posted on June 16, 2004 08:39:24 AM newI think that excluding people is not the correct thing to do.
That's great, yeager. Then continue along as you feel comfortable.
If you are referring to gays....I don't exclude them. They have lived right alone side of me with no problems for most of my life, peacefully. I will again repeat I do not *hate* gays. What you see is me [and my people ] objecting to gay marriage. You don't like that. But it's MY right to think, feel and state how *I* feel.
That is what seems to be the problem here - as I see it. Kiara has a need to control and takes statements on the issues personally. You appear to me to want to force others to 'fall in line' with your belief system. Just not going to happen.
I have previously shared that my husband was employeed as a manager for a US based Canadian firm. For over 23 years I was friends with the Canadians who worked in my country. It's not a Canadian issue. It's not an exclusion issue.
It's simple discussing subjects I don't agree with.
It's that I use the Canadian health care system as an example of why we, in the US, shouldn't choose to go with a national health care system here in the States. One can look to their system to see all the pitfalls and poor health care their citizens get under that program. That has absolutely nothing to do with Kiara as a person....but she personalizes it. Thinks it's an attack on Canada on her.
While once searching for something on Canada...I came across a few articles that spoke of their government censored TV stations. So I brought it up as I was surprised to learn that. She then became defensive. Her right. As it is mine when I feel my country or what it stands for is being slammed.
We only have control of our own behavior. We are all adults here and can state our points of views on the subjects knowing they're most likely to be challanged by someone who disagrees. That's what we do here. If some find they can't handle that type of discussion form - then THEY need to deal with that. Not try to control the behavior of someone else. It's not going to work and only creates more hostilities, imho.
posted on June 16, 2004 08:52:04 AM new
Linda, you didn't have a clue about what I was talking about on the previous page when I mentioned about whether it was okay to sit back and let someone preach their bigotry and intolerance because it's freedom or speech or if it was best to stand up and say something about it. If more people spoke out perhaps it would make things better for future generations so the intolerance towards others doesn't continue.
Instead of addressing that, you decided to turn it into a personal attack again by making comments that I was doing the same and for me to look in the mirror. Nowhere on these boards have I been a bigot or expressed intolerance towards other countries or cultures.
Well....you've been loosing your cool a lot lately.
I don't think I have at all, Linda. Just because I correct you and twelvepole when you make false claims about me it doesn't mean that I'm losing my cool. When I wrote those statements yesterday it was an observation of my feelings lately and I was calm when writing them.
You have also suggest some posters here....who don't agree with you...need to 'get help'.
I did a search and the only one that I can find that I recently suggested needed help was a poster who was having some problems with Memorial Day. And I told twelvepole to get some help on the Highways to Baghdad thread when he was advocating shooting posters like Helen. If you have any other incidents please post them here so I can see them.
And if you wish to have my respect...you'll have to start showing some to me.
You expect me to show respect to someone that lies about me and makes misrepresentations about me or Canada on a public board? Think again.
I go out of my way to not be rude to others and to work at only addressing the topic.
Linda, we were civil to one another until one day I expressed my views on Bush and after that you turned on me like a snake and you supported twelvepole's false claims about me every chance you got. Each time I started a topic that upset your way of thinking or if you had no way of proving your point when I asked you to do so, you brought up Canada and slammed it even though it had nothing to do with the topic.
I don't use the ignore button and I'm not a doormat that sits back while someone make false accusations, whether it's about me or anyone else. If that's your only way to respond to me, so be it. It doesn't mean that I have to be silent. And once again, I am writing this in a calm manner.
posted on June 16, 2004 09:12:56 AM new
Well, kiara - I guess we also have a difference of opinion on the subject of what 'calm, cool and collected' means to each of us.
partly because I get angry whenever I read some of the narrow-minded comments made by some of the people here. It makes me want to scream out and ask them who the hell they think they are that they want to force their beliefs on everyone else. I keep telling myself that I should be more tolerant of them but sometimes the ignorance just gets to me.
nor
it does make me angry at times and I feel like telling them to cram it up their azzes.
