posted on June 14, 2004 10:48:16 AM new
He's already shown in past posts that he hates just about anyone who isn't just like him. Reminds me of that old Twilight Zone episode about the man who couldn't stand other people and wishes they were all just like himself. His wish comes true, and he finds out just what a miserable, unsufferable person he really is and wishes everything back. Guess we can start calling Twelve Archibald Beechcroft.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 14, 2004 08:27:08 PM new
Wow... it would be nice... I just love how liberals think that every thing they do is right and everything everyone else does is wrong... not so different afterall bunni... just different side of the line...
posted on June 14, 2004 09:47:12 PM newnot so different afterall bunni.
Oh, VERY different, Twelve. You resort to name calling (sometimes quite foul names, too), smearing, maligning the patriotism of those who disagree with you, and inviting said folks to leave the country.
Whereas I simply disagree with you.
You can't seem to tolerate the presence or existance of those you dislike or disagree with.
Whereas I am able to think rationally about & tolerate the existance of those I disagree with quite well.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 15, 2004 06:49:45 AM new
Twelvepole, this comment is not directed to you or the topic of this thread but to the subject of tolerance that Bunni mentioned.
Bunnicula,
I am finding that I have so little tolerance for some people here that I am unable to read their comments any more. I am unable to respect their bigotry, greed, ignorance and hypocrisy. Tolerance is defined as the ability to allow without prohibiting or opposing. How can we honestly say that we are tolerant of such beliefs? And as we look at the state of the world today is it wise to be tolerant toward such positions that are a danger to our country and to the world. Would you, for example be tolerant toward a fascist movement in the U.S.?
tolerate from American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language.
1. To allow without prohibiting or opposing; permit. 2. To recognize and respect (the rights, beliefs, or practices of others). 3. To put up with; endure.
posted on June 15, 2004 07:15:14 AM new
And by the way, my comment was not intended to be critical of your good comment. I've always admired your ability to reason without regard to name calling and respond to the topic rather than the personality.
posted on June 15, 2004 08:14:40 AM new
Excellent comments by both Bunni and Helen and I couldn't agree more.
Lately I've just been skimming most threads and haven't been posting as much here, partly because I've discovered the great outdoors once again and partly because I get angry whenever I read some of the narrow-minded comments made by some of the people here. It makes me want to scream out and ask them who the hell they think they are that they want to force their beliefs on everyone else. I keep telling myself that I should be more tolerant of them but sometimes the ignorance just gets to me and I know if I stay here too long I'll end up just wasting my time with futile arguments.
Would you, for example be tolerant toward a fascist movement in the U.S.?
fascist
somebody who supports or advocates a system of government characterized by dictatorship, centralized control of private enterprise, repression of all opposition, and extreme nationalism
This is how I view some people here. They show absolutely no tolerance for others at all and want to repress our comments here on this board and that's exactly how they want their country to be too.
Oh so offering solutions to problems is beyond you?
Solutions such as you've offered, twelve? Throw gays overboard, ship them to another country? Just get everyone out of your life and your country and off this board if they don't agree with your point of view? In fact you've mentioned before that you don't even want others from other countries making comments here. Stop and think about it, is that the way you really want to see this Vendio forum and your country, with no diversity and just people all of one mindset? Scary!
posted on June 15, 2004 08:35:25 AM new
Nicely stated, Kiara.
Re-defeat Bush
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June is Gay Pride Month
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All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others.
Change is constant. The history of mankind is about change. One set of beliefs is pushed aside by a new set. The old order is swept away by the new. If people become attached to the old order, they see their best interest in defending it. They become the losers. They become the old order and in turn are vulnerable. People who belong to the new order are winners.
James A Belaco & Ralph C. Stayer
posted on June 15, 2004 12:39:49 PM newWould you, for example be tolerant toward a fascist movement in the U.S.?
Yes, I would and am. Understand that I am using the world "tolerant" in the sense of its third definition as you posted it: " 3. To put up with; endure." We have free speech in this country. For everyone & not just the people we agree with.
This doesn't mean that we can't act on or state our own beliefs.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 15, 2004 12:41:25 PM new
Linda says,
"Free speech is still allowed in this country. Opposing views can still be expressed."
