posted on July 27, 2004 09:07:38 AM new
I suggest everyone be sure to catch Obama's speech this evening, during the 9 p.m. slot Eastern time. He is truly a rising star and an amazing person. Teresa Heinz Kerry is also speaking earlier.
___________________________________
"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same, but better."
- Sidney J Harris
posted on July 27, 2004 09:33:52 AM new
Roadsmith you might find this interesting:
Jan Schakowsky told me about a recent visit she had made to the White House with a congressional delegation. On her way out, she said, President Bush noticed her “obama” button. “He jumped back, almost literally,” she said. “And I knew what he was thinking. So I reassured him it was Obama, with a ‘b.’ And I explained who he was. The President said, ‘Well, I don’t know him.’ So I just said, ‘You will.’”
posted on July 27, 2004 11:59:57 AM new
I'd heard about that encounter; makes me smile. Obama has been written up in a New Yorker profile as well as in other publications already. Illinois voters can be proud of him.
___________________________________
"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same, but better."
- Sidney J Harris
posted on July 27, 2004 12:43:06 PM new
OK, he sounds interesting. If he can unite the people, that's what it is about. Gads, now I have to find the remote and put batteries in it.
posted on July 27, 2004 01:11:04 PM new
He has my vote for the US Senator from Illinois. As of yet the Republicans can't seem to get a challenger for him.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 27, 2004 01:39:24 PM new
It's been reported that three of the 'lefts' major networks won't be broadcasting the DNC tonight. So...it won't get the audience it normally would.
And yes...if Ryan had been a democrat they'd have had no problem defending his *private life/actions* with his wife [at that time] and not let it interfer with their political ambitions.
But, hey, he's got to be better than listening to ol' hillary speak. Until her supporters screamed that she wasn't even going to be speaking at all....and after ALL the fund raising she's done for the dem party....they finally relented and let her introduce the one who embarassed her, used her in front of the Nation, her husband.
There again...it's that political division in the dem party at work.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on July 27, 2004 02:13:36 PM new
And yes...if Ryan had been a democrat they'd have had no problem defending his *private life/actions* with his wife [at that time] and not let it interfer with their political ambitions.
To set things straight - no pun intended - it was those in the Republican party that suggested Ryan to resign and would not stick up for him. If you can't trust those in your own party who can you trust.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 27, 2004 02:40:47 PM new
Once again and so very often we see on this board Linda_K's closed minded blah blah blah. I think it was Bill Clinton that said last night this election is about the very soul of this country. From Linda's post I believe she sold her soul for a few pieces of silver years ago. Linda has repeatedly said time and again she doesn't want to help people that are less fortunate financially than she is. Because Linda is so closed minded she has become misinformed. Her posts are significant to only a few other misinformed people like Bear1949 and twelvetoes. After all how much can a thinking person believe words from a person that uses quotes from a convicted felon like Oliver North. I saw Oliver North (live on TV) stand with his right hand raised to God and tell one lie after another to God, the court, and all of America. Bill Clinton also said last night if you believe people like Linda_K are right and you want people like her running your government then you should vote Republican.
I WANT ALL AMERICANS TO HAVE A BETTER STRONGER AMERICA AND GOVERNMENT. WE CAN ALL GET THERE BY VOTING FOR JOHN KERRY AND JOHN EDWARDS. IT FEELS GOOD NOT HAVING TO LIE WHEN I SAY THESE WORDS.
posted on July 28, 2004 12:57:26 AM new
Kind of hard to address what he's said...and what we think about it...hours BEFORE he's even on stage.
And obviously you overlooked my comment - that WAS on topic.
It's been reported that three of the 'lefts' major networks won't be broadcasting the DNC tonight. So...it won't get the audience it normally would.
And:
But, hey, he's got to be better than listening to ol' hillary speak. Until her supporters screamed that she wasn't even going to be speaking at all....and after ALL the fund raising she's done for the dem party....they finally relented and let her introduce the one who embarassed her, used her in front of the Nation, her husband.
