posted on February 12, 2004 09:19:46 PM new
Yes, you will certainly make Pat jealous in my cheetah skin bikini. But be sure to wear a flourescent orange hat if Gravid is in the area.
posted on February 12, 2004 09:24:35 PM new
Fenix03 says "Sky - I was just curious... do you ever have happy go lucky days of exteme and pointless silliness? "
well i am a pretty happy go lucky type of guy, and real easy to get along with so some say, but with what has been going on and from personal experiences knowing what war is like, i see life in a different matter, as for you Fenix, i really am not that concerned whether you agree with me or not, i know what truth is and what the bs is
it does not take a person with a PHD to figure out what is going on out there, this article like the other articles, are there for you to read, or not, it is you that will decide what you want to do with the information, if you want to be a ostrich, fine be one, but you have been told, and i know this much, when the shockwave does come, you will remember me, count on it.
posted on February 12, 2004 09:29:58 PM new
Absolutely, Rawbunzel! Just act like I do and everyone will be convinced immediately.
Who said I wanted YOU there, Pat? I said that after Prof got finished telling me how gorgeous I am, we would talk about what a bad person you are. Geez! Clean your monitor!
posted on February 12, 2004 09:35:59 PM new
Sounds nice. I do ride. But I'm allergic as hell to horses. Can't ride in a car with a saddle in the back even. Can't ride behind a horse in a buggy.
Dayglo hats do make a good aimpoint.
About the oil thingie. I don't expect to live long enough for a total freaking collapse. Sorry about you youngsters.
Maybe Bush should have just said -"We going to need the oil and we're going to go over there and kill the suckers and take it?"
Don't you think most people would go along?
posted on February 12, 2004 09:36:50 PM new
Oh, Sky, Fenix wasn't picking on you. Most of us who can read know what's on its way. From me to you, what I've found works best in terms of not shutting people down when I post "no way out" things is to offer a way out. No one here has yet explored (in a post) the two very viable unlimited resources of solar energy and wind power. Maybe tomorrow someone (you? ) will.
And also from me to you: the world ends every day. I would suggest that it's not so much a fear of the outside world coming to an end, but the world inside -- your world -- that you fear losing.
posted on February 12, 2004 09:43:37 PM new
" plsmith ", if you only knew what i have seen, i made my peace years ago
THREE DAYS OF THE CONDOR
But there is a deeper part of human nature which covers the planet in a sickly, light-sweet-crude blanket of denial. It is best exemplified from the closing lines of Sidney Pollack's 1975 Three Days of the Condor, perhaps the best spy movie ever made. As FTW has shown in recent stories – using declassified CIA documents – the CIA was well aware of Peak Oil in the mid 1970s. Three Days of the Condor took that awful truth and said then, what few in the post-9/11 world have had the courage to say. I can guarantee you that it is the overriding rationale in Dick Cheney's mind, in the mind of every senior member of the Bush administration, and in the mind of whomever it is that will be chosen as the 2004 Democratic Party nominee. Getting rid of Bush will not address the underlying causative factors of energy and money and any solution that does not address those issues will prove futile.
Turner (Robert Redford): "Do we have plans to invade the Middle East ?"
Higgins (Cliff Robertson): " Are you crazy?"
Turner: " Am I?"
Higgins: "Look, Turner…"
Turner: "Do we have plans?"
Higgins: "No. Absolutely not. We have games. That's all. We play games. What if? How many men? What would it take? Is there a cheaper way to destabilize a régime? That's what we're paid to do."
Turner: "Go on. So Atwood just took the game too seriously. He was really going to do it, wasn't he?”
Higgins: "It was a renegade operation. Atwood knew 54-12 would never authorize it. There was no way, not with the heat on the Company.”
Turner: "What if there hadn't been any heat? Supposing I hadn't stumbled on a plan? Say nobody had?"
Higgins: "Different ball game. The fact is there was nothing wrong with the plan. Oh, the plan was alright. The plan would have worked."
Turner: "Boy, what is it with you people? You think not getting caught in a lie is the same thing as telling the truth?"
Higgins: "No. It's simple economics. Today it's oil, right? In 10 or 15 years - food, Plutonium. And maybe even sooner. Now what do you think the people are gonna want us to do then?
Turner : " Ask them."
Higgins: "Not now - then. Ask them when they're running out. Ask them when there's no heat in their homes and they're cold. Ask them when their engines stop. Ask them when people who've never known hunger start going hungry. Do you want to know something? They won't want us to ask them. They'll just want us to get it for them."
posted on February 12, 2004 10:01:57 PM new
Okay, Gravid, I'm gonna pump you on Cold Fusion in a second but first I want to have another tete-a-tete with Sky.
