Twelvepole
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posted on July 7, 2004 01:24:10 PM new
Our health care system works just fine, it those unwilling to work for it is the problem...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 7, 2004 01:33:36 PM new
Wake up Twelve. There are people who can't afford health insurance in the U.S. because they don't make enough money to live. Quit thinking everyone is a leech.
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 01:59:11 PM new
who can't afford health insurance
There's a huge difference between *saying* one cannot 'afford' health insurance - like making a choice they refuse to purchase it - and not having health care. No one in the US is refused health care.
It's all relative as to what people spend their money on....health care *insurance* or other lifestyle choices they make...ie: un-necessary luxury items.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 7, 2004 02:04:31 PM new
Lets see SUV or Health Insurance...
Considering that health care is paid for by most employers and that an employee only pays a fraction of the costs... that is their problem, not the governments...
All states have some form of public health... but seeing how lazy most of these people are, I can see why they would not want to use it... welfare also pays for health care... it is there...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 7, 2004 02:17:27 PM new
But that's the problem. If health care is considered a luxery item, only the rich will be able to afford it.
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 7, 2004 02:24:02 PM new
once again you misunderstand kraft, linda is pointing out that the same people complaining about not having health care, seem to be the same ones buying luxury items...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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davebraun
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posted on July 7, 2004 03:16:47 PM new
Once again 12hole you show what an idiot you are. To claim everyone in this country can obtain adequate health coverage flies in the face of reality.
Are you that stupid or do you just like to argue things that are simply not true. Not a matter of political interpretation, just not true.
There are people in this country that have to make the choice between eating or obtaining their medications but I guess food is one of those luxury items.
Feel free to attack me now with a torrent of rhetoric.
By the way, I purchase my health insurance privately unlike many as I am not a failure like yourself.
[ edited by davebraun on Jul 7, 2004 04:00 PM ]
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Twelvepole
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posted on July 7, 2004 03:30:57 PM new
No just someone who got something they don't deserve...
People in this country are too dependent on the government, sad sacks like yourself only serve to perpetuate that fallacy...
Yep I did fail at something, not stopping me and surely you don't see me asking for the govt to assist...
My new employer has outstanding benefits...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 04:02:29 PM new
I just read that for the budget year 2004/2005 Canada will spend $237 Million on health care for their citizens.
[KD - please correct me if you've heard/read differently]
And what's their population? 31Million?
Take those numbers and multiply them times our population at almost 300M to see what we would be paying.
And for that we'd get our government, who we know handles all our government agencies so well  , tell us what kind of waits we'd have to receive medical care? I don't think so.....thank you anyway.
Plus in my reading I wasn't aware that part of the funding for their health care goes to educating their doctors and nurses....and THE GOVERNMENT decides how many will attend medical school.
Nope....not a system I'd like to see here.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 7, 2004 04:19:02 PM new
Then what you will end up with Linda, is health care becoming really big business at the expense of its poor. If doctors and nurses are only in it for the money, you're right, Canada wouldn't be the right place for them.
[ edited by kraftdinner on Jul 7, 2004 04:20 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 04:36:49 PM new
I disagree, KD.
What we will end up with, and what we currently have is health care that far surpasses what Canadians get.
I've posted links before from your doctors saying they are overworked and underpaid....too few doctors for proper care [government regulated].
To few vital pieces of up-to-date diagnostic equipment. [government decision making on purchases of needed equipment]. Too long of waits to see a doctor....four months is outrageous. Then surgeries for say cancer...done sooner but the patient has to wait for chemo/radiation for way too long. That's life threatening.
And the government not allowing citizens to pay for better medical care themselves....no it's more important it's all 'equal' no matter how poor the care....as long as all get poor it's okay.
------------------
There are other ways we can improve our health care system - without going to socialized medicine.
One way, which the left ususally doesn't support, is putting a 'cap' on lawsuits. Our doctors can barely afford their insurance premiums....and we pay for that cost in what we are charged.
Another way is to give larger tax benefits, according to income, so larger deductions for the cost of medical care can be deducted.
Anyone in their right mind who uses the numbers above can see we'd be spending approx. 80% of our tax dollars on health care. For what benefit - to have sub-standard health care and wait forever to get it?
Our care here is great....capitalism works....keeps things competitive and keeps
our medical technology up-to-date and accessable to all, including those with no insurance.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 7, 2004 05:01:33 PM new
I see. Linda if you were a poor person on a limited budget, I wonder if you would still sound so arrogant? We have a good system here and we look after each other by choice. If that's not your cup of tea, so be it.
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bunnicula
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posted on July 7, 2004 05:38:29 PM new
In 99.9% of lawsuits, I heartily agree that there should be a cap. But then there's that .1% that involve truly heinous negligence and malfeasance...
Which is why I think that there shouldbe a general cap, but that there should be the ability to "uncap" in that .1% of cases.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 08:05:40 PM new
KD - I don't consider it arrogant to want the best health care possible and not want to pay a fortune for poor care and long waits and the government making medical decisions that affect MY LIFE. And our poor benefit from the up-to-date equipment like MRI's CATs etc...just like those who can afford to pay their bills. At least they're accessable and we're not running shortages of those important diagnostic, life saving items.