To me, hostility and anger come across in those words - not calm.
kiara - we're just going to have to disagree on this subject....because I have no intention of changing what I post here because it almost makes you lose control of your emotions or shows your lack of tolerance for the views you don't agree with. I'm sorry, but that's YOUR issue to deal with.
posted on June 16, 2004 09:34:59 AM new
Linda, once again I have to tell you that you do not understand at all what I'm saying. I said that sometimes when I hear certain views and see how intolerant people can be towards others and when I see their total ignorance about the world that is how I feel inside. It doesn't mean that I act out on those feelings. I even asked if it was best to allow others to keep being bigots because it's free speech or if it was best to finally speak out and say exactly how I feel at times.
I mentioned that I don't see this bigotry and intolerance among the people I meet daily or the people I associate with so perhaps that's why I have those feelings when I see people here and other places on the internet who actually have that much ignorance of others.
Thanks once again to Helen as she "gets it". She can actually read and understand what I'm saying and she knows that I am calm when I say it.
Linda, if you have no intention of changing and you continue to accuse me of being anti-American because I don't support your godly vision of Bush or his government then it shows your true ignorance.
I love America and I have never slammed it on any of these boards. If your only way to respond to me is by making up lies and false allegations I truly think it's the most ignorant thing for you to do but so be it.
posted on June 16, 2004 09:54:30 AM new
Okay - good -....now hopefully now this is finished. You have gotten off your chest what you needed to and so have I.
You post what you wish to and I will do the same. We're back to square one - free speech. How anyone reacts to what others say is their own issue.
posted on June 16, 2004 10:11:00 AM new
My point is that if your idea of free speech is to lie about others and then think that they wish your respect it shows your true face and it also shows how ignorant you truly are.
If your way to debate is to make up lies about those who don't agree with your views, it is an ignorant way to be.
And if you think that everyone is so weak that they will just walk away and not react and just let you continue to bully and lie, that's very ignorant thinking.
posted on June 16, 2004 10:22:31 AM new
And here I thought we were finished.
I have never tried to silence anyone because they state views that are different than mine. I do however, react to those posts. I have never told anyone to leave this forum. I have many times posted encouraging others to express their own views even though they disagree with mine. That is also a form of tolerance.
It is YOU who seems to be bothered by opposing views. And I'm saying get used to it...you're not going to change anyone. You do not control anyone except yourself. If that's not clear at this point - I give up.
posted on June 16, 2004 10:40:59 AM new
ROFLMHO - There....now the real kiara comes out. Not the calm, tolerant kiara at all ...who was just pretending how upset she really was.
posted on June 16, 2004 02:33:16 PM new
I need to say something here. First of all, Linda I agree with you and altho I dont see the republican side of many issues I respect your right to have those views. Where is it written that we cant have our personal likes and dislikes in order to comply with tolerance? Tolerance is not breaking the law of the land. Nowhere in the golden rule book does it say you have to like somebody or their POV.
Kiara, I was willing to let the whole memorial day thing run down. But you know what? You were wrong to post a critical view of what Americans (when you are not living amongst Americans here - and it is an American Holiday)- what are they doing for homeless veterans, the day of memorial day weekend....
You're just always looking for the controversial angle to put a cramp on things. Maybe had your prefaced or closed the post with Thanks to the vets or anything of that nature, your 'concern' would have some ring of truth to it. But you didnt. I felt good that morning. I knew there would be people getting honored and some well deserved attention for a lone weekend and especially some elderly enjoying it - then I come on here, check my auctions, read a few posts - and have to see that from you. It was such a sham to me, and I said so.
Then you post this stuff about 'please don't judge' - when YOU are judging all over the place!! Is that your job only, or your exclusive right on these boards??
This condescending 'get help' crap like you've got a degree in psychiatry is real old too. Why don't you start a psychic hotline since you seem to have the inside track on people you've never even met once in your life?
And lastly, you know what? You keep bringing up this grudge thing. I dont have a grudge against you. But I dont like you much anymore and I think you are a liar. If Fenix hadnt jumped in that thread and said "oh yeah, I remember when we went to those other threads to tease AA" (not verbatim) - YOU,- "YOU", were standing in the post before it swearing up and down it never happened - and therefore, surely I must need help. Well, I'm sure it was embarrassing to call you on the carpet for chasing him down like a little kid in those other threads that you have no interest in, so naturally you needed to save face. So I figured anybody who read it saw it for what it was. And except for the batting thing between him and fluffy, I think he was a nice guy and an enjoyable poster. Whatever was between you and him, I wasnt going to side with YOU for it just because you thought I should. And if I had a few friendly exchanges with him -- what the hell was it you anyway? ok, you've been here six years. You own these boards. Good. Stay here another six years and pretend you have some social life.
