont, and San Diego and some of them may lose their homes.
So do I, miscreant. Friends and family in Simi Valley all the way down to and including San Diego. Just calling it like I see it....and as it was reported by a democrat who agrees.
posted on October 29, 2003 04:42:52 PM new
Apparently then Linda I have to say that you are seeing things that San Diegians are not. Controled fires and brush clearing are regular occurrances. You may remember, or your friends may be able to remind you, that one of the biggest fires down here last season that took out a couple dozen homes was a "controled" burn that got out of control.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 29, 2003 05:01:29 PM new
fenix - take a breath. The tragedy of these fires doesn't only affect you liberals. Others are concerned about the plight of ALL who live in the fire areas. My comment on brush thinning did NOT mention, nor single out, San Diego. It was a general statement on what the environmentalists oppose on a continuing basis.
---
I also have family that live in Prescott, AZ who have this same problem...can barely get past the environmentalists [without a fight] to get their trees that are infected with the beetle cut down either.
Lake Tahoe's residents have long been concerned that 'control burning' has not been allowed....and they too are loosing trees to the beetles.
Fires spread faster in areas where these procedures have not been allowed. I'd think that after CA's last heavy fire problem, SOME would have seen the need for clearing.
posted on October 29, 2003 05:05:18 PM new
640 KFI, LOS ANGELES. JOHN & KEN SHOW. IF YOU ARE IN THE SOUND OF THEM. I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST THEM. I LISTEN TO KFI DAILY. THE GOODWILL HAS BUFFALOED THEM INTO PROMOTING A GOOD WILL PICK UP OF USEABLE GOODS FOR THE FIRE VICTIMS, DO NOT BELEIVE THIS!!!!!! THE GOODWILL IS A PRIVATE ENTERPRISE. NONE,,,,,, OF WHAT THE GOODWILL IS COLLECTING FROM GOOD HONORABLE PEOPLE WILL "ever" SEE A FIRE VICTIM.......NEVER!!!!!!! THEY ARE IN THE BUSINESS OF "SELLING"!!!!! DONATED GOODS AND THROWING UNSOLDS INTO THE COUNTY DUMP!!!!! FACT!!!!! THE GOOD WILL DOES NOT BUY CHEVROLET AND FORD TRUCKS TO PICK UP DONATIONS THEY BUY "MERCEDES BENZ" TRUCKS!!! DOES THAT TELL YOU ANYTHING? I AM LESS THAN 20 MILES FROM LONG BEACH, CAL. THEY HAVE A HUGE FACILITY, I "USE" TO BUY THERE. THEY SELL,THEY DO NOT!!!!! "GIVE" THE GOODS BACK TO THE UNFORTUNATE. THEIR EMPLYOEES, TAKE THE TRUCKS RIGHT TO THEIR HOME AND DUMP OFF THE GOODS, THE GOOD STUFF......THE INSIDE PEOPLE GET THE GOODS THE DRIVERS DID'NT AND SNATCH IT UP,,,,,,,ONCE "YOU" FIND A "GOOD" THING IN THE AS IS LOT,,,,OOPPS SORRY,,,WE HAVE TO TAKE THAT,,,,,,WE PICK,,,AND THEY TAKE IT. WITH MY OWN EYES,,,,,I COULD FILL A BOOK WITH WHAT I KNOW. 4 YEARS OF PICKIN'. EMBEZZLEMENT.....YOU NAME IT. DO NOT!!!!! GIVE TO THE GOOD WILL....Sorry about no perfect sentence structure and all the baloney. CAPS!!!!! Who cares,,,,,,I don't. The message is out. LET'S FOLLOW THAT TRUCK OF DONATED GOOD AND "see" WHERE THAT TRUCK GOES....
JOHN AND KEN HAVE A WEB SITE, NEVER BEEN THERE,,,,,THEY HAVE A PHONE NUMBER TOO. DON'T KNOW IT.....I THREW OUT THE BOLDER YOU GUYS GRIND IT DOWN.......THE RED CROSS,,,,,EAR MARKED FOR THE "CALIFORNIA FIRE VICTIMS" ,"ONLY" IS THE ONLY WAY TO GO,,,,,REMEMBER THE 911 RIPOFF? FROM THE RED CROSS? YES, ALL OF YOU DO.
I COULD NOT BELIEVE MY EARS WHEN I HEARD ABOUT THEM PROMOTING,,,,,,GOODWILL,,,,,THEY HAVE "no" IDEA. GOOD GUYS, BUT NO IDEA. NOT THEIR FAULT.
posted on October 29, 2003 05:32:02 PM new
::fenix - take a breath. The tragedy of these fires doesn't only affect you liberals.::
Did you want to come back in and tone that one down a little bit? I guess I missed where I have said a damn thing about conservatives moderates or liberals - this is not political in my view - it's a fire and the don't go by party lines.
