posted on April 28, 2001 11:10:53 AM new
Mr. Damon, you continue to sing the same tune Then go home to you nice house, and large paycheck.
And in the mean time, I am struggling to make ends meet, to help keep up with my bills, I sell a meager amount of items through Ebay, and Paypal comes and seizes money from my account for an item I shipped three months ago. To me Paypal is the thieves, not the customer who decided to have their merchandise, and their money back as well.
$157.00 may seem like nothing to you, and your NAZI organization, but to me that is grocery money, another month of electricity, or water running through my faucets.
I didn't choose Paypal, I was forced to use your dirty services, because I lost several customers who stated that they would rather not bid if I don't accept Paypal.
When do PP accounts become negative in value? Am I safe if I still haven't inputted my checking and bank account in my PP profile? Please help me on this one because my account got restricted. BTW I just signed up recently and I have an unverified account with $0 balance. Thanks!!!
Bryan
[ edited by vince316 on Apr 28, 2001 09:27 PM ]
posted on April 30, 2001 10:00:49 AM new
vince316,
Your best bet is to refrain from using Paypal services. As a seller you would have absolutely no rights, and they can seize funds from your account, no matter the circumstance, or if you are right or not.
This guy Paypal Damon will say otherwise, and I most likely would have believed him, until it happened to me. Also, take a look at the growing number of posts of bad Paypal expieriences.
posted on May 1, 2001 10:59:16 AM new
I can tell you fact mr paypaldamon, chargebacks are not the only problems with paypal and their nazi tactics. Fact is playing GOD seems to be a paypal mentality not confined to chargebacks. My acount with paypal paid for hundreds of transactions over many months....99 percent cash transfers totalling thousands and thousands of dollars, NO CREDIT CARDS. Then one day last month pay pal SEIZED over $1300 dollars they had just withdrawn from our checking account, sent my payees cancelllation notices and will not return emails or phone calls about exactly what the hell is going on. Evasive, vague, and playing stupid seems to be the order of the day. And yeah, I ALSO heard the people that know why it was frozen are in another building and cant be contacted. WHAT?? All I get is a read the form letter and comply when I call. ALL YOU want is my bank account statement and my drivers license number to verify who I am after months and hundreds of completed trasactions using the same account, in the same way, in similar amounts....and I say again...with no problems. This is unacceptable and a horrible way to reward a long standing customer. You send me YOUR bank account statement MR PAYPALDAMON. Thats not much to ask.....?? Of course you can trust me to keep it all in confidence......You can call clubmans statements about paypal possibly illegal, but their seems to be a pattern of pay pal being totally unresponsive to CUSTOMERS. He's not the only one posting. I feel really good about being a premier (PAYING)customer since day one when I could have rode free for a long time.... SEIZING assets of long term customers for vague bogus "suspicious activities" is what is illegal. I faxed information to them and have called them. I cant wait to join or instigate a big class action lawsuit that destroys pay pal with the same cavalier attitude that they take destroying people that are their CUSTOMERS. They take an awfully cavalier approach to screwing with folks reputations. As you know, three NPBS on ebay gets you booted. PAY PAL has been holding money for weeks now that was intended and sent to pay EBAY sellers. Guess what happens now mr paypaldamon? Damage has been done....know what that means? My lawyer does. Holding folks money and ruining their reputation on ebay is not quite the thing a long time, big no-troublemaker user should expect. Its wrong, & they are not sorry. I have gotten no response from them for weeks for any email I send them WHILE they continue to hold my money illegally while asking for information they have no business of asking for. It may seem a joke to you and them, but screwing with folks lives is SERIOUS business. Funny how these seizures always come with no warning AFTER paypal gets some money in the account that is NOT thiers. Its just as easy to freeze or warn BEFORE the money gets seized. Pay pal using extortionist tactics is NOT right. Im sorry. Long term customers deserve better. Remember, theres no charge backs even in this. ALL CASH on a customer you have made money off of for hundreds of PAYS. No one there even WILL ANSWER ANY questions of why, and no one can put me through to the people that know. POOR. POOR. and criminal too, in my humble little opinion. Wonder what a jury would think? That just the facts.
[ edited by seemomgocrazy on May 13, 2001 09:09 PM ]
posted on May 1, 2001 11:37:00 AM new
YES, I am having problems with PayPal. I will not get into the details (as they are essentially similar to everybody elses'), except to say that despite continued e-mails, I have been unable to get ahold of anybody at Paypal, and they've never contacted me.