----------------------
bunni - I agree...but how and who would sort that 1% out? To me, it's like the death penalty. Some argue mistakes are made so we should eliminate it all together. - low percentages of innocents are put to death - but as a whole the system works. I feel the same way about this. We can't have perfection, but do need to address one of the largest costs that raise our medical bills/insurance. And if we aren't willing to ONLY because of that 1% then we have to stop complaining and be willing to pay what it costs, or go without.
Just like now....one can hardly afford to pay an OBGYN to deliver a child anymore. Many are leaving the field because they can't afford their mal-practice insurance. So what happens then? Fewer docs....the remaining one's that are still practicing charge more. Higher costs....higher insurance premiums. The cycle continues.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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kraftdinner
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posted on July 7, 2004 08:25:32 PM new
You guys have MRI and CT scanners???
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 08:40:46 PM new
LOL we sure do.
We just have MORE of them, per population, than you do.
{{{KD}}}
Re-elect President Bush!!
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bunnicula
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posted on July 7, 2004 09:48:01 PM new
Linda: I don't expect doctors to be perfect by any means. But when it comes to switching cancer diagnosis so that a woman's breasts are cut off only to discover she didn't have cancer...or when the wrong limb is removed so the person ends up having to be a double amputee...or when a hospital uses unsterilized equipment which leads to sepsis & lesions that after 4 years doctors still can't eradicate...or when someone getting a transplant dies because the doctors used organs from a donor an with incompatible blood type...or when people die or are injured because a doctor who should not be practising at all is still allowed to..then I think you are looking at the .1%
And all of those things are actual happenings that have been covered in the news.
A friend's husband almost lost his leg because their doctor refused to listen to him. He'd had an accident & his leg was badly broken--they'd had to operate and use a plate to put his leg back together. Weeks, then months passed and he was in severe pain. He kept telling the doctor he thought something was wrong, but the doctor just prescribed pain meds and, in effect, told him to stop being such a baby. Then, during a trip to New York, he collapsed and was rushed to a hospital there. The doctors examined him & it was discovered that a major infection had set into the bone of his leg. He was flown by emergency plane to USC medical center and operated on again. It has been almost two years now & he is just now being able to go back to work, well in a limited way. And he's still in physical therapy. All this has certainly adversely affected him, his life, and their entire family, especially financially. They've barely been able to keep their house.
I'm usually the last to think about suing anybody, but I told Roseanne that she and her husband should sue the bejesus out of their original doctor. I think it's justified, too.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
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crowfarm
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posted on July 7, 2004 09:49:43 PM new
linda, don't you get tired hating large groups of people, whole countries,the entire world ???? What a burden you have to carry.
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 09:59:43 PM new
bunni - I agree with what you said and asked *for a solution* as to how to deal with that 1%...because I know mistakes happen...sometimes out of incompetience.
I asked because I don't see one. It's an either or as it now stands.
But IF we don't want to place caps on these claims....and we all know the lawyers get 1/2 or more of the verdict....then just how can we stop the growing cost of mal-practice insurance/insurance coverage for us?
crowfarm.....buzz off.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 10:01:37 PM new
I wanted to add:
having a national health care system isn't going to stop bad doctors or mistakes that good doctors make. It's still going to be a problem.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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crowfarm
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posted on July 7, 2004 10:04:04 PM new
I can't buzz off...I'm pretending I'm a fly and they always buzz around bullsh!t.
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 10:06:22 PM new
But you're the only one in the room....by yourself.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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crowfarm
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posted on July 7, 2004 10:08:36 PM new
Oh linda ...A+ for making a coherent sentence!!! You're learning!
Now just keep repeating...Re-elect Bush... and soon you will actually think it will happen!
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crowfarm
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posted on July 7, 2004 10:12:09 PM new
Oh, forgot to ask....do you take steroids to keep all that hate going?
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bunnicula
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posted on July 7, 2004 10:25:24 PM new
Linda: boards could be set up to examine lawsuit claims, and in cases such as those mentioned above, should be able to make a special dispensation. People making huge lawsuits should also be investigated, as people making workman's comp claims are. If found to be one of the 99.9%, the cap should be adhered to. If found to be one of the .1%, the cap could be lifted by a specified amount. And those found actually lying should be prosecuted.
____________________
We are not afraid to entrust the American people with unpleasant facts, foreign ideas, alien philosophies, and competitive values. For a nation that is afraid to let its people judge the truth and falsehood in an open market is a nation that is afraid of its people. -- John F. Kennedy
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Linda_K
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posted on July 7, 2004 11:21:53 PM new
bunni - I would agree to something along those lines.
Problem is neither side [kerry/bush] is recommending that, at least that I'm aware of.
Re-elect President Bush!!
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neroter12
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posted on July 8, 2004 12:30:48 PM new
Linda, i think its more like 33-40% the lawyer takes from the settlement.
(just thought I'd throw that in...lol)
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