posted on January 23, 2004 01:30:29 PM new
LOL! Hiya Katy! Great to see ya! Stick around -- the true morons here are so ignorant they'll say anything and think they're spouting wisdom. Makes for hilarious exchanges!
posted on January 23, 2004 02:24:18 PM new
Gravid, I think your post is *sophisticated*...lol
It is after all, the intent behind it. Sometimes you have wonder what people choose or allow themselves to be offended by; is that my responsiblity?
I have found some southerners, white at that even, are offended as soon as they hear my yankee accent. Quite a few are as pleasant and good humored as can be. But some, I find, still feel they have to live down the perception that all yankee's think they are dumb clucks or whatever and are immediately on the defensive.
If they have this preconceived notion and it sets them off just hearing my voice, is that MY problem?
posted on January 23, 2004 02:39:15 PM new
At its heart, this issue is really one of sensitivity, imo.
Krafty wondered if she should be responsible for knowing the original words to every racially offensive rhyme or saying before ever opening her mouth again and obviously the answer is "no".
On the other hand, when offensive terms/rhymes/etc. are brought to our unwitting attention ( - a few decades ago, Frito-Lay Corporation willingly abandoned its "Frito bandito" advertizing campaign because Hispanics found it degrading) we should, those of us who practice "do unto others as you would have others do unto you" , make every effort to cease the perpetuation of them...
posted on January 23, 2004 03:36:03 PM new
Pat, I just think if I offend someone with something I say, I hope they'll tell me so I can apologize. Apologies don't seem to be enough these days.
posted on January 23, 2004 04:05:13 PM new
I don't agree, Krafty and Robin; I think, had those two ladies boarding that Southwest flight immediately expressed their displeasure at the (perhaps innocuous) little ditty chirped by the flight attendant, and had she been made to understand then and there why it was taken wrong, and had she then apologized for the (unintended) slur, the enitre matter of the lawsuit (to bring attention to the incident) would have been prevented.
We've all -- black, white, and shades in between -- become so afraid to resolve even the slightest misunderstandings or differences amongst ourselves, as people, as individuals , that we stew and fester and seek remedies outside our own abilities (the courts, for example) to connect one to another.
The great failure of The Great Society, imo, was that its practical provisions ultimately served only to isolate us (racially and economically) even further.
It's a sop -- yes indeed it is -- to attempt to mop up that flawed vision of Lyndon Johnson's with a heightened personal awareness of racism, but it's all I have, and I would humbly submit that it's all any other white-never-hassled-by-the-cops-never-denied-a-job-never-refused-an-apartment-never-made-the-butt-of-a-rhyme person can offer...
posted on January 23, 2004 04:25:28 PM new
My mistake, Pat. I thought she DID apologize. Didn't you, Rawbunzel? If she didn't apologize after realizing what it meant to those girls, I think she's wrong too.
posted on January 23, 2004 04:32:51 PM new
Yes, I was under the impression that she had apologized. An apology was in order. However I still believe that the women were overly sensitive and that the matter should never have gone to court.No matter what. There was no racial slur and none intended.
I would never expect you to agree with me all the time, Pat.
My heritage has been the butt of many a joke...Irish and Scandinavian. Heck, even my name, Robin , has made me the butt of jokes growing up. I learned to not be offended where none was intended.People need to learn that not everyone has shared their exact life experience. It would be impossiible for me to have done so.They don't share mine either. I don't expect them to act as though they have.
The cops have pulled me over in the past just to harass me..I drove a car,a 67 GTO, like one that some guy drove that aways got into trouble with the law and every time I was dring in his neck of the woods they pulled me over and went through my car.Guess I shoulda sued them!!! All religions are equally right
posted on January 23, 2004 04:35:00 PM new
I'm not clear on it myself, Krafty. As I understand it, the two ladies endured the "rhyme" and went to their seats, seething. And my point was that had they confronted the matter then and there, it would have been resolved to everyone's satisfaction...
posted on January 23, 2004 04:36:24 PM new
Oh yes, I have also been denied housing because I had kids..years ago they could do that. I also was denied a job because I was a woman..they used to be able to do that too.
posted on January 23, 2004 04:44:16 PM new
Seems that either way that housing law worked someone got punished Rawbunzel. First you could not find an apartment because of the kids and then I could not find an apartment not surrounded by kids
I lucked out and found my solution. Families tend not to rent lofts, they like seperate rooms too much
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If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 23, 2004 04:51:36 PM new
Robin, you know I loves ya, but there is a palpable distinction to be made between what you, as a "white" person and I, as a "white" person have experienced in the form of discrimination versus what non-whites experience as a matter of course -- subtly, not-so-subtly, but incessantly.
I could tell you tales of being the only female carpenter on a job, and having my tools urinated upon by the men I worked with. Was that discrimination? Sure it was! But it wasn't something that humiliated me to my core. There was no earlier/similar precedent for it in my consciousness, no history that said I somehow deserved to be treated so badly, so I could take that incident and bill the contractor extra for the time it took to clean my tools. End of story.