END OF POST
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I'm Nero, and I approved this message.
posted on June 16, 2004 04:15:18 PM new
Nero, where do I keep bringing up the grudge thing? Where have I mentioned any grudge? I've totally ignored you since the second time you made a fool of yourself and involved me in it.
If you want to drag up past history and piss and moan over something from weeks ago then check back and you will find the homeless veterans thread was started on May 29, a couple of days before the official Memorial Day and it was never intended to be a Memorial Day thread or a tribute to the troops, nor was the title of the thread labeled as such. It was a newstory that I found on the Yahoo website. Obviously you decided to get back at me because of your silly "lamp" thread so you went over the edge there.
I had nothing to do with your favorite little poster leaving the boards either. Him and I interacted in most threads without any disagreement at all and lots of times, such as the one that fenix meant, it was all in fun when her and I went over to the Online Auction forum for a day or so off and on. It had nothing to do with stalking. Here is the thread where I confirmed that, if you need to have your memory refreshed. You accused me and several others of outrageous things that none of us had done.
If he was interfering in auctions or posting under several aliases or did something else to get the boot from Vendio it was absolutely nothing I was involved in. Perhaps he chose to leave the boards on his own accord. I have never contacted Vendio about any other poster since I've been here. How about contacting Vendio and asking them before you start calling me a liar?
You are the one that has made inquiries and taken shots about my personal life and about my eBay room and about my social life and none of it is anyone's business. I don't discuss that here except to say that I'm quite happy in my life, thank you.
Yes, I've been here off and on almost since I started buying and selling on eBay and I've almost always used Vendio for my picture hosting. I'm sure there are others that have been here as long or longer than me and most of us probably have a social life. Some of us do know how to balance things.
posted on June 16, 2004 05:59:09 PM new
Wow, that thread makes amazing reading...
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
posted on June 16, 2004 07:30:48 PM new
You lied about going to the other threads. That was the lie and the only one I was talking about. Where you're going with it all is your own train. I dont have a need to ask Vendio about anything that has nothing do with me.
Youre as silly and as much a fool as anybody else who posts here, thats my point.
So get off your high horse, its a fraud.
posted on June 16, 2004 07:53:19 PM new
Sigh.........
Here is your accusation in the whacko lamp thread:
YOU stalked Ace in Amazon and the other auctions threads and I called you on it.
Here is my response:
Nero, you must have me mixed up with someone else. I haven't read the Amazon threads in years and I've never ever posted there. I've been here since '98. Do a search of the boards, I stand by my words.
Then read the rest of the whacko lamp thread where fenix comes in and explains about the so-called "stalking" incident with her, Ace and me.
Go do a search on Other Online Auctions and you will find the Ace, kiara, fenix thread in question and it was back in December for pete's sake. You will even find where I wished him a Happy New Year. There were no bad feelings at all then or none since that time, we were all just fooling around.
Of course I'm silly and a fool here lots of times and I'll always be the first to admit it. What the heck is your problem, anyways? It's like you are back in high school or something.
posted on June 16, 2004 08:26:09 PM new
kraft, kiara - whatever other of your duplicitious names you go by: have the last word because you are on ignore with me now. Your the one who is like in high school because you play the same lines on everybody and been at it for six freeking years! - why dont you graduate yourself and act like a real human being for a change? Linda is NOT wrong here, and that is why I even bothered to post to this thread.
And for anybody else reading, I've already stated my position on gays and gay rights. Perhaps Kiara can dig it out of the archives somewhere as that is what she apparantly loves to spend her time doing. Must be a ball and a half to live with, too. "you said...so and so...three years ago...here, I have it recorded...." Oh yeah, I bet a thrill a minute goes on IRL with somebody like you who throws every damn morsel they can grab back in your face. Did you misread it said Amazon AND THE OTHER THREADS? You knew exactly what was meant. Keep it, Kiara. I'm done with this.
posted on June 16, 2004 10:26:52 PM new
Kraft is a different person than I am, I post with only one ID which is Kiara.
Kraft lives in another part of the country and she's much sweeter than I will ever be so don't confuse us. She was posting at the RT for several years before I started posting here and most people that regularly post here can tell that we are two different people and recognize us as such.
] objecting to gay marriage. You don't like that. But it's MY right to think, feel and state how *I* feel.
