posted on June 20, 2004 09:19:20 PM new
Union workers always seem to have a chip on their shoulder for some reason. And they act like they are doing you a favor by doing their job. I guess they feel like they're being exploited.
"I voted for the $87 billion before I voted against it."
posted on June 20, 2004 09:25:19 PM newI think one of the reasons union membership is dropping is because of the job losses, especially in manufacturing
Well. IF you're talking about in the last 3+ years only.....NO. Unions have been losing membership/power for a very long time. Stats can be found on the internet.
posted on June 20, 2004 09:40:07 PM newJob Losses Erode Union Membership
Ongoing layoffs and the anti-union posture of the Bush administration are slicing union membership. The Bureau of Labor Statistics recently released new data on union membership for 2003, documenting the ongoing decline in private sector unionization. The number of workers who are union members fell by 369,000 to 15.8 million.
Private sector. Virtually all of the decline in union membership occurred in the private sector, where membership dropped to 8.2 percent in 2003, down from 8.5 percent in 2002 and 11.2 percent ten years ago. The unionization rate for the private sector has fallen by about half over the past twenty years.
Manufacturing loss. Most of the decline in private sector union membership stemmed from substantial employment losses in manufacturing, where total employment dropped by 257,000 in 2003 and the number of union members fell by 226,000. The portion of manufacturing workers who are union members fell from 14.6 percent in 2002 to 13.5 percent in 2003, with the sharpest losses in the durable goods industries.
posted on June 20, 2004 09:54:20 PM new
kiara - A quick search on google will prove what I'm saying is correct. Just enter:
union membership has been declining since....
and you will see many articles that mention what I'm speaking about.
I thought maybe you might believe it more coming from this particular site.
It says:
Loyalty to Capitalism Has Wrecked U.S. Unions
Unions In Decline - Workers Lose
U.S. union membership has been declining for 45 years. In the late 1950s, 35% of private industry was unionized. Last year it was down to 8.5%, a drop of 75%! Over the last 20 years there have been massive layoffs, huge wage and pension cuts, workers forced to pay for their health benefits and outsourcing to low-wage areas here and abroad and to slave labor in U.S. prisons.
This is fascism in the workplace.
The union leadership's response has been a combination of give-backs in all areas ("until times get better", collaborating with the bosses against foreign competition ("buy American", relying on Democrat Party politicians and supporting the U.S. imperialist invasion of Iraq. That is one helluva losing strategy — except for the bosses.
Capitalism is driven to strive for maximum profits. Capitalist production for ever-larger market share inevitably leads to overproduction. This forces the capitalists to reduce labor costs through mass layoffs and give-backs. This also reduces the capitalists' ability to sell their products and leads to a downturn in the economy.
Over the past 20 years, these downturns have produced market pressures that have forced corporations to revamp their business practices. In steel and auto this led to "lean" and "modular" production efficiency, automation, increased productivity, outsourcing, and large-scale layoffs.
The 1978 deregulation of the airlines produced low-cost competing airlines and huge losses among the unionized section of the industry. Pan Am and Eastern airlines went under, some merged or were absorbed by others. To stay in business they have demanded huge "voluntary" concessions from the workers or threatened to file for bankruptcy in order to break union contracts.
Sect. 1113 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code gives the court the right to void union contracts if the company can prove it "seriously hampers business." This has already happened at US Airlines, and is being threatened by United and American Airlines (world's largest carrier) unless the unions agree to $1.8 billion in concessions.
The capitalists use the state to crush the workers — the legal road to fascism - while the CEOs rake in millions in salaries, bonuses and stock options.
In comparing the leverage on both sides, a New York Times article (4/17) noted, "The unions were driving a Volkswagen Bug and the company an 18-wheeler."
The bosses try to force the working class to pay for the crisis of capitalism. The AFL-CIO operates like a business, functioning within the rules of the capitalist market and the bosses' laws and state apparatus. The "labor leaders" act as junior partners of the ruling class, telling workers to surrender to the bosses' demands or lose their jobs and union contracts. They urge workers to join with their bosses against "foreign competition" and "Buy American" or "Stand Up for Steel," rather than uniting with workers overseas against all bosses.
As the final icing on the capitalist cake, Sweeney's AFL-CIO supports the U.S. rulers' imperialist slaughter in Iraq.
Could red leadership of the unions change this picture?
Could red leadership of the unions change this picture? To a limited extent. Communists fight to sharpen the class struggle, resist the bosses' demands for concessions; break the bosses' laws and organize class-wide solidarity whenever one group of workers is under attack or out on strike; general strikes of workers, city-wide and industry wide; and no support for the bosses' adventures abroad, rather unity with our brothers and sisters worldwide — "workers of the world unite!"
posted on June 20, 2004 10:10:43 PM newI thought maybe you might believe it more coming from this particular site.