Black people, Mexican people, Indian people, Asian people, have a documented, inherited sense of the wrongs America has perpetrated upon them. My family's folklore gears towards who cheated who out of some fortune, and maybe yours does, too; I'm simply aware that other people haven't considered being pulled over in a GTO the greatest act of discrimination they've ever endured...
posted on January 23, 2004 04:53:38 PM new
Fenex, I think there do need to be kid free apartments. Now that I am older and my kids are grown I would never want to live in an apartment complex with too many children!!I really didn't even think about the fact that I could not rent the place back then. It really was the sensible way to go.
Pat how could she have apologized if the ladies went "seething" to thier seats?Seems to me that the only solution would be as you suggest..they should have let her know that she had made them feel uncomfortable. Why would they then try to sue unless they were looking for money? Makes it look rather suspicious to me. I doubt they were afraid to say anything. I've seen people of every color say things, and loudly too, on public transportation when they were displeased. I am beginning to think that an apology is not at all what they had in mind. All religions are equally right
posted on January 23, 2004 05:03:04 PM new
Pat, we are busily cross posting.
I am not in agreement with you here. These women should have picked a better battle.This one was nothing.It should not have been made into anything.It really doesn't have anything to do with racism and discrimination. There simply was not any there.
We all have different life experiences that shape who we are. It is what we as individuals do with them that counts. If these women were so offended by something that contained no racial slur at all perhaps they have some issues of their own that they need to work on.I am sure that the stewardess by the very nature of her job has endured much discrimination and sexism. She ,perhaps,has a hard life too.
All religions are equally right
[ edited by rawbunzel on Jan 23, 2004 05:07 PM ]
posted on January 23, 2004 05:08:04 PM new
Raw - I could not agree more about kid free zones. The best I have seen it done in apartments was an "apartment community" I used to live in. There were buildings at the top of the hill and other down below the hill. Generally families were shown units down the hill and singles or childless couples dominated the units on top of the hill. The two sections even had their own pools so we on top avoided the noise, splash wars and having our cars raked by kids on their bikes while the kids were able to run scream, play and splash at will. Unfortunately most places are not as expansive as that one was.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 23, 2004 05:57:42 PM new
Ack, Robin, "stewardess" is sooo passe and politically incorrect these days. "Flight attendant" is the correct term.
posted on January 25, 2004 11:05:06 AM new
This is related to this conversation. Last night I was watching America's Most Wanted and they said that the word "gypsy" is derogatory. I didn't know that. I looked it up in Encarta dictionary and got this:
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Language Advisory
The dictionary entry you requested contains language that may be considered offensive.
Encarta takes seriously its responsibility both to encourage learning and to respect the role of parents in their children's education. We have rated our dictionary content according to the guidelines of the Internet Content Rating Association (ICRA). You can set your Internet browser to help block potentially objectionable material, including dictionary entries that may be considered offensive.
gyp·sy (plural gyp·sies) noun
somebody with nomadic lifestyle: somebody who has a nomadic or unconventional lifestyle
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How long has this word been considered wrong to use? Doesn't Cher still sing "Gypsies, Tramps and Thieves" in her concerts?
posted on January 25, 2004 12:22:19 PM new
I tend to agree with Bear, here. It's getting a bit ridiculous.
Just use the Merriam-Webster dictionary, http://www.merriam-webster.com/--it doesn't try tocensor what words you look at or use:
Main Entry: Gyp·sy
Pronunciation: 'jip-sE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural Gypsies
Etymology: by shortening & alteration from Egyptian
1 : a member of a traditionally itinerant people who originated in northern India and now live chiefly in south and southwest Asia, Europe, and No. America
2 : ROMANY 2
3 not capitalized : one that resembles a Gypsy; especially : WANDERER
Main Entry: Ro·ma·ny
Pronunciation: 'rä-m&-nE, 'rO-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural Romanies
Etymology: Romany romani, feminine of romano, adjective, Gypsy, from rom Gypsy man -- more at ROM
1 : GYPSY 1
2 : the Indo-Aryan language of the Gypsies
- Romany adjective
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on January 25, 2004 12:29:29 PM new
I just ask my children (around the age of the f.a.) whether they had heard "Eenie, meenie, minie." They both said yes and repeated it with "Catch a Tiger By His Toe."
When I told my son how I had learned it with the N word, he said "Gross!"
I am glad I quite using the word in early elementary.
I'm surprised that gypsy is not an acceptable word. I can remember first hearing about gypsies in Mississippi. There, they were very poor and traveled frequently as a group from place to place probably looking for work.
They remind me of the Amish with their own traditions -- apart from the mainstream.
posted on January 25, 2004 12:54:13 PM new
And, because of their poverty, they occasionally had to liberate some farmer's chickens so they were characterized in that state as thieves.
posted on January 25, 2004 01:34:21 PM new
I was surprised when I heard John Walsh make special mention that the term was derogatory.
I remember when they showed the video of that woman beating her kid in the parking lot a year or so ago, that they referred to her as a gypsy. So this must be something fairly recent?
Some gypsy bands that were in Canada a few years ago moved from town to town and got caught for shoplifting and then they found that they were here illegally.
I also think that everyone is getting too politally correct. BTW, there are lots of gypsy skirts listed on ebay.
posted on January 25, 2004 02:03:06 PM new
Gypsies are characters in literature...such as Mill on the Floss and Jane Eyre...Wuthering Heights... usually to represent the unconventional.
Stick around -- the true morons here are so ignorant they'll say anything and think they're spouting wisdom. Makes for hilarious exchanges!
