posted on June 14, 2004 06:45:08 PM new
reamond - Would you like to share exactly what law, in the state of CA forces students to say the pledge.
A federal law was passed that no student had to say the pledge who doesn't want to.
Without finding the Federal Law myself....I've
taken this from a recent ABC article about the court case involving the Pledge. "students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge".
posted on June 14, 2004 07:13:29 PM new
reamond - posted on June 14, 2004 05:43:47 PM
Under California law the children must attend school and they must say the pledge including the phrase "under god".
[i]Writing the first concurring opinion, Rehnquist said, "The Constitution only requires that schoolchildren be entitled to abstain from the (pledge) ceremony if they chose to do so.
To give the parent of such a child a sort of 'heckler's veto' over a patriotic ceremony willingly participated in by other students, simply because the Pledge of Allegiance contains the descriptive phrase 'under God,' is an unwarranted extension of the Establishment Clause."
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posted on June 14, 2004 08:07:46 PM new
reamond, you were the same one that said that nedow would win, last time we discussed this...
I think it will be a long time before it gets back to the court, if it ever does... when it does I think the court will rule in favor of the pledge... you already have 3 that say it should be ok to leave it there, actually 4 because I do think sacalia will sit in if this ever makes it back to the USSC...
posted on June 15, 2004 12:49:21 AM new
Just one point no one has addressed:
I have no children and still could sue for removal of the phrase. I pay school taxes and do have a say in what happens in schools. Public schools are just that ...public.
From Linda,"Parents must re-inforce their own beliefs to their own children and hope they 'take hold'."
Yes, and that's why "under god" could, and should, be taken out of the pledge ...religion should be taught at home, not in a PUBLIC school.
posted on June 15, 2004 06:31:25 AM new
crowfarm, I need a good laugh... please go ahead with your suit against a public school...
It would not be heard on the exact basis Mr. Nedow's case was not heard... not legal standing... if what you said were true, then they would of heard the case without thought of his daughter...
Unless you attend, work or go to public school you really have no say what goes on there.
But by all means bring it up to your local school board and see what they have to say about it...
edited to add: It would be interesting to know how much it cost nedow to lose his case...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Gay marriage is wrong!
[ edited by Twelvepole on Jun 15, 2004 06:32 AM ]
posted on June 15, 2004 08:43:14 AM new
No, Twelvepole, you're wrong.I have the responsibility of paying taxes, some of which supports schools...I should have a say in how my taxes are spent (at least that's part of the American dream and I do mean dream). I believe it is our responsibility to monitor how our taxes are spent.
But I never said I wanted to bring suit, just that I could. I won't because there is so much more absolute BS being taught in our schools that "under god" is just the tip of the iceberg.
I also realize I can't change the world so I just work on the things a little closer to home I can change.
posted on June 15, 2004 08:54:29 AM new
crowfarm - Anyone 'can' bring a suit - anytime - anywhere. That doesn't mean it will be heard or not thrown out. Newdow didn't have standing....nor would you.
On the pledge - my position is that during the time the 'under God in our pledge WAS a forced practice....I did support it as I did requiring the pledge, in whole, be said. I always felt if you didn't want to pledge your allegience to this country, then you should live elsewhere....somewhere you did support what the country stood for.
As time passed I could understand the argument that not all wanted to say 'under God' and not all wanted to recite the pledge. And I came to the conclusion that allowing those who didn't want to say the pledge was a fair practice.
But where we stand now, under our laws, are that those who don't wish to don't have to. BUT now those who don't want to don't want to allow others to do so either.
That is unjust, imo.
I felt a super compromise was reached that addressed the issue by allowing and not requiring. I feel that was a most balanced and fair way of addressing the issue for all.
We should be free to do so - or not - as we choose. But to say we 'cannot' is a restriction of freedom and unacceptable to me.
posted on June 15, 2004 09:09:52 AM new
Linda, "That doesn't mean it will be heard or not thrown out. Newdow didn't have standing....nor would you."
Are you a lawyer?
'Nother question...when you go to work do you and your coworker's stand up and say the "Pledge"?
Linda, "I always felt if you didn't want to pledge your allegience to this country, then you should live elsewhere"
Oh, for pete's sake Linda, Why just at school???....now if we don't stand beside our bed in the morning or at the breakfast table or line up at work and chant a set of words we should leave the country!!
So, if people don't line up like good little robots and do everything they're told they should leave the country????
That seems to be the righties non-solution to everything!
posted on June 15, 2004 09:39:06 AM new
crowfarm askes: Are you a lawyer?
One does not have to be a lawyer to know and have the ability to read the law. It's on the internet for the taking.
Try Findlaw.com
'Nother question...when you go to work do you and your coworker's stand up and say the "Pledge"?
I'm retired, crowfarm. When I go to pubic events I'm always pleased they say the pledge before the program begins, yes.
if people don't line up like good little robots and do everything they're told they should leave the country????
Once again you 'lefties' miss the point entirely. I haven't said 'do everything they're told to do' have I? No....I said if they want to they should be ALLOWED to do so.
That seems to be the righties non-solution to everything!
Well...here on these threads it's not only the 'righties' that have suggested this to others....the 'lefties' have too.
