posted on February 28, 2004 08:03:52 AM new
I have a sweet dog that was diagnosed with kidney failure 2 months ago. The vet thought she was a gonner at that time. She has bounced back to a point the dr can't believe. Vet told me to look online to find ringers lactate IV there, as well as aluminum hydroxide. It is supposedly cheaper than I can get from them. I have to give her 2 IV's a day to help her improve and keep her from going downhill. The bills are totally out of sight now.
Please, if you know of a reliable online resource, post it here. I am in dire straights.
Thanks so much from me, my little boy and from Molly, our doggie
posted on February 28, 2004 04:55:55 PM new
I saw your post over at the eBay site so I thought I'd post over here instead. I'm so sorry to hear about your doggie. I can certainly feel for you as my little poodle is a wonderful companion to me. I can't suggest where to find the meds you're looking for, other than Petmeds.com maybe, but you may want to take a look at the following site that discusses kidney failure, diet and other factors that contribute to better health for the kidneys in dogs.
posted on February 28, 2004 05:39:53 PM new
I'm sorry I can't help you with a source for your doggie's meds but I can tell you that several years ago we had a mixed breed dog that was without doubt the sweetest, most loving dog who ever lived. When she was 13 her kidneys began to fail and my dear husband gave her IV's twice a day for months. The vet told us that it added 6 months to her life before she became too sick to eat or enjoy anything. It was hard for my husband to do day after day but I know in retrospect that it we were the ones who gained the most from having her with us for the additional time.
We are thinking about you and wishing for the best for you and your dog.
-----o----o----o----o----o----o----o----o
“The illiterate of the future will be the person ignorant of the use of the camera as well as of the pen.”
Maholy-Nagy, Vision in Motion, 1947
posted on February 28, 2004 10:51:33 PM new
Thanks everyone. I don't know how old she is as I got her from the pound as an adult dog.
I just started giving her 2 IV's /day. I hope I don't have to do this forever. She spend 72 hours in the vets office. They thought by giving her fluids IV for a constant period of time that her kidney values would improve. (they did) I brought her home friday afternoon. So far I have had only 1 day of the 2 X/day fluid routine. I don't know how I am going to do that in the morning before I go to work. I guess I'll have to get up at 4am to do it. She was doing pretty well and gaining weight (she had lost 17 of her 50 pounds) and then went down hill within a 24 hour period. That's what landed her in the hospital. at $15 a bag, I don't know how much more i can afford these fluids. My credit card is almost max'ed for the hospital stays. Pet insurance is used up. No time for ebay, even if I wanted to list anything.
I have tried to coax her to eat all day. She used to be what I call a garbage gut. She ate everything: zuccini, potatoes, celery, tomatoes, bread, carrots, as well as all meats and cereals. I used to plant baby lettuce in the veggie garden to see her behind me pulling it up and eatting it dirt and all. Now the only thing she wants to eat is chicken. WHEW! this is so stressful. My little boy has been such a help. I hate to have him go through this with me but I guess this is life lesson for him to learn. We are supporting each other through this. 'Ain't easy that's for darn sure.
paloma:
You can try these people. I have ordered out of their catalog many times including the IV fluid you need. I believe you can buy the set ups & needles too. I also buy vaccines from them, I have 8 cats & 2 dogs & it saves me hundreds of dollars a year.
You will need a prescription from your doctor, which you probably already have.
I believe you can fax it, but am not sure.
The procedure your doing is called peritoneal dialysis & it is certainly indicated in kidney failure.