--------------
Linda has repeatedly said time and again she doesn't want to help people that are less fortunate financially than she is.
Bigpeepa is a liar.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 28, 2004 01:06 AM ]
posted on July 28, 2004 01:00:54 AM new
logansdad - To set things straight.....nothing to get straight. The moral standard difference between the two parties is QUITE clear to me. That's what I attempted to point out....you just missed it.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on July 28, 2004 07:40:22 AM new
Same old linda.
""But, hey, he's got to be better than listening to ol' hillary speak. Until her supporters screamed that she wasn't even going to be speaking at all....and after ALL the fund raising she's done for the dem party....they finally relented and let her introduce the one who embarassed her, used her in front of the Nation, her husband.""
Doesn't know a thing about the topic so she attacks a strong, extremely successful, SMART, woman (the kind that makes her"gag".
And, bigpeepa is not a liar....you have stated that over and over that you don't care about the less fortunate.
Well, it's a good thing Clinton and other senators care about the less fortunate because for them that includes YOU!
posted on July 28, 2004 08:31:22 AM new
The moral standard difference between the two parties is QUITE clear to me.
AH, those on the right claim to live the righteous way but then they are no different than those on the left. It is no wonder Jack Ryan is divorced from his wife.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
All Things Just Keep Getting Better
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on July 28, 2004 08:40:03 AM new
I just read Obama's speech and have been listening to comments(from MANY sources) and this guy is a "force to be reckoned with".
Are we looking at our first black president?
I hope so and not because he's black. This man is awesome. He's got it all and then some!
posted on July 28, 2004 08:51:56 AM newAre we looking at our first black president?
I think so, crowfarm!
What an impressive guy...Take a look at his Endorsements
This is the Barack Obama profile that you mentioned, Roadsmith in the The New Yorker..
Obama, 42, is a graduate of Columbia University and Harvard Law School. He was the first African-American president of the Harvard Law Review. He gained experience as a civil rights lawyer and community activist on housing and other matters before he was elected to the state Senate from a South Side district in 1996. He is now a constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago Law School.
posted on July 28, 2004 12:59:17 PM new
neroter said,"crow, how intimately do you know linda to know how fortunate or not she is? "
I know her well enough to know that women like Ms. Kerry make her want to "gag" because they're so far above her.
I know Kerry, Clinton and others aren't posting in HERE like linda is or we are....they're far too busy helping to improve the world unlike linda who only cares about her tiny tight little coccoon world.
Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a
liberal America and a conservative America
-- there's the United States of America.
There's not a black America and white
America and Latino America and Asian
America; there's the United States of
America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice
our country into Red States and Blue States;
Red States for Republicans, Blue States for
Democrats. But I've got news for them, too.
We worship an awesome God in the Blue
States, and we don't like federal agents
poking around our libraries in the Red
States. We coach Little League in the Blue
States and have gay friends in the Red
States. There are patriots who opposed the
war in Iraq and patriots who supported it.
We are one people, all of us pledging
allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us
defending the United States of America.
posted on July 28, 2004 02:33:03 PM new
crowfarm - And, bigpeepa is not a liar....you have stated that over and over that you don't care about the less fortunate.
crowfarm is another liar.
I have never stated that. EVER!!!
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on July 28, 2004 02:34:41 PM new
Crow, sad thing but what you say about Linda, could be said of any one of us, even yourself. you are very judgemental when you want to be - just not about looks tho, eh?
posted on July 28, 2004 03:00:59 PM new
Noting...I did NOT watch his speech. Commenting on how I see this excerpt.
Powerful excerpt...
Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a
liberal America and a conservative America
-- there's the United States of America.
Delusional if he sees our country as not being very much divided.
There's not a black America and white
America and Latino America and Asian
America; there's the United States of
America.
again, there is great race division and the democratic party feeds into the divided.
The pundits like to slice-and-dice
our country into Red States and Blue States;
Red States for Republicans, Blue States for
Democrats. But I've got news for them, too.
We worship an awesome God in the Blue
States, and we don't like federal agents
poking around our libraries in the Red
States.
