Really Linda? Does it honestly baffle you when people are offended because you label them Anti American because they have a different view of things?
I think the problem here is that some see me blaming a difference of *opinion* [from mine] as being anti-American.
To me a different opinion is not necessarily anti-American. When it becomes anti-American in MY eyes....and trust me in the eyes of millions of voters, is when our country has made a decision to take any action - when our Congress and House has agreed and voted to go to war....and one calls the President a Nazi, etc...that IS anti-American. Because it is what our LEADERS....all of them...well the majority...have decided to do.
They, collectively, represent our governments 'stand/position' on whatever the subject/issue is. To be against that is to be anti-American.
Another form of being anti-American, in my eyes, is to work towards changing or encouraging a different form of government than the one we have. Like changing it from a capitalist form of government to a socialist form of government.
Opinions ....we all have them and are free to express them....just as am free to 'call them how I see them'. Opposing the positions our collective government has decided upon....yes....is anti-American. Some here have called it un-American if citizens...and anti if not US a citizen.
Are you really just unable to wrap your mind around why some might be offended when labeled anti-marriage when they are fighting for the right to actually be married?
I don't believe I ever called anyone anti-American for having the position that supports gay marriage.
But if you're of the opinion that we who support keeping the traditional meaning of marriage as it always has been....don't have a right of our own to defend that meaning and what it stands for then you'd be wrong.
If these truly are difficult concepts for you to grasp, it is because people are shocked and amazed at the audacity of others to believe that their opinion, and theirs alone is the only true and correct one and that anyone that has a different view is not simply in disagreement with you, but that they are actually against the very things they are fighting for. It's insulting and it's condescending.
You're in a mood tonight. I've never held the position others can't have a different opinion....I'm just expressing mine. Some other posts offend me too...that's life.
posted on July 9, 2004 01:52:18 AM new
Linda - I was not directing those statement towards you directly. There are others thaat use the anti-american, anti- this, anti-that tag as an isult with far more frequency than yourself.
BTW - reread my sentence about marriage - I said anti-marriage not anti american
I think that people have a right to believe what they want but to say that those who fight for the right to be married are anti-marriage is a little strange don't you think? They are not against marriage, they are whole heartedly for it. If they were anti-marriage they wouldn't be fighting to be married.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on July 9, 2004 04:48:09 AM new
I'm late in getting in on this thread so forgive the mention of something that was stated earlier. Why is it such a big deal that Kerry protested the Vietnam War (hmmmmm, I mean Vietname Police Action)? IMO, that war was the most brutal and costly in our history.
The lowest casualty estimates, based on the now-renounced North Vietnamese statements, are around 1.5 million Vietnamese killed. Vietnam released figures on April 3, 1995 that a total of one million Vietnamese combatants and four million civilians were killed in the war. The accuracy of these figures has generally not been challenged. 58,226 American soldiers also died in the war or are missing in action. Australia lost almost 500 of the 47,000 troops they had deployed to Vietnam and New Zealand lost 38 soldiers.
The Kent State protest incident where four students were killed and nine other are wounded isn't even included in the above stats. A war that deserved to be protested!
I will say that I don't recall Linda personally calling anyone anti-American. Sometimes though, Linda, it can be said by the tone of your statements without directly saying it.
Where does that poem suggest communism? American freedom was a lie to many people. Were the slaves FREE? Were the American Indians FREE? Were the Irish living in ghettos unable to find work because they were Irish, FREE? Come on. Study your history a bit better.
Communism in its truest form does not exist, never has. What we call communistic countries today, are not true communistic countries. They've taken a theory and have twisted and distorted it to serve their own agenda (sound familiar to any of my leftist friends?) When you think of communism, think of the communes of the 1960s. Places were all were equal. All owned the same things, all ate the same things, all had the same wealth. Do not confuse Stalinism, Maoism or Nazism for true communism.
Communism, or communist society is the name of the social formation, which, according to Marxism, is a classless society in which all property is owned by the community as a whole and where all people enjoy equal social and economic status.
Communism in its original meaning is a social theory and political movement for the direct and communal control of society towards the common benefits of all members, the society being the communist society.
Now, where in the world does that really exist?
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Jul 9, 2004 04:48 AM ]
posted on July 9, 2004 05:39:01 AM new
Linda states. "taken fromwwww.andrewsullivan.com
I said to Linda..."Linda, You linked to Andrew Sullivan... Your time would be better spent, Linda, reading Andrew Sullivan's information about Gay's right to marry. He is a conservative homosexual."
linda says in reply to that, "so what are you saying helen? that you think gays don't have good judgement?"