The only thing responsible for these fires is at least one arsonist, an idiot hunter, possibly the military and a few as yet undetermineds. It does not matter how many dry shrubs there are if people would just stop light ing damn things on fire.
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 29, 2003 05:35 PM ]
posted on October 29, 2003 05:48:12 PM new. Just calling it like I see it....
You have a cold-hearted way of looking at things. Using a tragedy to vent your spleen about environmentalists is a sign how low you neo-cons will stoop.
It was a controlled burn that almost wiped Idyllwild off the map and the cutting Bush wants to do is the healthy trees for lumber.
Arrowhead had a program to remove the bark beetle infested trees with little help from the feds. The trouble is it takes the trees just a few weeks to die and after 2 weeks the tree is no good for lumber because of fungus and useless for firewood because it burns too fast. There are millions of dead trees and more every day.
Because of the weather conditions the last few years the bark beetles have had 8 breeding cycles a year rather than the normal 3. Each cycle produces more beetles than the previous one until the cold weather causes them to go dormant.
I am sure my friends will be comforted by your concern.
It does not matter how many dry shrubs there are if people would just stop light ing damn things on fire.
Unfortunatly there is no defence against stupidity or a sick mind.
I almost lost my home a few years ago when a transformer on a utility pole exploded and ignited the brush. Luckily the brush is cleared from around my house and we have our own firehose. The power company was supposed to remove all of that type of transformer but when he deregulated energy, Pete Wilson allowed them 5 more years to remove them.
[ edited by miscreant on Oct 29, 2003 05:50 PM ]
posted on October 29, 2003 06:10:52 PM new
no fenix, I don't have a thing I want to 'tone down' as I made my initial post because it was a statement from a democrat who agrees with the way I see the the problem with these reoccuring forest fires. Once they get going they have tons of 'fuel'.
And there were others, fenix who brought the issue of politics in to this mix....before I did...but you didn't respond to them when they made their statements.....just mine. Which is expected and didn't bother me in the least. So...no...no asking to take my previous post down in tone this time, thank you anyway.
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Using a tragedy to vent your spleen about environmentalists is a sign how low you neo-cons will stoop. Vent my spleen???
I posted a statement from a DEMOCRAT.....not a neo-con. But I do admit that Diane Feinstein is a more moderate democrat that you.
You first brought up the political connection lindak by posting a newsmax story, entitled, Dems Pressured to Stop Abetting Fires
Don't try to blame your dumb post on someone else.
posted on October 29, 2003 06:35:26 PM new
If might be helen, if that is what I'd done. But I didn't blame anyone for **starting** these fires. Just made a comment on what someone, previous to my post, said about this subject.
posted on October 29, 2003 06:37:32 PM new
Could you possibly be more offensive or insulting? Everyone is worried about relitives, friends, or just the tragedy of what is happening. You are only concerned about your posting of what some democrat said. Heartless.
I'm simply trying to understand why you would post a story entitled, "Dems Pressured to Stop Abetting Fires" in the middle of a thread in which the California fires is the topic. I am not alone in thinking that your post was inappropriate...to say the least.
posted on October 29, 2003 06:57:18 PM new
No need to pity me. But they certainly are correct when they call you 'the angry left'. Everyone who isn't like minded is 'heartless' etc etc. Yeah...right.
posted on October 29, 2003 07:04:35 PM new
Novato firefighter-paramedic Steve Rucker was killed near Julian today when he, another firefighter, a fire captain and an engine driver protecting houses were suddenly overcome by flames.
Rucker's captain, Doug MacDonald, also from Novato, was in critical condition at the UC San Diego Burn Center, and the two other crew members were recovering from moderate burns.
Fred H. Batchelor, of the California Department of Forestry & Fire Protection, said that the crew was overcome by flames while protecting a house and unable to make it back to their fire engine. Two crew members sought shelter inside the house that they were protecting, but MacDonald was seriously injured while attempting to find Rucker, who was later found on the porch of the house. About 3,330 firefighters have worked around the clock to keep the Cedar fire - which has devastated more than 233,000 acres of San Diego County - away from the historic downtown area of Julian, once a gold-mining town.
posted on October 29, 2003 07:19:27 PM new
Here was the other article I referenced from WorldNetDaily...taken from the San Jose Mercury News, Maybe they shouldn't have brought up the fact that these fires might just lead to the passing of legislation to help prevent this type of thing in the future. This has been, and continues to be an issue when these fires get this much out of control.