I know how you feel, have been through this myself, it is not easy, but keep up doing whatever you can as long as you can.
posted on February 28, 2004 11:07:24 PM new
paloma
No need to get up way ahead of time, it really shouldn't take very long, are you giving her about 200cc twice a day. It doesn't have to actually drip in, you can open it all the way & let it run in fairly fast. I've seen it done at the vets & they certainly don't let it drip, they do it very quickly. The thing is to get the fluid in so she can absorbe it.
posted on February 28, 2004 11:20:07 PM new
I have to give 350 - 400 ML at a time. I hang the IV up on and "S" hook in the hallway ontop of an opened Ebay "stuff to sell" box, run the line down the side and the dog sits on her "blankey" below it. The tubing I have drips but fast. It takes me about 20 minutes to set up and get it finished. I have to sit with her for a few minutes afterwards to press the spot, otherwise the fluid comes out. Oh my, If I do this on Monday, I have to be ready to put her outside 3o minutes later to go to relieve herself. I think I am in a pickle.
posted on February 28, 2004 11:57:16 PM new
I should have realized it would be more that 200cc, I am thinking of how much you would give a cat.
Twenty minutes does sound about right.
When the kidneys are not filtering blood properly the urine is fairly clear so accidents are not a big major problem as far odor is concerned.
You can't help some things, maybe fix her a bed in the kitchen & put down some papers.
Did the doctor put her on a low protein diet,it's the breakdown of protein that is so toxic in the blood & a major job of the kidneys is to filter that out.
Her creatine level (blood test) will show how things are going.
I know all about the cost, been there too, & I always think, would I rather have the money or my pet & my pet wins everytime. Money is very replacable, my pets are not.
I think you are so wonderful that you are doing everything you can.
posted on February 29, 2004 12:08:30 AM new
mcjane, you don't know how much I appreciate this support. Here I sit at the computer with tears in my eyes, the dog, Molly, is laying on her blanket at my feet. My little boy is in his bed sleeping. This is all so hard. It's so emotionally draining.
yes, they did put her on a low protein diet (canned food) which she won't touch so I have been trying to mix up my own concoctions. She stopped eatting totally and vomiting every time she tried to eat so I took her to the doctor's last monday. Her values had skyrocketed. That is why she was in the hospital with IV fluids instead of sub Q fluids.
If anyone is going through the same thing I just found a site (wouldn't you know it, I find it today and have been looking for one for months) It tells it like it is. Even found some recipes I may be able to use with the doctor's ok
posted on February 29, 2004 01:05:32 AM new
paloma, I know how much you appreciate & need support & I know how important it is. I also know your desparation to find anyone or anything that will give you help or encouragement to save Molly. I feel your tears too & absolutely your pain. I'm glad you found a site where you can talk to others. It does help so use it. It wasn't too long ago that there was no one to talk to, you just suffered alone. Now there is the internet thank God & so many people who want to help or even just listen.
I am not surprised she won't eat the lo pro food. I never had any luck with any of those prescription diets. I think if she is not eating right now, at this point I would give her whatever she wants. It's not good when they stop eating. I had to resort to that myself. Better to stay lo pro, but sometimes you just can't & you do what you have to do. Will she drink pedialyte, at least you can get some electrolytes in her.
I wonder if you would send me your email address.
Mine is [email protected]
I am so glad you posted on EO, I haven't been to the RT for over a year & I would never have seen your post.
Just remember your are not alone, I'm here & so are many others. We all want to help.
posted on February 29, 2004 03:33:37 AM new
Not meaning to sound nasty, but it sounds to me like the dog is in alot of discomfort and even with it maybe extending the life for 6 mos, couldn't it possibly be more humane to have the dog put down?
I have a dog myself, so I don't say that lightly..
posted on February 29, 2004 05:57:58 AM new
In some situations, that is the most loving thing to do...especially if the dog is generally feeling sick and unable to eat.
Just a couple of days ago, I saw a story on CNN about a dog who was almost skinned alive in an auto accident. With heroic efforts he is being kept alive but the owners of the dog are losing their home in order to pay the medical bills. The poor dog looked miserable.
Some dogs recover from kidney failure after the first treatment and live for several years so I wish your dog good luck, paloma.
posted on February 29, 2004 07:11:11 AM new
Hi paloma91,
My dog was diagnosed with Kidney failure several years ago. Althought I never had to do IV's I did have to do the special diet. They suggested the canned diet also but she turned her nose up at it (just like all dogs) and refused to eat it. I did alot of research on diets and what I found is that good quality protein is crucial. You should feed a diet that contains high quality protein which means less residue - it's the residue that the kidneys have to work harder to excrete.
