posted on January 20, 2004 12:02:21 PM new
American culture is kinda funny. The human body is a big no-no, but films depicting people being beaten up or killed by the dozens are perfectly OK... Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 20, 2004 12:23:00 PM new
bunnicula, I've often thought the same about American culture. Though Canada is closely linked, there was nudity on CBC TV programs back in the 60's. Canada could also show actual models wearing bras for bra commercials long before it was allowed in the US. For many years it wasn't proper to show an actual armpit for underarm deodorant commercials either.
Helen, I don't find the picture of the child offensive either. As I said in the other thread, I disagree about the way the seller is marketing his auction by using words like "naked girls".
Some years ago I sold art prints from Holland in my shop. I am showing a pic of a Kim Anderson one. A fellow came into my shop and threatened to report me to the authorities for selling child porn. He was truly outraged and I was stunned that anyone would think such a thing.
posted on January 20, 2004 12:59:21 PM new
The fellow that complained must have been thinking something else and didn't see the innocence in it that most others did. Another person in my store that witnessed it said "Makes you wonder where his mind is at!"
Many times I ordered a mixed lot of prints and I wasn't totally sure what would be in them, except that they were guaranteed to sell well or the supplier would take them back. I also got into trouble for selling this one (also from Holland) and I can see why some were offended. It was a topseller though.
posted on January 20, 2004 03:32:33 PM newI disagree about the way the seller is marketing his auction by using words like "naked girls".
I can agree with this thought about this guys auction and as such I have not taken any actions.
Kiara,
I do not see your images as offensive, but then you aren't describing them in a sexually charged manner. Your 2nd image to me just looks a young fellow that is telling someone how old he/she was when their parents got married, one.
I guess I am saying that I am still open to discussion on the subject. You have to admit though that his auctions seem to portray or promote, albeit to some, child pornography.
Go back and look at his other actions and read his descriptions. I don't think his auctions are even appropriate for the adult section with the ways that he describes them using children as a selling point.
posted on January 20, 2004 04:18:17 PM new Auction Description
"First edition limited to 10000 copies. This is a large, beautiful book filled with full page images in both black and white and color. The subject matter consists of dreamy still lives, landscapes and many nudes of women and younger girls. The images are beautifully printed and will make an excellent edition to any photography collection. This is a limited edition book in excellent condition minus a very small rip in dustjacket and a very small red ink mark on the bottom outside pages. I will ship it out media mail for $4. International shipping will be extra, please email me for exact cost. I prefer to be contacted within 3 days of your winning bid if only to let me know that you are alive and plan on paying me. Thanks for looking and good luck!"
Title of auction
Color Sheila Metzner nude women/naked girls
In the listing title, I think that he is just trying to attract attention to his auctions...similar to the LOOK@ or all caps that some sellers use. His auction descriptions, such as the one above are decent and well written. I have checked out his books and I don't see anything objectional.
Other than naked or nude, what words should he use in your opinion?
Perhaps you object to the gay or erotic references?
posted on January 20, 2004 04:19:10 PM new
I've learned a lot about human nature by the items I've sold over the years. The people that have complained the most are also the ones that have spent the longest time perusing the racks of risque t-shirts or greeting cards even though I did have warnings that it may be offensive to some. I've often wondered if they found it so offensive, why did they take the time to look at and read each one.
No, I don't like that the words "boys" and "girls" are used in his auctions. I think some of the other auctions should be in the adult categories but I've never really studied ebay's rules on this and it's not something I buy or sell.
The little girl portrayed in the picture in the auction would now be an adult. I'd be interested in what she would think about the way she is being marketed. When nude pics of children are taken and used for commercial purposes it's not like they have a say in the matter.
posted on January 20, 2004 04:25:36 PM new
I just did a quick search for "naked girls" and it looks like the other auctions are calling adult women "girls" so that's the difference I see. The auction in question is showing a naked girl that isn't adult.
posted on January 20, 2004 04:25:59 PM new"The little girl portrayed in the picture in the auction would now be an adult. I'd be interested in what she would think about the way she is being marketed. When nude pics of children are taken and used for commercial purposes it's not like they have a say in the matter."
That's a good point, Kiara. When I was taking photography classes, we were required to have releases signed by the people that we photographed. That's been a few years ago... I don't know the policy now. The parents probably have to sign the model release for the children.
posted on January 20, 2004 04:49:09 PM new
No. I think that it was simply an exercise to teach responsibility to those people who planned to work professionally.
posted on January 20, 2004 04:56:50 PM new
That photo reminds me of a painting by Eric Fischl called The Old Man's Boat and the Old Man's Dog. Everyone in the boat is nude on stormy seas...with a Dalmatian dog. I think it was painted in the 80's.
If you wanted to get hits on Ebay's search and sell that painting you would need to describe the painting.
posted on January 20, 2004 05:01:34 PM new
This reminds me of a magazine article I read a few years back.
A California Photographer had published a book that featured shots taken on a nude beach when he lived in France. He went to the trouble to contact the family that he had photographed and got a new release just in case any had grown uncomfortable with having their images used after a space of years. Sorry I can't remember his name.
He was raided and his files and negatives all taken by the police. He was found not guilty in court but it didn't matter much. When the police returned his files almost all of them were ripped or had cigerette burns through them or coffee or orange juice had been poured in the folders.
posted on January 20, 2004 05:13:25 PM new
I must say, I've seen Greek & Roman statues as well as Renaissance paintings that are more "pornographic" than the pictures shown by this seller.
It's sad that, in our culture, the simple naked body doing nothing at all lewd, is considered "pornographic." Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 24, 2004 11:54:57 AM newJan. 24, 2004
NEW ORLEANS (AP) - Loyola University has blocked a campus production of Eve Ensler's "The Vagina Monologues," apparently after the Jesuit school's president voiced concerns about the play's language.
Erica Ciccarone, an English major who had planned to stage the play as a fund-raiser for women's groups, said the school president, the Rev. William Byron, made it clear in a meeting last week that the production was off.
Loyola spokeswoman Kristine Lelong confirmed that the play will not be produced on campus. However, Byron said in an interview that he had not decided to quash the play.
"We'll see what happens," he said.
"The Vagina Monologues," written by Ensler, was an off-Broadway hit in New York after opening in October 1999. The play explores issues and perceptions related to women's sexual anatomy.
Ensler has allowed her play to be staged on college campuses for fund-raising purposes, and scores of college groups have responded.
Loyola's production had been planned for Valentine's Day as part of a national "V-Day" campaign to stop violence against women. Proceeds would have gone to the Loyola's Women's Issues Organization.