How can I get involved in this lawsuit? I don't have as much money as others tied up, but it's the principle that counts.
posted on May 3, 2001 02:09:26 PM new
So the posts continue.
If we have this many people who are AuctionWatch users having trouble with Paypal, I wonder how many of those who are not members of auction watch with similar expiriences?
[ edited by homefurnishings on May 3, 2001 02:15 PM ]
posted on May 3, 2001 03:19:17 PM new
hey homefurnishings, considering that you really have to dig to find forums like these, I'd guess we are the tip of the iceberg. Small money losers probably just get frustrated and forget it. Ive been contacted by several folks already and the whole thing is just sad. Whats worse is its so unbelievable as to sound as just that to normal folks who havnt felt the "sting" yet. When you ask even a supervisor why the account is frozen, they ask you what does the email say? Not much. Either they really dont know or theyre not saying. They REALLY DO SAY THE PEOPLE THAT KNOW ABOUT IT ARE IN ANOTHER BUILDING AND CANT BE CONTACTED. Strike me down if thats not exactly what they say. I know it sounds like alien sightings or something. I havnt heard a peep out of these folks in two weeks, the only thing before that was a standard form letter stating how to verify a bank account, (I was verified months ago) and to send in your DL and checking account statement. Really personalized. No reasonable person would send this in, but I bet most are like me and extortionized into it and do it anyway. Whats worse, doesnt matter, I still havnt heard a peep. You know what neat though? Theyll still trust me enough to accept payments to the account or let me add funds to it. WOW! THANKS!
posted on May 10, 2001 01:34:31 AM new
Dear Mr. Paypal Damon,
Would you kindly consider "escalating" my case so that the restriction on my account will be lifted? I don't sell much really (haven't sold anything in about a year). My sister was sending me about 100 dollars a month, which I transferred to my Bank account regularly. As with others, I was sent a "restriction" notice (I think perhaps triggerred by my changing email address?). As with others, I was angry at the demand for drivers license and bank and utility statements, but I did send them. Now, several weeks later, I still have no answer, and $120 that I fear I will never be able to withdraw.
posted on May 10, 2001 07:04:40 AM new
YES YES YES!!! Lets start a class action lawsuit. Short story, I had almost 50 trasactions in a row that came from my checking accout, then out of the blue they tried 5 times to get the money from my savings account incuring a $25 fee each time. Now they refuse to refund my money or allow me to close the account until I comply with them.
So count me in, feel free to contact me about this! [email protected]
posted on May 10, 2001 11:58:29 AM new
Hi fishbone,
It does sound like you used the INSTANT ACH feature and this initiates a bank transfer for the user, but makes the funds available immediately (instead of a 3-5 business day wait) by securing it against the credit card on file. If you have your debit card on file as your credit card, the holds are placed against that and it holds it from the account.
I can explain this feature in more detail if needed, but users do need to check the options they are making on the send money screen.
I am sorry for the frustration you may have experienced.
posted on May 10, 2001 01:06:50 PM new
Pay-enemy sez...
>>I can explain this feature in more detail if needed, but users do need to check the
options they are making on the send money screen.
>>I am sorry for the frustration you may have experienced.
If PayPal were honestly sorry for anything, they would refund the $125 charges they incured for me instead of pointing the finger (not the same one I would use pointing at them) at me.
More importantly, why did they keep trying time and time again after they got a NSF?
Why did all the previuos transactions go through fine when I checked each option the same way EVERY time??
Why is PayPal the most hated service now when not too long ago you were the best?
So if you really want to do something, GIVE ME BACK MY $125. Lift the BS restrictions so I can cancel my account. I have bills to pay.
<{{{=<
[ edited by fishbone on May 10, 2001 01:08 PM ]
Referring to the Paypal rep as Pay-enemy is highly insulting and you are being given a very strong warning that to continue to post in this vein will compromise your posting privileges.
Company Reps and AW employees are afforded the same courtesy as any other member of the AuctionWatch.com community. Please have another look at the Community Guidelines if you need a refresher.
posted on May 10, 2001 03:02:53 PM new
Just to clarify - I was referring to PayPal (IE -Pay-enemy) in my previous post as a "company" not to any one particular person.
I am not one to blame the wait staff for burning my steak. I apologize for the confusion.
posted on May 11, 2001 07:52:33 AM new
Time for me to add my Paypal story. I have been a member for about 2 years. I have seen many sellers post NO PAYPAL. Now I see why. With no indication as to why, my account now sits restricted. Only $504 dollars is in there at least. What could have occured to force Paypal to do this? I was in China last week and logged on to see if a simple $10 payment came in and boom, the next day "restricted account" appeared. Along came a email >>>>Your account has been restricted due to possible fraudulent activity. In
order to lift this restriction, you will need to fax the following
information to (402) 935-2045.
