posted on February 14, 2004 02:09:47 PM new
I didn't see your message right above mine, Linda. I hired young teens for years so I'm quite aware of how they think and act. These were all good teens with top grades but they still partied and had sex. Their parents and schools taught them about abstinence and safe sex and none of them got pregnant. No, they didn't always make the wisest choices but age had a lot to do with it. They are responsible adults now and any parent would be very proud of them.
posted on February 14, 2004 02:32:35 PM new
"Teens today are bombarded with TV ads, movies, music videos, books and magazines all about sex. To expose them to all of this and then tell them "Don't do it" just doesn't work.
"They should be taught abstinence along with safe sex as well as the dangers of smoking, drugs, and drinking and driving as well as everything else to try to make them responsible and informed."
Yeah, Kiara.
So, what are we supposed to think when our president hands a sop to conservatives by advocating funding for abstinence-only programs? That he's lacking in understanding of the grave consequences posed by sexual activity amongst the sexually uneducated? Or that he's simply trying to woo a constituency that grows increasingly wary of his ability to govern, and couldn't care less how his attempts to garner or retain votes affects real lives?
Edited to add: Still waiting for you to show me proof that "young girls started dying" from using MAP, Linda...
posted on February 14, 2004 02:39:18 PM new
To try and teach only "don't do the nasty," mary and you will be a good girl is not dealing with the real world.
All human beings are by nature sexual creatures. Blame mother nature.
You have to teach them all aspects of sex and hope they make a wise choice.
They are after all a bunch of horny teenagers or young adults.
The funding should be combined with knowledge about birth control and safe sex. The last thing the country needs is more kids having kids.
Other wise this is a waste of money. I think this is just another vote getter same as lets give the illegals a drivers license and green card.
posted on February 14, 2004 03:14:10 PM new
Pat, I get the impression that President Bush is uninformed on many issues. He does have daughters and perhaps they were taught sexual abstinence. I wonder if they are still virgins?
I think he's catering to the masses who will think that sexual abstinence is wonderful, the ones that think it will work, the ones who have lost touch with the way the world really is. He will also get the votes from the religious sector who think that this is an easy solution to teenagers having (or not having) sex.
Many people can only think one way, they never stop long enough to explore the pros and cons of an issue. Those are the people that he is targeting for his votes and there are enough of them out there that he may very well be elected again. But then I find that most politicians are much the same.
posted on February 14, 2004 03:25:39 PM new
Actually, Kiara, at one point in his presidency GW Bush supported MAP. He'd been briefed that its widespread availability could prevent as many as 800,000 abortions in the U.S.A. each year, and thwart some 1,700,000 unwanted pregnancies in the U.S.A. each year. He thought that was a good compromise -- no outright abortions, far fewer unwanted children coming into this world by having never even been conceived --but the far-right Fundies said, "No no no, Georgie. You shape up or we'll ship you out!"
posted on February 14, 2004 04:34:58 PM new
I suspect, Helen, that all she's been able to find in the way of substantiation of her claim are the idiotic ( -as in, medically/scientifically refuted) rants of conservative women's group leader, Wendy Wright...
posted on February 14, 2004 05:20:25 PM newHERITAGE FDN STUDY SHOWS U.S. SPENDING ON "SAFE SEX" & ABSTINENCE 12 to 1
The financial balance sheet between abstinence and safe-sex programs within the US shows that the government spends "$12 to promote contraception for every dollar spent to encourage abstinence." [Culture & Cosmos: Volume 1, Number 24, 20Jan04; 21Jan04, Abstinence Clearinghouse]
In his State of the Union message, President Bush wants a doubling of abstinence funding to $270 million/year. During the 2004 State of the Union Address, Pres Bush declared a funding increase from $135 million annually to $270 million annually to be spent on abstinence education: "Each year, about three million teenagers contract STDs that can harm them, or kill them, or prevent them from ever becoming parents," stated President Bush. "In my budget, I propose a grassroots campaign to help inform families about these medical risks. We will double Federal funding for abstinence programs, so schools can teach this fact of life: Abstinence for young people is the only certain way to avoid sexually transmitted diseases. Decisions children make now can affect their health and character for the rest of their lives. All of us - parents, schools, government - must work together to counter the negative influence of the culture, and to send the right messages to our children."
The initiatives would be financed in part by shifting some funds from within the federal welfare budget.
Representative Lee Terry (R-NE) and 29 House colleagues, sent a letter to President Bush supporting his plan to increase abstinence-until-marriage education funds. "This is an issue that doesn't get the attention it deserves. People can be uncomfortable discussing sex-education and STDs, but ignoring it and hoping it goes away isn't going to help," Terry said. "We must focus on teaching our kids that the only way to completely avoid STDs is through abstinence."
end/
------
It doesn't appear, to me, the funding for offering all the facts to our children was fairly balanced. With more funds being allotted it will be more equal. The children will make their own decisions, and they may be life altering decisions, but at least they'll be informed.
-----
Pat - You already mentioned one....Holly Patterson. It was determined that her death was caused by an incomplete abortion....using the morning-after-pill. There is much disagreement to the safety of these MAPs. Even the FDA says the effect of repeated use is unknown - so we're really just guinea pigs..just as those of us who were the first users of the HTR have been...and the reports on these studies change daily. I have no objection to any ADULT woman who wish to put herself in that position.