Most dems here have an absolute shi$ fit when anything about God is brought up into a discussion.....but with Barack Obama's mention of a "God"...he's just so great.
Poking around in libraries isn't strickly a dem vs rep issue...blue vs red states. There are many on both sides of the aisles who believe we need to take further actions to catch the terrorists in our country. LIKE KERRY ...who voted for the Patriot Act.
We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends in the Red States.
Not as accept in the red states as in the more liberal blue states - that's why they generally migrate to the big cities....where they are more accepted. Bible belt states aren't as accepting of anti-Bibical morals.
There are patriots who opposed the
war in Iraq and patriots who supported it.
We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.
no....there are many who refuse to pledge allegiance to our nation and support disrespecting our flag and are anti-all-war. Not willing to defend this Nation. Those are NOT patriots in my eyes.
----------------
Sounds like a young man whose idealistic views haven't met up with the reality of how things really are vs how he'd like them to be. But he's still young.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
Re-elect President Bush!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jul 28, 2004 03:07 PM ]
posted on July 28, 2004 03:17:03 PM new
Linda: If you didn't see his speech, try not to comment on Obama the man. Reading his speech is a lukewarm activity compared to hearing and seeing his delivery. He is being called a tidal wave in U.S. politics, and that isn't overstating it at all.
Churchill's great WWII speeches don't read nearly as well as when they're heard and seen by the man himself.
You really must not comment if you didn't watch his speech, because you're commenting out of ignorance.
___________________________________
"Our dilemma is that we hate change and love it at the same time; what we really want is for things to remain the same, but better."
- Sidney J Harris
posted on July 28, 2004 03:29:16 PM new
roadsmith - You dems are ALL so controlling.
I'll post whatever I wish to post.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
posted on July 28, 2004 03:37:54 PM new
Roadsmith, I did see the speech. While I thought he had some good things to say and he seemed to be rallying the crowd,...I dont know why...but he did not impress me all that much. Maybe it was the high expections going on?
Linda, can I bribe ya into not posting?
lol...kidding you know!!
Barack Obama Candidate for the United States Senate, Illinois Democratic National Convention Tuesday, July 27, 2004
BOSTON, July 27 /PRNewswire/ -- The following is a transcript of a speech
by Barack Obama at the Democratic National Convention on Tuesday, July 27,
2004:
On behalf of the great state of Illinois, crossroads of a nation, land of
Lincoln, let me express my deep gratitude for the privilege of addressing this
convention. Tonight is a particular honor for me because, let's face it, my
presence on this stage is pretty unlikely. My father was a foreign student,
born and raised in a small village in Kenya. He grew up herding goats, went to
school in a tin-roof shack. His father, my grandfather, was a cook, a domestic
servant.
But my grandfather had larger dreams for his son. Through hard work and
perseverance my father got a scholarship to study in a magical place; America
which stood as a beacon of freedom and opportunity to so many who had come
before. While studying here, my father met my mother. She was born in a town
on the other side of the world, in Kansas. Her father worked on oil rigs and
farms through most of the Depression. The day after Pearl Harbor he signed up
for duty, joined Patton's army and marched across Europe. Back home, my
grandmother raised their baby and went to work on a bomber assembly line.
After the war, they studied on the GI Bill, bought a house through FHA, and
moved west in search of opportunity.
And they, too, had big dreams for their daughter, a common dream, born of
two continents. My parents shared not only an improbable love; they shared an
abiding faith in the possibilities of this nation. They would give me an
African name, Barack, or "blessed," believing that in a tolerant America your
name is no barrier to success. They imagined me going to the best schools in
the land, even though they weren't rich, because in a generous America you
don't have to be rich to achieve your potential. They are both passed away
now. Yet, I know that, on this night, they look down on me with pride.