1. A copy of this email.
2. A copy of your current driver's license.
3. A copy of a recent credit card statement.
4. A copy of a recent bank statement.
5. A copy of a recent utility bill.<<<<<<
Well, I am not faxing anything to them because there are too many who have and still there is no resolution for them. What makes me think it will be resolved for me? I called Paypal support yesterday and got a very rude female that just kept saying, " sorry , please read the auto email and follow the directions". I dont think so miss. I have had this account a very long time to all the sudden become a risk. Please email me if you have information as to how I can resolve this problem with Paypal. Thanks "Benchshooter" on Ebay for 4 years.
posted on May 11, 2001 08:22:47 AM new
benchshooter:
While I am no great fan of paypal, as my other posts in the auction watch partner services - paypal section would show, yours is one of those "good news, bad news" situations. On the one hand, it is annoying to have your account restricted. On the other hand, if a foreign hacker got into your account, wouldn't you want him stopped? How is Paypal supposed to know that YOU were in China? All they know is that an attempt was made to access an American account from a foreign country. For YOUR protection, they restricted access.
As for their requests for your identity, maybe it's a bit over the top but this is for your protection and theirs.
Now for the bad news: most of the folks in your situation have reported weeks or months of frustration as paypal just ignores them even after all the requested info has been sent. I would suggest that you:
-post your story in its own thread in the paypal section
-email [email protected] and have him look into it
-post an update every week until the problem has been resolved (and please post when it has been resolved. here we mostly get the bad news and very little good news)
I think you will find that this will be resolved faster, easier and cheaper than a lawsuit.
posted on May 11, 2001 09:00:20 AM new
So when or where is the lawsuit going to happen!?! As much wasted time has passed, Paypal gains much $$$ off of the interest on our money, plus the amount they took in the 1st place!!!
I see no need to cushion the facts and make things seem not so bad, unless your on paypal.com's payroll and benefit from the robbery that has been taking place by this corporate thief.
posted on May 11, 2001 10:02:34 AM new
I too am waiting for the lawsuit to be filed.
And to Joice,
*With all due respect*, I believe that the best place for this discussion is NOT in private email, but here in public where all can see just how Paypal runs their business. So that the public can be informed of the practices of paypal.
I believe that the vast majority of us work for a living and can not afford to loose money right and left to paypal (or anyone for that matter) Something needs to be done to stop this.
The sheer number of discussions here wil attest to the brevity of the situation.
posted on May 11, 2001 11:17:58 AM new
Hi benchshooter,
Please feel free to contact me at [email protected]. I may ask you to fax the documentation directly to me and it does sound like the information is needed (it could be a case of information not matching on the account,etc).
posted on May 11, 2001 01:09:00 PM new
Auction Watch MEMBERS!!!!!!!
You are not going to believe this. My restriction was lifted in less than 12 hours of my first posting here. What do I do? Paypal actually cared in my case what was wrong. I am a very good customer I am sure, but why is so many not resolved? I am floored to say the least, but thank you paypal damon if you are the one that resolved this.
posted on May 11, 2001 01:06:47 PM new
Auction Watch MEMBERS!!!!!!!
You are not going to believe this. My restriction was lifted in less than 12 hours of my first posting here. What do I do? Paypal actually cared in my case what was wrong. I am a very good customer I am sure, but why is so many not resolved? I am floored to say the least, but thank you paypal damon if you are the one that resolved this.
Thanks. Most items can be cleared quickly if I have the documentation to support it. No case can't be resolved and it does require some cooperation from the user to clear.
I am out here to make sure that outstanding customer issues are resolved that were not (just one of my many, many roles).