You again are so CORRECT on that matter. That's why we are having these debates. However, what you fail to mention is that your position is to EXCLUDE. And that TOLERANCE INCLUDES EVERYONE.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 15, 2004 12:53:33 PM new
Dang it, kiara, just as I was profiling you as one of the left-wing PCers, you had to post that YOU GET IT. That really makes my day! Just to irritate you, do you understand what you said?
Passing kiara a bright orange vest, "Here wear this during hunting season in the great outdoors."
Added, "Turn it inside out for the camo in here."
______________
You know...the best way to defeat a liberal is to let them speak.
[ edited by parklane64 on Jun 15, 2004 01:14 PM ]
posted on June 15, 2004 04:22:13 PM new
You know yeager, that's what I like about being an American. I can choose to tolerate what I wish and not what I don't. I get to use my Constitutional right of free speech to say what I wish - *YOU* don't get to choose for me.
posted on June 15, 2004 06:58:53 PM new
Thanks for your answer, bunnicula.
I understand and agree with your meaning as far as tolerance applies to free speech. I was thinking of the first and second definition and it's application toward those who are considered a danger to our society. My focus was on how do we treat or tolerate the intolerant such as fundamentalists and fascists who threaten our society.
posted on June 15, 2004 08:51:20 PM new
Well, I know what I said and what I mean but I don't always say it correctly so probably some don't have a clue what I mean.
My family and friends and associates have different religious and political views but none are telling each other that they are anti-Canadian or anti-American or that things have to be done according to "their" God even though we sometimes have heated debates and disagree.
I'm not gay and I don't have any close gay friends but some of my associates are gay and everyone I know seems quite accepting of everyone else. So I don’t understand why some here are extremely upset about it and why they feel like they do.
Yes, when I read some of the comments here with all the bigotry and ignorance towards other people and towards other countries and cultures it does make me angry at times and I feel like telling them to cram it up their azzes. I also wonder how many others are growing so extreme in their thinking and if that’s why this world is getting to be such a mess.
Helen says: My focus was on how do we treat or tolerate the intolerant such as fundamentalists and fascists who threaten our society.
Is it PC to sit back and let someone be a bigot and show intolerance towards others because it’s freedom of speech or is it better to finally stand up and tell them to shove it?
posted on June 15, 2004 09:51:00 PM new
Linda says,
You know yeager, that's what I like about being an American. I can choose to tolerate what I wish and not what I don't. I get to use my Constitutional right of free speech to say what I wish - *YOU* don't get to choose for me.
You are CORRECT again Linda! That is the same Constitutional right that others use. I believe that I have pointed this out to you in the past. The KKK and the Neo Nazis also enjoy it when they deiced who and what they approve of, and who and what they like to hate.
I will give you some credit. Even though you and I haven't agreed on these issues, I don't recall that you have ever used a verbal personal attack towards anybody of the opposing viewpoint. Unlike some others here.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
posted on June 15, 2004 11:09:43 PM new
I do agree with that twelve. They accuse others for the exact behavior they display.
They just don't see it in themselves....even when some have tried to point it out.
It's my opinion that they think any response to their statements is 'trying to run them off the board'....rather than just seeing it as other's think differently....and are also entitled to state their opinions.
posted on June 16, 2004 12:07:41 AM newThey accuse others for the exact behavior they display.
Linda, I don’t think you have any clue what I am saying. I have never accused anyone of being anti-American because of his or her views like you and twelvepole have. I have never asked anyone to leave their country because of their views or who they are.
Anyone and everyone that has a different political opinion or outlook than you do are lumped into your “leftie” book with total disregard and intolerance for their individuality and beliefs.
You've shown ignorance and intolerance towards Canada and all other countries but your own and others here have called you a bigot because of it. You tout Bush's godly vision of America and on occasion I've asked you to explain your views but never have I told you to change them.
You and twelvepole say because I don't agree with Bush’s policies or the war in Iraq that I am not supporting the troops and you claim I am anti-American. And you've gone out of your way to spread that propaganda each and every chance you've had.
Am I supposed to keep my mouth shut and show tolerance for someone when they make false claims on a public board just because it’s freedom of speech? If the false claims are about me I have a choice to speak up and correct them or I have a choice to remain silent and risk that others may think it's the truth or I have the choice to leave and not interact with those that do that to me.
posted on June 16, 2004 12:48:12 AM new
Kiara - It wasn't that long ago that you repeatedly told me how calm, cool and collected you *always* are - nothing upsets you.