Skylite, I've seen it all, I've read it all, I have exposed myself to all manner of religious prophesies, even. Really, I'm up on what you're up on and I know how you feel. But you're going to drive yourself crazy knowing all this sh!t if you don't find a way to balance it with living your own life, in your own skin, with your own sense of right and wrong, as best you can.
Did you ever see the movie, "Black Like Me?"
James Whitmore portrayed a white man who dyed his skin black, and then went forth into the world. He couldn't believe the discrimination and humiliations he suffered daily. During one scene in the film, he "loses it" in a coffee shop staffed by a black woman who is treated like sh!t by a white customer. She finally asks Whitmore's character how he has managed to survive all these years, as tightly-wound as he is.
Maybe you're fresh to all this inevitable-end-of-the-world stuff and maybe you're not; all I can say is, do what you feel is right to keep the world going but don't cheat yourself out of living your own life in the process...
Okay, Gravid. Cold Fusion. Explain it in carpentry terms...
posted on February 13, 2004 05:31:10 AM new
There are reactions that occur that they can't explain. It's just that there is no theoretical model yet to describe it in a way that allows you to straight foreward engineer it.
There is excess heat and helium produced and they are still spending huge sums of money on it and widening the conditions under which it occurs. When they have a model that explains why it happens then they can proceed to eliminate the various unknowns that interfere.
But don't expect the fellow who has spent 30 years and billions of dollars trying to contain the sun on earth in a magnetic bottle get all happy if some dofus does it in a canning jar.
There are hundreds of papers being released every year describing the experiments being done but most of them are not published in the well known journels because it became a prejudged given that it does not work. So they are basically holding their hands over their ears and going Lalalalalalalala anytime somebody makes a small advance.
The politics of science are such that all the people in their neat little compartmented classifications object like hell if someone outside their specialty intrudes. In this case it was physical chemists intruding on the domain of physicists.
When they threatened the billions of dollars of funding for things like hot fusion they have not been able to make work given decades the experts the politicians trust basically said "They are all frauds and humbugs don't waste any money on them. See we really consider them funny."
I suspect many of the current scientists will go to their grave swearing it is fraud even if they are carried there in a cold fusion powered vehicle. The doctors in Pasteur's day were the same refusing to accept his theories even when they were demonstrated to work. The human mind does not accept change well.
But if there is terrible need the devices will find funds even if the most reputable scientists scream it is a waste of funds they could be using.
Take a look at the work that is being done - A lot in Japan and Europe - and shared. Note the first papar mentioned in the following site is from a fellow funded by Misubishi. Do you think them the sort to foolishly throw their money away on junk science? The results were confirmed at Osaka U. and at one of Japan's preeminant laboratories, Japan Atomic Energy Research Institute (JAERI).
posted on February 13, 2004 06:10:21 AM newSince the 1960's I have wondered why we have not come up with alternative energy solutions..perhaps there aren't any that are viable.
Sure there are. Wind farms is one. But right now, in CA, in an area northeast of San Francisco the windmill farms are facing lawsuits because the mills are being accused of killing the birds. The environmentalists will keep that source of energy from becoming an alternative. Then the rich, democrats on the east coast, don't want the windmill farms because they destroy the beauty of their views of the sea.
posted on February 13, 2004 10:32:44 AM new
Sky - Pat is right. My question was not meant to to persecute you or in disagreement of you. It was simply a question of curiosity. Do you dwell in the "doom" of so many of your post or do you find the time to just enjoy life on face value.
Btw - thanks for sticking aroung on this thread.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on February 13, 2004 10:36:27 AM new
Then they should sue every big building with glass windows because they kill birds daily.
My wife has a beautiful 3rd floor corner office with a wrap around view. The buzzards come and roost outside and they are so dumb they think the reflection is another buzzard. We watched once as one kept making aggressive displays and finally attacked his reflection in the glass.
He knocked himself sensless and we went and looked and he was laying on his back with his wings spread open on the ledge a floor down.
Fortunately he regained conscieousness ok.
posted on February 13, 2004 05:06:57 PM new
Gravid, I gave that link my full attention for exactly a page and a half. I wish I had your ability to comprehend scientific research data; unfortunately, I realized I was hopelessly lost when several words and processes I've never even heard of were mentioned, and it quickly dawned on me that I'd have to know certain things before I could begin to understand them. Besides, I like your explanations of how things work much better...
Linda, you've gotta be one of the few people on earth who sees a windmill and thinks "liberal". Seems to me fairly easy modifications could be made to house windmill blades in a screen that wouldn't impinge on airflow while also protecting the birdies.