posted on May 13, 2001 09:01:44 PM new
I posted this tonight and only afterwords opened a very appreciated letter from Damon who took time out of his obviously busy schedule to read and reply to what I sent him. Its nice to know someone does care, lets hope some good comes out of these posts. Looks like for benchman the rewards came quick. I will leave the rest as I wrote it earlier tonight. Folks that take the time to complain usually care, and I do. It takes time I really dont have to post these and since my problem is basically gone. Anything I bother to post is done so in the hopes that things will improve and innocent folks can get the resolution they need quickly. This of course is NOT going to help much for folks that some idiot backcharges fraudulently, but thats another story. NOW the post.......................Glad to see you got your problem solved so fast. Finding Damon was your only saving grace though I bet. I HOPE this means Paypal is finally taking seizing folks money seriously and we can all breathe easier and be freinds,.... Though your earlier post sounded like you got the same non helpful supervisor on the phone I got (or her sister). (they should give these folks ID numbers we can reference) I'm afraid I think this string, izzy and yismeal and Damon making a big effort were a bigger factor than paypal rethinking policy etc. I can only hope paypal is finally taking folks lives seriously. If so, maybe I'll erase all my ugly mad posts and continue making money for them. Your prior post about supervisor attitude does not erase my skepticism. I steered a lot of folks to pay pal and I will be indirectly to blame if they experience what I have. The problem here is, Damon has authority, a will to handle problems, and intelligence......Damon is NOT the person you are going to normally deal with. He helped me and Im grateful, BUT by the time you find this string, youve usually already been hurt, insulted, and wasted a LOT of time as well. My account was locked for almost a month, even though I protestingly complied with sending confidential information to god knows where or who. My gut feeling for you Loyde, and me, is without Damon we both are still being ignored and wasting our time with normal channels. Hope this has/ or will improve. I suffered several negatives, (these will Forever and ever stay with me for all to see---thanks "pal" and I only deflected several NPB's and getting booted off ebay, by sending extra "bribe" money for folks wait. A couple hundred bucks total. All My loss. What I got from paypal was a "thanks for your patience".......that in itself is awfully presumptious.....Hmmmm.. Whats worse is knowing most of these folks think you are some kind of crackpot with some secret problems. Paypal aint gonna send them an official letter telling em otherwise, like the fine pay cancellation notices that make sellers so happy. I didnt agree to send bank statements, etc, when I signed up, therefore if they want bank statements etc for me to continue to be on board, its only right to give ME the option of whether or not I want to comply with DEMANDS that were never part of the bargain. Give me the option, comply or be gone. NOT...."we've got your money and if you ever want to see it again.......this is what you WILL do. If this sounds like a hostage story, it is, only this time its your money not your kid.......Good Customers should EXPECT better from such a big company. This is what I sent Damon and again, I wouldnt want his job, my hats off to him. I think its reasonable. What about you? ---------------------Patience is a thing folks have for companies that make mistakes, take them seriously, and correct them expediently. Paypal acts as if doing this and making folks jump through hoops to get these cleared up is just a small inconvenience. It is potentially a life changing thing. Some folks might lose their house, spouse, or even commit suicide over similar actions. Me calling and talking to people there who obviously know less than I do about whats going on is CRAZY. And remember, all I was doing was using your service in EXACTLY the same way I had used it for hundreds of transactions. If you restrict accounts I should expect no less than:
1: A clear conveyance to me of EXACTLY why my money has been seized. I mean exactly. People have the RIGHT to know why you are playing GOD. Not saying is my cue youve got an programmer there (in his BMW or Ferrari) playing god with cute data cues....I mean .....er..peoples lives. ANYONE could have looked at my account for five seconds and known better, but no one could ...or would. This is the problem, arbitrarily using cues to seize folks money is dangerous to CUSTOMERS. Not correcting obvious mistakes INSTANTLY when contacted is outrageous.
2: Exactly what I need to do to get it unrestricted and why. I'll never think asking for my bank statement is normal or legal, nor have any of probably 50 non mad paypal customers Ive discussed this with. Not one said he would do it
3: To know EXACTLY how long it will take to get it unrestricted if I comply
and I should add: FIXING IT IMMEDIATELY THE FIRST TIME I SEND THE REQUIRED INFO IN. Why should I have to remind and refax? The sets I sent (before yours) were each carefully marked with the account name and all identifying information on each of them.
4: To know EXACTLY what happens if I choose not to comply.
5: To be able to talk to someone THE FIRST time who is intelligent, trained, and has authority to fix any problems I have with Paypal. Why in hell's name should I have to talk to a supervisor that asks me what the vague form letter says? I called THEM to find out. Put it where it can be accessed, even if this means just saying "you are a crook and youre never getting your money". At least I dont have to log on 5 times a day thinking any time now this nightmare will be over. Any less is just wasting my time AND your employees. Give your employees authority unless its a $25,000 account....you go play golf instead of dealing with frustrated folks that now HATE paypal. You guys think I have nothing better to do than contact FTC, BBB, lawyers, and the state of california? PAYPAL MAKES folks do this.