I stand here today, grateful for the diversity of my heritage, aware that
my parents' dreams live on in my precious daughters. I stand here knowing that
my story is part of the larger American story, that I owe a debt to all of
those who came before me, and that, in no other country on earth, is my story
even possible. Tonight, we gather to affirm the greatness of our nation, not
because of the height of our skyscrapers, or the power of our military, or the
size of our economy. Our pride is based on a very simple premise, summed up in
a declaration made over two hundred years ago, "We hold these truths to be
self-evident, that all men are created equal. That they are endowed by their
Creator with certain inalienable rights. That among these are life, liberty
and the pursuit of happiness."
That is the true genius of America, a faith in the simple dreams of its
people, the insistence on small miracles. That we can tuck in our children at
night and know they are fed and clothed and safe from harm. That we can say
what we think, write what we think, without hearing a sudden knock on the
door. That we can have an idea and start our own business without paying a
bribe or hiring somebody's son. That we can participate in the political
process without fear of retribution, and that our votes will be counted -- or
at least, most of the time.
This year, in this election, we are called to reaffirm our values and
commitments, to hold them against a hard reality and see how we are measuring
up, to the legacy of our forbearers, and the promise of future generations.
And fellow Americans -- Democrats, Republicans, Independents -- I say to you
tonight: we have more work to do. More to do for the workers I met in
Galesburg, Illinois, who are losing their union jobs at the Maytag plant
that's moving to Mexico, and now are having to compete with their own children
for jobs that pay seven bucks an hour. More to do for the father I met who was
losing his job and choking back tears, wondering how he would pay $4,500 a
month for the drugs his son needs without the health benefits he counted on.
More to do for the young woman in East St. Louis, and thousands more like her,
who has the grades, has the drive, has the will, but doesn't have the money to
go to college.
Don't get me wrong. The people I meet in small towns and big cities, in
diners and office parks, they don't expect government to solve all their
problems. They know they have to work hard to get ahead and they want to. Go
into the collar counties around Chicago, and people will tell you they don't
want their tax money wasted by a welfare agency or the Pentagon. Go into any
inner city neighborhood, and folks will tell you that government alone can't
teach kids to learn. They know that parents have to parent, that children
can't achieve unless we raise their expectations and turn off the television
sets and eradicate the slander that says a black youth with a book is acting
white. No, people don't expect government to solve all their problems. But
they sense, deep in their bones, that with just a change in priorities, we can
make sure that every child in America has a decent shot at life, and that the
doors of opportunity remain open to all. They know we can do better. And they
want that choice.
In this election, we offer that choice. Our party has chosen a man to lead
us who embodies the best this country has to offer. That man is John Kerry.
John Kerry understands the ideals of community, faith, and sacrifice, because
they've defined his life. From his heroic service in Vietnam to his years as
prosecutor and lieutenant governor, through two decades in the United States
Senate, he has devoted himself to this country. Again and again, we've seen
him make tough choices when easier ones were available. His values and his
record affirm what is best in us.
John Kerry believes in an America where hard work is rewarded. So instead
of offering tax breaks to companies shipping jobs overseas, he'll offer them
to companies creating jobs here at home. John Kerry believes in an America
where all Americans can afford the same health coverage our politicians in
Washington have for themselves. John Kerry believes in energy independence, so
we aren't held hostage to the profits of oil companies or the sabotage of
foreign oil fields. John Kerry believes in the constitutional freedoms that
have made our country the envy of the world, and he will never sacrifice our
basic liberties nor use faith as a wedge to divide us. And John Kerry believes
that in a dangerous world, war must be an option, but it should never be the
first option.
A while back, I met a young man named Shamus at the VFW Hall in East
Moline, Illinois. He was a good-looking kid, six-two or six-three, clear eyed,
with an easy smile. He told me he'd joined the Marines and was heading to Iraq
the following week. As I listened to him explain why he'd enlisted, his
absolute faith in our country and its leaders, his devotion to duty and
service, I thought this young man was all any of us might hope for in a child.