On the other hand, we routinely risk whole coastlines importing/transporting crude oil in tankers. I'd rather lose a few (what are they that's being killed? Do you know? ) birds than maintain our dependence on oil -- foreign or otherwise.
posted on February 13, 2004 05:53:56 PM new
When they pipe water through the big turbines for hydroelectric power it minces the fish like a food processor too. But that was before they worried about that sort of thing.
Migrating birds like geese are hardest hit because they fly high and fast and just don't expect something to be sticking up there to run into.
posted on February 13, 2004 05:58:27 PM new
When I get back from vacation I am going to try making my own solar cells. If it works out I'll let you guys know how well they work and sell the plans on eBay. They will be semiconductor based but all materials that you can buy locally. Copper/glass/paper/antifreeze/solder/epoxy resin.
posted on February 13, 2004 06:30:34 PM new
Linda, Wind farms are a good start but we need something to replace oil and wind is not enough. If everyone had a windmill in their yard and solar panels it would help but it would not be enough.
Cold fusion is an interesting idea. I hope science can make it work.
Thank you Krafty...are we getting drunk again this evening??
posted on February 13, 2004 06:33:16 PM new
Gravid
Cold fusion, anyone that can come with that power source would rule the world.
I have been watching some of the work in japan via tv show dealing with science.
This would be a clean source. It will be many years if they can perfect this at all to work in a viable manner for the market place.
Would also make one hell of a weapon. The power of the sun is a great way to describe this.
posted on February 13, 2004 06:37:42 PM newLinda, you've gotta be one of the few people on earth who sees a windmill and thinks "liberal".
who sees a windmill and thinks environmentalists...who 9 out of 10 times are ultra-liberals, extremists to the point of preventing the alternative sources for energy they so often scream about. The east coast liberals, like Ted Kennedy who didn't want windmill farms in 'his backyard'.
Seems to me fairly easy modifications could be made to house windmill blades in a screen that wouldn't impinge on airflow while also protecting the birdies. Well you might just suggest that to the environmentalists that are suing the land owners where the windmills are located. They're on the way to Stockton, Discovery Bay, etc. Shut down right now because the extremists are saying endangered birds are dying in the blades, and the coyotes are being drawn to the area to eat the dead prey.
And no, I don't know which endangered birds are the issue. My youngest son lives in Discovery Bay [the Delta] and he was mentioning the issue to me as we drove over the hwy, through the pass there.
posted on February 13, 2004 06:45:37 PM newIf everyone had a windmill in their yard and solar panels it would help but it would not be enough.
Robin - That's a BIG part of the problem, imo. Too much consumption. We American's need/want/demand all the latest appliances then can't figure out how to supply our energy needs.
A windmill was the ONLY source of electricity on my Grandparents farm. They lived/survived. We're just consuming too much and most are unwilling to cut back.
We want cheap energy but each source has it's price/drawbacks.
posted on February 13, 2004 07:10:51 PM newwho sees a windmill and thinksenvironmentalists...who 9 out of 10 times are ultra-liberals, extremists to the point of preventing the alternative sources for energy they so often scream about.
This I can agree with. Its called the NIMBY
[Not In My Backyard] These people are nuts! They want the use of a freeway, malls, power, but as long as its not on their street.
What? We have to pay for these services? No way! Its our right.
California must have the most whacky bunch of them. Must have something to do with the weather.
posted on February 13, 2004 07:12:31 PM new
Rawbunzel, I've been pretending to be drunk since noon. How about you? You know, if we all made an effort to pretend we drank, we could use the real booze to heat our homes.
posted on February 13, 2004 07:17:07 PM new
Sure a windmill will supply enough electricity for a farm or a home,and I wish I had one.But oil is what runs this country..oil is in almost every thing.We as Americans DO over consume.[one of the many reasons people in other countries can't stand us] People really should be driving cars that get at least 30 miles to a gallon instead of cars that get 8-13 mpg.It wouldn't solvet he problem but at least it would show a little effort on the part of Americans.Most Americans make no effort at all to conserve energy.We are spoiled.
I would love to get off the grid.
Krafty , I only started to pretend to be drunk a couple of hours ago. I have some catching up to do.
All religions are equally right
[ edited by rawbunzel on Feb 13, 2004 07:20 PM ]
posted on February 14, 2004 05:37:45 PM new
Most of the NIMBYs I notice, come from the more affluent areas.
Industry always end up in the less affluent regions.
Just as the most vocal pro-war ‘elite’ don’t tend to be the ones putting their lives on the line in times of war.
NOMBAs (Not On My Big A$$)
Same ones that say there is no such thing as a global weather problem, or depletion of natural resources.
posted on February 14, 2004 08:38:55 PM new
One things for sure is that the natural resources won't last forever. At some point something has gotta give.