6: For Paypal to design their software to restrict flagged accounts on the front end of transfers, not the back end. I do enough computer work, and a bit of programming too, to know that designing this flagging and seizures AFTER paypal has the money is...well..... It can be made to work before OR after. You think Im making a fraudulent transfer? Cancel it. Easy. Lets face it, at the level folks would have to go through, a lot of these accounts will never ever be cleared up......and Mr Thiel says thanks, Im sure. You gotta communicate when you seize folks money, Damon. I STILL never received any answer to any email I sent paypal after the first one. Not one reply. You are the only person there that made a move, I guess no one else there gets it.
[ edited by seemomgocrazy on May 13, 2001 09:18 PM ]
[ edited by seemomgocrazy on May 13, 2001 10:01 PM ]
posted on May 14, 2001 09:11:37 AM new
RESULTS!!
I guess if you want some results from Paypal, call the BBB (www.bbb.org) and file a complaint. All my complaints to PP in phone or email were largely ingnored by PP. Late last week I filed a complaint against them. I come in this AM and VOILA! They have lifted the restrictions on my account (now closed) and I got an email from a real live person from PP.
The following is the email from PP and the response I sent back to them...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> RE: BBB complaint # 295461
>
> I have reviewed your PayPal account and the issue regarding your BBB
> complaint and would like to take this opportunity to update you on the
> situation that you reported and offer further explanation concerning the
> issue.
>
> I have contacted your credit union and spoke with *****, a credit union
> representative, regarding this situation. When you added your bank account
> to the PayPal system you entered a bank routing number and your account
> number. At your credit union they state that your checking and savings
> account have the same account number. The reason for your funds to come
> from one source before and another source now would need to be discussed
> with your credit union directly. What I can confirm is that PayPal has on
> each and every occasion sent the request on your behalf to the same routing
> and account number. I have released the restriction on your account
> concerning the unauthorized transaction report we received from your bank
> concerning these transactions.
>
> Please contact your local bank at 1-***-***-**** concerning this issue as I
> attempted to discuss this with them and was instructed to have you contact
> them directly.
>
> If you have any further questions regarding PayPal please feel free to
> contact myself directly at 402-935-2200.
>
> Chad E.
> Resolutions Mgr.
Thanks Chad. I wish that PayPal were more responsive to their customers. Instead they rely on auto response sytems that do not do the job. People who take the time to send an email do not want some canned generic BS response. They want real answers from real people.
In my case (as well as so MANY others), all my pleas to Paypal via phone and email were basically ignored or brushed off. It took a complaint to the BBB before I got a response and action for Paypal. I find it pathetic that I had to do that before I could get this taken care of.
I have cancelled my account and refuse to use PayPal in any form. I will continue to encourage others to do the same in all auctions I run. So far it has not been a difficult task in the least.
posted on May 16, 2001 05:29:51 AM new
Verified Seller Status Worthless
I was recently defrauded of $225 through PayPal. The seller was verified so I foolishly thought that I was protected. I followed all the rules in filing a customer fraud complaint. 3 months later I get an e-mail stating that PayPal was unable to recover funds on my behalf. NO SH*T! If it takes 3 months to investigate *plus* waiting a month before you're even allowed to file fraud protection no wonder.
My opinion is that verified seller status protects nobody but PayPal. My request for the sellers contact info has been ignored. My advice is to use a REPUTABLE payment service such as BILLPOINT. They were slow to market but I guess that's because they wanted to do things right.
I think that PAYING WITH PAYPAL IS LESS SAFE THAN SENDING CASH THROUGH THE MAIL.
posted on May 17, 2001 12:28:42 PM new
>>I think that PAYING WITH PAYPAL IS LESS SAFE THAN SENDING CASH THROUGH THE MAIL
At least when you send cash you where the money went to. PP acts as if they are doing you a favor.
I *STRONGLY* reccomend that you file a complaint with the BBB.org. I filed against PP and within days they unrestricted my account so I could tell them to go jump in a lake (paraphrased). I closed my account immediately and have convinced at least a dozen others to do the same.
posted on May 23, 2001 12:10:08 AM new
I would be willing to add my experience to a lawsuit. Paypal has restricted my account with just under $400 in it. I don't know why. They don't respond. They do request faxes of utility records, bank records, drivers license. However they aren't satisfied with the quality of the their fax output, yet won't offer alternatives to submitting this documentation. It's only been 3 weeks as of this writing, but it's apparant they have no intention of working with me faster then they see fit, if ever.
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