Only that preposterous conclusion would occur to you.
I'm saying that YOU don't have good judgement and that instead of using Sullivan's page to promote your silly attempt to link communism to Kerry via poetry that you could better spend your time learning something by reading Sullivan's highly regarded information on that site about homosexuality. Homosexuality, Here Comes the Groom
That's a topic on which some education might improve your sensitivity and consideration for others.
posted on July 9, 2004 05:53:15 AM new
There you go again, helen....telling others what they SHOULD do all the time.
You take care of helen...I'll take care of Linda and I'll decide what I SHOULD do.
Again....it was an article in the WSJ.
---------------------
Cheryl - There's a HUGE difference between protesting and siding with the enemy. A HUGE difference.
As far as communism and socialism, and those who push their agenda... they're not dead parties by any means. There's many here in our country....and guess, since we basically only have two parties, which of those two parties they support? Right...the dems.
And in this election cycle it's getting harder and harder to tell who the moderate dems are anymore.
Here's a current listing of all the political parties in the USA.
posted on July 9, 2004 10:39:00 AM new
Also, if you take the number of letters in the poem and divide it by the sylables in Kerry's full name and then multiply it by the letters in Edwards full name and add the number of yards between Moscow and Washington DC, it WILL EQUAL THE EXACT SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE KREMLIN !!!!!
HOW ABOUT THAT FOR A COMMUNIST CONNECTION !!!
IT'S A CLOSER CONNECTION THAN THIS POEM IS ........
posted on July 9, 2004 11:06:21 AM new
Bunni, thanks for your reply. Sorry I didnt address the topic of communisism -- the gist of that in poetry escapes me.
posted on July 9, 2004 12:05:22 PM newd reading profe? You missed where this came from....they're both given credit.
Nope. I was responding to davebraun, whose post is immediately above mine. My only direct response to yours was earlier, where I called it a preposterous stretch, but didn't question it's provenance.
___________________________________
If the world made sense, men would ride sidesaddle.
posted on July 9, 2004 04:17:42 PM new
Right now, we have one guy saying one thing. Then the other guy says something else. Who to believe.
Lemme see, have I got this straight?..................
Clinton awards Halliburton a no-bid contract in Yugoslavia - good...
Bush awards Halliburton a no-bid contract in Iraq - bad...
Clinton spends 87 billion on war in Serbia - good...
Bush spends 87 billion in Iraq - bad...
Clinton imposes regime change in Serbia - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
Clinton bombs Christian Serbs on behalf of Muslim Albanian terrorists -good....
Bush liberates 25 million from a genocidal dictator - bad...
Clinton bombs Chinese embassy - good...
Bush bombs radical terrorist camps - bad...
Clinton commits felonies while in office - good...
Bush lands on aircraft carrier in jumpsuit - bad...
Clinton says there are mass graves in Serbia - good...
Entire world says there are WMD in Iraq - bad...
No mass graves found in Serbia - good...
No WMD found Iraq - bad...
Stock market crashes in 2000 under Clinton - good...
Economy slows a little under Bush - bad...
Clinton refuses to take custody of Bin Laden - good...
World Trade Centers fall under Bush - bad...
Clinton says Saddam has nukes - good...
Bush says Saddam has nukes - bad...
Clinton calls for regime change in Iraq - good...
Bush imposes regime change in Iraq - bad...
Terrorist are training in Afghanistan under Clinton - good...
Bush destroys terrorist training camps in Afghanistan - bad...
Milosevic not yet convicted - good...
Saddam turned over for trial - bad...
Dam dem's just can't please em.....
"The natural family is a man and woman bound in a lifelong covenant of marriage for the purposes of:
*the continuation of the human species,
*the rearing of children,
*the regulation of sexuality,
*the provision of mutual support and protection,
*the creation of an altruistic domestic economy, and
*the maintenance of bonds between the generations."
posted on July 9, 2004 05:00:04 PM newThat Make One Go Duuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
You think of that all by yourself or did you steal it from Kerry's campaign theme?
"The natural family is a man and woman bound in a lifelong covenant of marriage for the purposes of:
*the continuation of the human species,
*the rearing of children,
*the regulation of sexuality,
*the provision of mutual support and protection,
*the creation of an altruistic domestic economy, and
*the maintenance of bonds between the generations."
posted on July 10, 2004 01:48:47 PM new
Shhhhhh, Bear. The liberal tweakers are committed to their spin being sacrosanct. Don't point out the glaring conundrums of their stance dance.
________________
You know...the best way to defeat a liberal is to let them speak.