But then I asked myself: Are we serving Shamus as well as he was serving us? I
thought of more than 900 service men and women, sons and daughters, husbands
and wives, friends and neighbors, who will not be returning to their
hometowns. I thought of families I had met who were struggling to get by
without a loved one's full income, or whose loved ones had returned with a
limb missing or with nerves shattered, but who still lacked long-term health
benefits because they were reservists. When we send our young men and women
into harm's way, we have a solemn obligation not to fudge the numbers or shade
the truth about why they're going, to care for their families while they're
gone, to tend to the soldiers upon their return, and to never ever go to war
without enough troops to win the war, secure the peace, and earn the respect
of the world.
Now let me be clear. We have real enemies in the world. These enemies must
be found. They must be pursued and they must be defeated. John Kerry knows
this. And just as Lieutenant Kerry did not hesitate to risk his life to
protect the men who served with him in Vietnam, President Kerry will not
hesitate one moment to use our military might to keep America safe and secure.
John Kerry believes in America. And he knows it's not enough for just some of
us to prosper. For alongside our famous individualism, there's another
ingredient in the American saga.
A belief that we are connected as one people. If there's a child on the
south side of Chicago who can't read, that matters to me, even if it's not my
child. If there's a senior citizen somewhere who can't pay for her
prescription and has to choose between medicine and the rent, that makes my
life poorer, even if it's not my grandmother. If there's an Arab American
family being rounded up without benefit of an attorney or due process, that
threatens my civil liberties. It's that fundamental belief -- I am my
brother's keeper, I am my sisters' keeper -- that makes this country work.
It's what allows us to pursue our individual dreams, yet still come together
as a single American family. "E pluribus unum." Out of many, one.
Yet even as we speak, there are those who are preparing to divide us, the
spin masters and negative ad peddlers who embrace the politics of anything
goes. Well, I say to them tonight, there's not a liberal America and a
conservative America -- there's the United States of America. There's not a
black America and white America and Latino America and Asian America; there's
the United States of America. The pundits like to slice-and-dice our country
into Red States and Blue States; Red States for Republicans, Blue States for
Democrats. But I've got news for them, too. We worship an awesome God in the
Blue States, and we don't like federal agents poking around our libraries in
the Red States. We coach Little League in the Blue States and have gay friends
in the Red States. There are patriots who opposed the war in Iraq and patriots
who supported it. We are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the
stars and stripes, all of us defending the United States of America.
In the end, that's what this election is about. Do we participate in a
politics of cynicism or a politics of hope? John Kerry calls on us to hope.
John Edwards calls on us to hope. I'm not talking about blind optimism here --
the almost willful ignorance that thinks unemployment will go away if we just
don't talk about it, or the health care crisis will solve itself if we just
ignore it. No, I'm talking about something more substantial. It's the hope of
slaves sitting around a fire singing freedom songs; the hope of immigrants
setting out for distant shores; the hope of a young naval lieutenant bravely
patrolling the Mekong Delta; the hope of a millworker's son who dares to defy
the odds; the hope of a skinny kid with a funny name who believes that America
has a place for him, too. The audacity of hope!
In the end, that is God's greatest gift to us, the bedrock of this nation;
the belief in things not seen; the belief that there are better days ahead. I
believe we can give our middle class relief and provide working families with
a road to opportunity. I believe we can provide jobs to the jobless, homes to
the homeless, and reclaim young people in cities across America from violence
and despair. I believe that as we stand on the crossroads of history, we can
make the right choices, and meet the challenges that face us. America!
Tonight, if you feel the same energy I do, the same urgency I do, the same
passion I do, the same hopefulness I do -- if we do what we must do, then I
have no doubt that all across the country, from Florida to Oregon, from
Washington to Maine, the people will rise up in November, and John Kerry will
be sworn in as president, and John Edwards will be sworn in as vice president,
and this country will reclaim its promise, and out of this long political
darkness a brighter day will come. Thank you and God bless you.
posted on July 28, 2004 04:27:15 PM new
Linda, This great speech is about the need for unity in this country with a positive message that such unity is possible under the right leadership. This is a very conservative speech and even Republicans see it as magnificent.
posted on July 28, 2004 05:15:57 PM new
Barack Obama is a radical leftie. Voting record shows him further left than even kerry....who's our MOST liberal voting senator.
Unity?
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~