High quality protein sources include chicken, turkey, eggs, cottage cheese, yogurt - also give a well cooked grain like white rice (you can cook enough in one go to last a few days & keep it in the fridge) green vegetables & raw finely grated carrot mixed in too.
Also, supplements that help are Cod Liver oil - a capsule daily in food, this lubricates kidney tissue. Vit. C - give 10mg per 10Ib bodyweight 2 x daily - this acidifies the urine. You could also give a good quality pet multivitamin that includes B complex & a good form of calcium eg. chelated calcium - but AVOID supplements that contain Phosphorus.
Baking soda - give a bit less than a quarter teaspoon daily - this replenishes ions which kidneys depend on for part of their function.
You might want to consult with your vet about a different "home cooked" diet but my dog is still going strong 2 years later.
You & your pet are in my prayers! Good luck!
~Shamoy~
OH! And I forgot to add that my dog just turned 14 years old on January 27th.
[ edited by Shamoy on Feb 29, 2004 07:19 AM ]
posted on February 29, 2004 08:14:31 AM new
That's very interesting Shamoy. Protein is usually the first food eliminated from the diet of a dog with kidney failure.
posted on February 29, 2004 08:34:46 AM new
Hi Helenjw,
Yeah, I thought that was interesting too (about the protein) but at the time I had nothing to lose so I gave it a shot!
My dog is doing TERRIFIC considering her age and as long as I can give her a good quality of life then I will continue to cook her this diet. It's working for me.....I thought maybe it would help paloma91 also.
I guess the secret is: high quality protein which means less residue. Who knows!
~Shamoy~
posted on February 29, 2004 08:59:49 AM new
Great, Shamoy
The first food that your dog wouldn't eat may have been low protien. If they won't eat it, what good is it. Lol.
You must be doing something right to have a 14 year old dog still in good shape.
posted on February 29, 2004 09:10:22 AM new
This is an interesting thread. I never thought that a discussion like this would be in the round table. When I come here it is all politics of which I never discuss, but this is a very helpful thread. Good Luck to you Paloma. Mcjane has a wealth of knowledge for you and I know you will find the time and strength to help your little dog.
posted on February 29, 2004 09:40:18 AM new
OH You really don't know how much this is helping me. Really, thanks so very much. There is still so much life in her. You say the word "WALK" she crooks her head to one side and litterally runs to the front door standing by her leash. Wagging her tail all the while.
I will talk to the vet tomorrow about the diet. Interestly, I bake a chicken, pull the meat off the bones and save that to feed her, then I boil the bones with an onion, garlic, celery (she loves celery) and ginger. I cool down the the broth made from the bones and defat it. By that time it's g elatin. I mix the chicken meat with steamed zuccini and she has been eatting it with rice. Now she won't eat the rice
The vet told me to give her pasta in place of the rice. she won't eat that either. When I mix it all together she picks out the zuccini and chicken and leaves the pasta.
The other day I made egg and rice with zuccini (steammed) saute'd red , yellow peppers and she loved it but as of yesterday, she is not liking the rice.
I even tried her old junk food dog food. Pedigree. Don't think it has too much nutritional value to it. She ate some of it just before bed.
Last time after I posted here, I went to bed, she followed and She slept on my bed on her blanket. Good thing it was there she threw up the pedigree. I think I will stay away from canned dog food for awhile and stick to making her food.
I'll talk to the vet tomorrow and see if she agrees to your special diet. It's worth a try, I am at my wits end.
posted on February 29, 2004 10:17:32 AM new
Paloma
You sound so much better today that it made my day.
I must warn you though that you cannot give Molly onions in any form.