Fires might break deadlock over effort to thin forests
FEINSTEIN URGES SENATE TO PASS COMPROMISE, REDUCE RISKS
By Jim Puzzanghera
Mercury News Washington Bureau
WASHINGTON - Legislation to reduce the risk of wildfires -- proposed more than a year ago after earlier Western blazes -- has been stalled in Congress for months because lawmakers have been unable to agree on the details. Now, the devastating fires raging through Southern California might free that logjam.
``It's time for this body and this Congress to act,'' Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who is pushing compromise legislation, told her fellow senators Monday night.
Widespread support
There is wide agreement that millions of acres of forests need to be thinned to keep them from exploding into deadly wildfires. The dispute in Congress is over where the thinning should take place: near communities to try to stop fires that threaten homes, or deep in the forest to keep small blazes from mushrooming into giant ones.
The Bush administration wants to attack the problem primarily in the forests, and the House of Representatives passed legislation in May that makes it easier to thin underbrush and log larger trees in the deep woods.
Many environmental groups charge that the work needs to be done near communities, not out in so-called old-growth forests that the timber industry covets. With the support of key Senate Democrats, environmentalists have held up the bill in hopes of changing it.
Feinstein and a bipartisan group of senators want to split the difference.
posted on October 29, 2003 07:27:33 PM newNo need to pity me. But they certainly are correct when they call you 'the angry left'.
Maybe we are angry when the heartless ones like you try to make points with lies from scummy neo-con rags on the backs of those who are suffering. Angry? Yes. You fail to understand people are suffering and dieing and all you can think about doing is posting a lie from a scummy neo-con rag.
Diane Feinstein (D-CA) sent out a letter with several other Senate signatures basically telling the Administration and the House leadership that the language adopted in the Senate negotiations was the ONLY language that would pass the Senate on a floor vote
Where do you get out of that Feinstein is supporting Bush? That scummy neo-con rag left out a lot didn't it?
posted on October 29, 2003 07:29:44 PM newI am not alone in thinking that your post was inappropriate...to say the least. Well....good...now you have that off your chest. Won't stop me from saying what I wish to say. You're the one who first brought anything political into this thread, by mentioning Bush.
Then bunni made her comment about the 'right-winged' .... so I responded. You think it's inappropriate....I don't care what you think. I think it very much has to do with why these fires get out of control once they've been started. So...we disagree...what's new?
Now....maybe compromise legistlation just MIGHT get passed.
posted on October 29, 2003 07:34:29 PM new
We all hear the same news, fire fighters have now been killed,,,,,they have given ALL...This is Horrible! Give,,,,,to those who survive. That's all we can do.
posted on October 29, 2003 07:39:05 PM new
Oh yes, according to you my friends and relatives are of no concern to me at all, I have no heart when it comes to their safety and well being. Nope...none. And all because I disagree with what needs to be done, should have already been done, to prevent this terrible spread of wildfires.
If Senators like Feinstein,etc. are willing to compromise with Bush's proposed plan....that is a good thing.
posted on October 29, 2003 07:44:38 PM newjackswebb We all hear the same news, fire fighters have now been killed,,,,,they have given ALL...This is Horrible! Give,,,,,to those who survive. That's all we can do.
I am never surprised to see those that come forward to help those in times of need like this. There are many that are stepping forward to do all they can for those who have lost so much.
One of our friends, in the San Diego area, were surrounded on three sides by fire, approx. 2-3 miles away from their home. But they have already opened their home to a couple and their family who were ordered to get out of their home. People have big hearts and will help all they can.
posted on October 29, 2003 08:15:32 PM new
Ok thats better, now you ALL get time out, and no internet for 3 days.
they really have a filter on this ......
ok sorry, the girls stepmother, whom I don't even know died today, and I feel like s h i t over it. And everyone that is getting hurt in this fire, is getting to me too. I really feel bad for everyone. There has been way too many tragedys lately for everyone.
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posted on October 29, 2003 10:15:13 PM new
jacksweb’s comment in the opening of this topic was perhaps a little overly optimistic in expecting that
“Much Good information WILL arise from this post
C’mon Guys!!!!
Any good ideas on how an American fire stricken ‘Battler’ can “LAWFULLY” MILK an Insurance Company.
Did you read what I posted from an Australian Professor of Psychiatry [i]"Disasters remind us that healthy societies are built upon people who act collectively, rather than in self-interest. Volunteer organisations such as the CFS epitomise this spirit,"[i] (CFS=country fire service)
Does anyone recall ever reading 15 Volunteer Insurance Underwriters Die Fighting Disaster???
Hell NO! It’s always a different kind of ‘damage control’ for them.
Unashamed, Egotistical, & hopefully Inspirational; SLAP IN THE FACE……
At Least I Can Say That: On This Thread, I’ve Done My Small Bit To try And Help My American Brothers.
ON THIS ISSUE: The Enemy Is Clear::::
Fires & Slippery Insurance Underwriters; And Those That Aid them.