From the Communist Magazine site? I imagine you may be a bit more familiar with the route to that site than I am, Linda since I'm not a believer in Communism.
posted on June 20, 2004 10:31:21 PM new
kiara - Well...you never really state much of what you do support....only what you dislike.
I used that site to prove what I was saying was true....and didn't choose to use a right leaning site because they're always discounted around here...not to be believed - only neo-cons and fascists believe these articles when offered for 'proof'.
You, yourself, have more than once tried to imply that some here support fascism - even giving a dictionary definition for the word.
Well....there's my proof that what I said was true and you can't use that excuse on this issue anyway.
--------------
taken from a CBS article earlier this year:
Now more unions are joining Kerry. But after the failure of the two candidates with the most union support, the question is whether organized labor will matter on Election Day.
After all, labor union membership has dwindled for decades: The U.S. Department of Labor says last year 12.9 percent of wage and salary workers belonged to a union, or roughly 16 million people. That was 369,000 fewer members than in 2002, and 4 million fewer than in 1983.
"I think that it's been many decades since trade union endorsements made a big difference," said Max Green, who wrote a book critical of unions' political strategy.
---------------
You can't blame several decades of lowering union membership only on THIS President kiara.
posted on June 20, 2004 11:46:06 PM new
Unions in Government and the Private sector have become Big business.
My father formed the United Mine workers in South Eastern Kentucky in 1917. He made Fire Brick by hand on a dry floor filed with sand in the air that at times reached a temperature over 120 degrees. Each man had a tally of 2000 bricks a day. You made your own molds, mixed your own mud, and didn't go home until your tally was made. Every thing he bought, he had to buy through the Company Store. Many things improved with his union it bargain for his pay ans saw that his contractual rights were not violated. His union became strong, it made his life better.
In the late 30's his union international leadership became filled with Members American Nazi party and the Mob. As the Nazis and the Mob fought for control over his union. International strikes were called. He crossed the picket line 3 times during World War II. His local went with him. "No American or its allies would die because of lack of Steel not being produced for lack of fire brick" he told his local. After the War his Union was controlled by the Mob. He survived the automation of his job. What he did not survive was the corruption in his union. His retirement was squandered by his union. His dues was used for political power instead of using it for the betterment of its members and quality of life. He had no control over what his dues went to.
Today 10% in the private sector belong to the union. 45% in the government sector belong to the union. International leadership are on par with pay of Company C.E.O.'s when you add their expense account.
Most Unions are big business. It is top heavy in leadership. It can not and will not modernize at any level. Why because the leadership would loose their perks and power. It has not learn from the past. Unions that control the retirement of its members are in deep crap. Most who have already retired may loose it and those that have not retired may not have it when they do.
My Father was 15 when he started to work. He retired in 1960 when his Company Closed its door. His retirement was gone. Over 15,000 men lost retirement from a union managed retirement fund.
The unions of today Have become the company store of my father"s time.
I have dealt with union workers most of my life. I have yet to meet one with a chip on his or her shoulder. I just wish their Union would serve them as well as they do them.
posted on June 21, 2004 04:19:35 AM new
Linda, when the unions were strong people made good money and lived well on a decent wage.
But from reading your posts on just about any topic I see that when people suffer you dance the "happy dance"...
I have never read about or met anyone one with a meaner spirit, more closed mind, or "dead" heart except for the Bush administration which, I guess, is why you worship at their feet..
I know if I ever looked into your eyes there'd be nothing there...I've seen it before...that blank souless look, no spark of humanity...........I asked you before if you knew any humans...you never answered.
And to you and Fred, Yup, the unions made some whopping mistakes and some were run by crooks. So, you think life for workers with no union was SO MUCH Better....well, I could do a Linda thing and search the Internet for all the horror stories of what companies have done to employees from Enron to Walmart but you'd just deny it ever happened.
There are NO CROOKED CEO'S , right Fred and Linda, just good money managers.
Let's go back 100 years to what worker's faced then before unions but you'd just deny it ever happened.
America is a union. Ya, know, One Union under...
So it's now in the same position as labor unions....people need to get involved and vote and have their vote COUNTED (something the Bushies didn't want)or America might go the way of labor unions.
Linda, I won't answer your subsequent post...heck, I could probably write it I now know you so well...and it isn't worth reading.
Here's hoping someday you heal.
Peace
[ edited by crowfarm on Jun 21, 2004 04:21 AM ]
posted on June 21, 2004 09:00:20 AM new
For those that like "change" Unions are a good example of what was good in the past is no longer needed in the future...
, collaborating with the bosses against foreign competition ("buy American"