Just look around whatever city you live in, at all the consumption. Then multiply it by how many cities are in just the USA, it's mindboggling at how much we consume. Fossil fuels alone consumed by the cars that we drive is astronomical. Just how many dinosaurs were there??
skylite
I read the article and I found it to be real interesting, however, there wasn't much that was said that I allready didn't know about. It just put it into another perspective or way of thinking about the coming global energy shortage problems.
Someone once said; Life is a big sh!t sandwhich and we are all going to have to take a bite. As the first line of the article states; "Deal with reality, or reality will deal with you" I agree.
posted on February 14, 2004 11:51:31 PM new
I agree you need to deal with reality.
But the vast majority of people view the world through the fairy tale lens of religion.
Almost all terrorism and war is solidly based on the promotion of religeous standards. As long as people are willing to kill for Allah or Christ we have a problem Houston.
posted on February 15, 2004 07:39:14 AM new
More big blackouts likely, experts agree
February 13, 2004
BY BRAD FOSS
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Six months after the nation's worst blackout, experts say the electric grid is still vulnerable to widespread outages because many of the problems that contributed to the massive failure have not been resolved.
"Without significant investment in the transmission system, we're all going to face another blackout. It's inevitable," according to Jonathan Smidt, an associate in the energy group of Kohlberg Kravis Roberts & Co., a private equity firm.
Among the few tangible steps taken to strengthen the grid, according to several experts, are the intense scrutiny of the root causes and better intra-regional communication between power providers and grid operators.
However, a repeat of the havoc wreaked on Aug. 14, when outages in Ohio rapidly spread through southeast Michigan, six other states and Canada, remains plausible so long as the industry remains polarized by regional interests and competing ideas about market design, both of which inhibit cooperation, said Lawrence Makovich, senior director at Cambridge Energy Research Associates.
Stalled energy legislation, which is being attached to a massive transportation bill now before the Senate, is intended to clear up some of these issues, but Makovich said it could still take the industry several years to make the requisite changes.
"Setting the goals is only half the battle," he said, adding that one of the stickiest issues will be determining who picks up the tab for upgrading the power lines and computer networks that are the technological backbone of the grid.
Nora Brownell, a commissioner at the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, said power providers need not wait for an energy bill to be passed before taking action.
New hardware and software, better employee training and aggressive vegetation management "could be implemented today" and would be useful regardless of what types of new federal rules are enacted, she said.
To spur investment in new transmission, experts argue, utilities need to be able to pass along more of the costs to consumers. And some say power providers should be allowed performance-based rewards for reliability.
It remains unclear whether the enforcement of reliability standards will be in the hands of the government or the industry.
"We've been grappling with the issue of how to maintain reliability as the market evolves," said Eugene McGrath, chairman and chief executive of Consolidated Edison Inc.
If there's any silver lining in the events of Aug. 14, McGrath said, it is that the areas of vulnerability are better known. That, in itself, reduces the risk of another cascading blackout, he said.
Originally built to handle the flow of electricity from monopolistic utilities serving a local customer base, the nation's power grid has been expanded over the decades to handle power transactions that crisscross the continent, giving generators the opportunity to sell their juice for the highest possible price.
Moreover, the power industry is only partially deregulated, with producers selling electricity in robust wholesale markets and most utilities receiving a fixed rate of return for the costs of transmission and distribution. That has led to significant investments in generation, where the profit potential is highest, while corporate spending on the grid has lagged.
And because the grid has been interconnected piece by piece over decades, Makovich said there are many loose ends, particularly in the Midwest, where power providers rely on different grid operators -- a source of confusion on Aug. 14, according to the findings of a binational commission investigating the event.
posted on February 15, 2004 08:09:21 AM new
This may be our only hope. Harness even 1% of the solar energy that the moon receives, microwave it to the Earth, and we have "cheap" power.
-----------------------------------------
Could someone make these URL's linkable? (thanks!)
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/DailyNews/lunarpower020422.html
---------------------------------
I especially liked this part...
"Criswell also points out that the moon rocks that received so much publicity weren't just souvenirs. During the 1970s and 1980s, between half a billion and a billion dollars was spent to analyze the rocks collected during the six Apollo moon landings. Analyses revealed an abundance of silicon, magnesium, aluminum, and titanium—the basic material required for building solar cells."
---------------------------------
Sounds like the way to go to me. At least it's constructive and not a total "gloom and doom" scenario. We all know the fossil fuels are on the way out. We need to conserve them for plastics and other uses and not burn them up.
posted on February 15, 2004 08:24:12 AM new
think of those hi rise buildings ,you have to break the windows to get fresh air and walking up 30 floors will be good exercise,save money on healthclub membership.
we will all be eating less,burning more calories .
-sig file -------the lobster in the boiling pot of water who tries to prevent the others from climbing out.