Onions in dogs & cats are toxic & cause a condition called hemolytic anemia (Heinz anemia) (prematurely destroyed red blood cells)
You also don't want to use Tylenol (acetominophen) or any topical medication containing Benzocain, they cause the same thing.
posted on February 29, 2004 10:28:17 AM new
OOPs, no onions. I didnt know that. Well, it was 1/2 red onion in the pot when I made the broth. I hope it's ok. I won't do it again. 2 cloves of garlic and small piece of ginger. I told the vet the contents of the broth I was making. she never said a word!!!! I did sign up for the k9kidney group and I have sent you an email, mcjane.
Yes, I do feel better today thanks to mcjane and everyone else. I really felt totally alone trying to handle this thing.
Shamoy, I have printed out your recipe and will drop it by the vet's office tomorrow. Hopefully I can start using it tomorrow.
posted on February 29, 2004 12:21:43 PM new
Yep, mcjane is right about onion and the Tylenol. If you have to use anything for pain for a pet use baby aspirin. St. Joseph’s or the no name brand equivalent will work.
posted on February 29, 2004 12:24:00 PM new
paloma
Unfortunately one of the hardest things to find is a really great vet. This is one of the reasons I learn all I can about what I need to know when one of my pets is sick.
And I ask lots of questions.
Last August I noticed one of my cats having trouble when eating dried food, she was swallowing it whole. A sign that she may need dental work. I took her to an oral surgeon & he said she had an abscessed tooth & removed it.
Around December I noticed some swelling on her face & she stopped eating so back to the doctor. There was a tumor on her gum where the tooth was, they removed as much as they could & then did a biopsy. It was cancer, chemotherapy was started, but it's too late, the cancer was too far advanced. The surgeon who removed the tumor is the same one who removed her tooth, and is part of the group at the hospital, he felt bad about his misdiagnosis & I felt sick about it.
One good thing after the surgery my cat started eating again & she is still eating & that is why she is still with me. She sits on my lap, goes outside, purrs & still does the usual things that cats do. But she has no chance at all & her days are numbered because a doctor made a mistake. I will keep her as long as I can & as long as she is comfortable & doing the normal things cats do.
This is one time I didn't ask enough questions & also assumed what was wrong was a simple abscessed tooth. I made a mistake.
Don't make the same mistake, question everything & everybody. You do sound like you have a very good doctor, but take no chances.
Another thing about onions, often people will buy baby food for a sick animal. Do not buy Gerber, it has onion powder & again, it's toxic.
posted on February 29, 2004 02:23:02 PM new
You see, I didn't know enough to ask the questions until today. Thank goodness I have you all.
Well, she finally ate a bunch. Chicken, zuccini, chicken broth, chicken liver. I gave the aluminum hydroxide and her the IV. Kind of weird. This big dog tried to jump in my lap as I sat at the computer typing. Never done that before. I held her in my lap for awhile (quite large for a lap dog but what the hey) She finally settled down on the blanket next to my chair and is now snoring as I type.
Mcjane asked me to post a foto of Molly. Here it is
posted on February 29, 2004 10:41:02 PM new
So glad to hear that Molly is doing better
It's funny that youmention she tried tocrawl into your lap today: a couple of months ago my greyhound, Merlin, had a bad time: a bad slice on his back followed the next day by a dislocated hip on the way home from the vet. He, too, decided he was now a lap dog in need of a lot of cuddling! He weighs 90 lbs, mind you. Actually, , it's not so bad--when I'm sitting in my recliner, he comes up and crawls into my lap, curling up between my knees. His weight isn't all that noticable for some reason...and he is great for leaning abookonwhile reading!
******
Censorship, like charity, should begin at home; but unlike charity, it should end there --Clare Booth Luce
posted on March 2, 2004 04:27:12 PM new
Can anyone recommend an online Pet Pharmacy or regular pharmany that they have used that carry: Epogen 2000 uniters per ml and metoclopramide (10 mg tabs) Vet is willing to call in a perscription for it
[ edited by paloma91 on Feb 29, 2004 02:57 PM ]
, it's not so bad--when I'm sitting in my recliner, he comes up and crawls into my lap, curling up between my knees. His weight isn't all that noticable for some reason...and he is great for leaning abookonwhile reading!