Well....you've been loosing your cool a lot lately. You have also suggest some posters here....who don't agree with you...need to 'get help'. Maybe you need to consider that for yourself. Maybe not.
*I was responding to twelve.* And telling him I see it the same way he does - because I do.
I have repeatedly asked you to put me on ignore when you have made personal attacks on me because you don't like what my opinion was...and you've refused to do so.
I have chosen to ignore your statements to me but you still continue.
Your choice....but don't expect me to stop posting something because you don't like it. I'm not here to please you. And if you wish to have my respect...you'll have to start showing some to me. If you don't....that's fine too...just expect the same consideration in return because I'm tired of your little snide remarks to me.
I have repeatedly said I call those who views I believe lean left - lefties. And I will continue to do so. I'm a rightie.....and PROUD of it.
Maybe you need to start realizing that many people in this world are and refer to others as socialists....communists...supporters of Marxism....fascists, etc. And there are people who support these belief systems. They are real....they DO exist. They are not people who support Capitalism as MY country does.
As you have said here in the past you are free to say what you wish, well so am I. So is everyone else....NOT just you.
I go out of my way to not be rude to others and to work at only addressing the topic...helen is my exception. But I'm really tired of your constant harrassment when I call things as I see them or share my view/opinions.
You don't like it - use your ignore button....or grow up and accept that the world doesn't see things the same way you or I do. It's a normal part of living. And that's the way it should be....we aren't drones...we're all individuals and are all entitled to say what we wish.
You always seem to be harping at kiara about the fact that this is YOUR country. If I am wrong, please correct me. It seems that Kiara is from Canada. Either way here is something that I would like to share with you and others I think that excluding people is not the correct thing to do.
As I have said before, I live on the Michigan/Ontario border. There is something quite noticeable when you go to Canada, or when certain Canadians come here to Michigan. What I am talking about is that fact that blacks in Canada are not treated, in my belief, as second class citizens. When you hear them speak, they do not sound like an uneducated share cropper form Mississippi. That is, they don't be talking like theys nevar ben in a skool. That last sentence is not intended to be racist in any way, but for demonstration purposes only.
I think the reason for that is the the Canadians treat people fairly and very differently.
True Americans do not exclude anybody. They recognize that everyone should have the same rights. Bigotry, intolerance and hatred are cancers of the mind.
[ edited by yeager on Jun 16, 2004 07:03 AM ]
posted on June 16, 2004 07:11:19 AM new
Linda, Your fanatical nationalistic viewpoint and attacks on Canada along with others is anti-American. When did Canada become our enemy? A couple of other posters called your posts hysterical last year and now you are again making this place unpleasant. I sincerely hope that you will consider relaxing the spiteful fervor with which you support your narrow agenda. Otherwise, I fear that more and more people will find discussions here intolerable.
Kiara is one of the most considerate, thoughtful, impressive and level headed posters that I have encountered here or anywhere else. She has remarkable tact and diplomacy even while facing your venomous attacks. Are your constant attacks in her direction an effort to remove a formidable anti-Bush poster?
If you do manage to reduce the posting here or cause someone to leave don't consider it a victory.
posted on June 16, 2004 07:11:37 AM new
Deserve?
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 16, 2004 07:15:45 AM newKiara is one of the most considerate, thoughtful, impressive and level headed posters that I have encountered here or anywhere else
Now that was funny Helen... you have anymore one liners..
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on June 16, 2004 07:18:20 AM new
\De*serve"\ (d[-e]*z[~e]rv", v. t. [imp. & p. p.
{Deserved}; p. pr. & vb. n. {Deserving}.] [OF. deservir,
desservir, to merit, L. deservire to serve zealously, be
devoted to; de- + servire to serve. See {Serve}.]
1. To earn by service; to be worthy of (something due, either
good or evil); to merit; to be entitled to; as, the
laborer deserves his wages; a work of value deserves
praise.
God exacteth of thee less than thine iniquity
deserveth. --Job xi. 6.
John Gay deserved to be a favorite. --Thackeray.
Encouragement is not held out to things that deserve
reprehension. --Burke.
2. To serve; to treat; to benefit. [Obs.]
A man that hath So well deserved me. --Massinger.
\De*serve"\ (d[-e]*z[~e]rv", v. i.
To be worthy of recompense; -- usually with ill or with well.
, v. t. [imp. & p. p.