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No reason to have scared teens able to purchase these megadoses of harmones, off the counter, without adult supervision, imo. I do objected strongly to underaged girls making those same choices. Especially when they need to see a doctor just to get regular doses of birth control pills.
posted on February 14, 2004 05:33:44 PM new
Linda, do you even read my posts? I never mentioned any "Holly Patterson" ...
And just because you've managed to italicize and bold what The (right-wing) Heritage Foundation has to say about abstinence, you're still not off the hook when it comes to providing PROOF that MAP is harmful, although you do get an A for the day in UBB proficiency.
Read what Bush himself said about increasing the funding for abstinence-only education and stop relying on the Fundies as your sole source of "news". Expand your Google Search capabilities beyond finding only those websites that include the words "Christian" and "Republican" for a start...
posted on February 14, 2004 06:02:19 PM new
Pat - The girl who's death you said was caused by toxic shock...that's Holly.
And since you and helen are both neither idiots nor dumb as rocks I think you're quite capable of finding the reported deaths due to MAPs for yourselves. Wouldn't matter what I'd post you'd still have some sarcastic comment to make about it.
The Heritage Foundation quoted Bush....and they gave their source for the very unequal funding that was being given to all except teaching abstinence. Those are report facts...not right-wing theory....no matter how much you'd like to imply differently.
Hard for me to understand why those on the left have an agenda that agrues the side of not giving our children ALL the facts on the issues, so they can make an informed decision.
Re-elect President Bush!!
posted on February 14, 2004 06:10:40 PM new
Linda, I never mentioned anyone dying of toxic shock. Polish your rocks, please
And let's be clear: I don't have "an agenda" aimed at denying young people every available option when it comes to sex. My incredulity arose when first Bush announced spending twice as much on abstinence-only curricula and hours later the FDA Commissioner got on the air to say that MAP "needed more study".
If you see those two events as "balanced", it just goes to show how unbalanced you are...
posted on February 14, 2004 06:20:28 PM newagenda that argues the side of not giving our children ALL the facts on the issues, so they can make an informed decision.
Im all in favor of all the facts to be out there. Im pretty well sure that everyone else thinks that also.
BTW..Im not left or right.
By nature I really trust none of them.
posted on February 14, 2004 07:21:15 PM new
That's the truth, twelve. They like the 12 to 1 spending much better since it favors their views. Doesn't matter that others want it more even/fair....no doesn't fit their agenda.
posted on February 16, 2004 04:50:32 AM new
Linda, you opened the bad word there, "Parents"...
God forbid they actually have to perform that resposibility with their children...
part of the problem we have with schools, parents want them to do all the rearing, and then b*tch when the child is lead astray by the liberals running the show.
posted on February 16, 2004 06:22:46 AM new
Just for the record, the truth about Holly Patterson is that she took the morning after pill when she was seven months pregnant and did not seek medical assistance when she became ill. It was a tragic story but does not relate to Linda's remark that "several young girls started dying of MAP".
Linda has still not explained that remark although we've asked her to do so several times.
posted on February 16, 2004 08:03:09 AM new
Pharmacists who won't dispense morning-after pill fired
Associated Press
DENTON - Eckerd Corp. has fired three pharmacists who declined to fill an
emergency contraception prescription for a woman who had been raped, one of
the pharmacists said Wednesday.
Gene Herr, 33, of Denton said he and two co-workers were fired on Jan. 29,
six days after refusing to fill the prescription.
Eckerd has declined to comment on their employment status. Joan Gallagher,
the vice president of communications for Largo, Fla.-based Eckerd only would
say the company had taken the appropriate disciplinary action.
Herr said he declined to fill the prescription for the so-called
"morning-after pill" because he believes it could have killed the embryo if
the woman already had conceived. Though he had declined five or six times in
the past to fill such prescriptions, it was the first time he had been
handed one for a rape victim, he said.
"I went in the back room and briefly prayed about it," said Herr, who had
worked for Eckerd for five years. "I actually called my pastor at Denton
Bible Church and asked him what he thought about it."
The two other pharmacists who were present at the time also declined to fill
the prescription. Herr would not name them.
The rape victim had the prescription filled at a nearby pharmacy.
Gallagher said Eckerd's employment manual says pharmacists are not allowed
to opt out of filling a prescription for religious, moral or ethical
reasons.
Herr said he did not know about that policy until his supervisors questioned
him about it shortly before he was fired.
"In my mind if I agree to work for someone knowing that that's their policy,
then I should submit to that policy. But I didn't even know about it," he
said.
He declined to discuss his future plans.
Morning-after pills are higher doses of the hormones in regular birth
control pills and have been sold under the brand names Plan B and Preven
since 1998.
Taken within 72 hours of unprotected sexual intercourse, the pills are at
least 75 percent effective at preventing pregnancy. They work by preventing
ovulation or fertilization of an egg. If fertilization already has occurred,
they prevent the egg from implanting into the uterus -- the medical
definition of pregnancy.
Herr said he's disappointed but not angry or bitter.
"I'm a Christian. I feel like God gave me an opportunity to, I guess, make a
stand for what is right," Herr said. "He's gonna take care of me either
way."
