posted on September 6, 2004 07:09:53 AM newWhere are people being beheaded, burned and stoned for believing in homosexuality
Iran. Afghanistan. Yamen. There are many other countries where homosexuality is punishable by prison terms.
Yeager, I was watching the history channel this weekend and there was a show called the "History of Sex". It was about sex in the Japanese culture during the age of Buddha. In the show they talked about polygamy. They also brought up the topic of homosexuality among the samurai and the bond between the older samurai and their apprentice.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 6, 2004 06:26:25 PM new
logan,
I watched that too. Very interesting show. The one right before that one was the episode regard sex in early American times. The Puritans. What a laugh.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 6, 2004 06:31:30 PM new
Homosexuality has been around since the ancient times. If some people think it will be going away, they are only fooling themselves.
It just amazes me how American is the only country that is so hung up about sex - the only country where sex is so taboo.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
First of all, you say that god created everyone and everything.
Then I point out to you that christianity is the newer religion of the world, being about 2,000 years old.
I point our to you that wicca was the "Old Religion", and it was the primary religion of Europe until about 1400-1500. You even said that you practiced wicca for a period of 14 years before you converted to christianity. I asked you to consider the fact that your grand parents of 20 generations ago very likely practiced wicca.
I asked you to consider where their souls are now in the fact wiccans don't believe in heaven or hell. You replied a place called Hades, aka hell.
I asked you to consider a 1 year old child who dies in a car accident, who would have no concept of heaven or hell. The same with American Indians before christianity was introduced to them.
So, here are today's questions.
If god created all man, even man before the christian religion was formed, why would god allow them to end up in hades?
Why would god allow a 1 year old child, who doesn't have any concept of jesus end up in hades.
What about the American Indians? They couldn't even speak English or read a bible in English. How would they know about the christian religion before the European settlers came here. Why would god allow them to end up in hades too?
What about the 10 year old Amish boy killed in a farm accident. Not a sinner, and not baptized until he would have been 18. Would god allow him to be in hell too?
Now Rick, please don't tell me all of these people end up in hell in the fact they didn't have the ability to understand it, or the concept introduced to them.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 6, 2004 07:29:12 PM new
CC say,
"I tell you the truth, a man who looks at a woman with lust in his heart has committed adultery in his heart." A paraphrase from the NT.
From dictionary.com
adultery
a·dul·ter·y
n. pl. a·dul·ter·ies
Voluntary sexual intercourse between a married person and a partner other than the lawful spouse.
Now, to you, is adultery an emotional issue, or a physical act. Many couples have been divorced for adultery when one engages in intercourse with another partner, not by looking at another person.
Edited to say......
If you don't want a gay marriage, then don't get one. The same goes for an abortion.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 7, 2004 09:05:57 AM new
First off, Christianity isn't a "new religion" as you say, it is the fulfillment of Judaism. It's roots are in the Old Testament, which is the Jewish belief.
Second, a sin committed in the heart is just as answerable as a sin in the flesh.
If god created all man, even man before the Christian religion was formed, why would god allow them to end up in hades?
During our short life here we make lots of choices. God allows us to choose. One choice we make is whether or not we believe in God and in his son Jesus, being necessary for our salvation. Heaven and Hell are a reflection of our choice. If we choose to believe, we spend the rest of eternity with God. If we don't, we spend the rest of eternity separated from God. God doesn't want you to do something against your own will any more than you want to be with God if you don't even acknowledge him. If you don't believe in God, do you really want to spend eternity with him?
Why would god allow a 1 year old child, who doesn't have any concept of Jesus end up in hades.
Where did you ever get the notion that God sends babies to hell? I wouldn't serve a God that would do such a thing any more than you would. If you have some credible source on this believe, please tell me. It would be a first.
What about the American Indians? They couldn't even speak English or read a bible in English. How would they know about the Christian religion before the European settlers came here. Why would god allow them to end up in hades too?
Yes, this does sound difficult and implausible, that God would send people to hell without even knowing that there WAS a God. The Bible teaches that God created everything, and that His entire creation testifies that He exists. Just by looking at the trees, birds, and nature. I actually met a man that denied God existed but conceded that there must be something because of nature itself. However, God is God and I am not. I don't know all the details of how God might reveal Himself to someone who never sees a Bible or hears a sermon. But I agree that God would never send someone to hell just because he didn't know. And I would never serve a God who does that.
What about the 10 year old Amish boy killed in a farm accident. Not a sinner, and not baptized until he would have been 18. Would god allow him to be in hell too?
God is not vengeful or looking for something like an "I caught you on a technicality" kind of a God. God looks into your heart and soul. He knows your innermost thoughts and your true beliefs. He desires to know you and be with you. You're not going to be judged on a technicality. You will be judged on what you believe and what is truly in your heart. For the Amish boy, his salvation is secure if it were ever in question and something he could even grasp at that young age. When Jesus was crucified, there were two men who had been justly crucified for being thieves. One man believed in Jesus and who he was, the other did not. That day, one man was saved and now spends eternity with God. The other was not. Salvation is not a complicated thing. It's about a believe in a choice. It's through the choice that God makes a home in your life and continually, and gradually in most cases, changes your heart every day to be more like Him.
Many people are concerned that because they don't believe they will not go to heaven, according to the Christians of this world, because they don't believe in Jesus and the gift of salvation. This is all about choice and what you want to believe, not the technicalities that you have attempted to raise. God wants a real relationship with you. He does truly want to know you and spend eternity with you, even though none of us deserve this.
But ultimately he allows us to make a choice. It is our choice, to believe or not, that determines our existence in eternity. Hey, if you don't believe in God anyway, would you want to spend eternity with Him? God loves his creation and desires to spend eternity with you and hopes that you want to as well, but only by your willingness.
I am not going to debate minor technicalities with you, because it is getting us nowhere. For every "point" you wish to make, you bring up another "point", kind of like a long division problem using pi, it will never end. If you have some real questions on the truth of Jesus and the Bible, I will gladly answer them.
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 8:28-39
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
Wouldn't it be fair to say the American Indians had their own religious beliefs and system of beliefs before the settlers came here?
Wouldn't it be fair to say that they also had their own system for a belief of afterlife?
Wouldn't it be fair to say that many or some American Indians still practice their own ancient religions, without the interpretation of the bible or any other European religion?
Isn't it fair to say that there are so many religions and different branches of religion in the world because there are all based on interpretation?
Some people interpret different passages of the bible differently from others.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 7, 2004 04:55:27 PM new
Yeager, you will not get anywhere with the Christian right. All they know is things are either black or white. All they believe is what is expressly written in the Bible. The Bible is their guide, road map if you which. They only adhere to what is in the bible and can not make any judgements for themselves. They live in this fantasy world of how things used to be 2000 years ago.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 7, 2004 05:06:39 PM new
logans, i have to wonder if the bible is their roadmap as you say, why are you, yeager and the others always wanting to tell them they are going the wrong way??
Because you think they tell you, you are going the wrong way? Seems to me, they simply state what they believe and others just want to debunk it because they cant/wont/dont tolerate that belief?
..
..
~~ Keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues(forces)of life..Proverbs 4:23~~
posted on September 7, 2004 06:21:59 PM new
neroter - I think you've hit the nail on it's head.
It's been mentioned before, many hundreds of times , that we are the intolerant ones. But then when it comes to issues we believe are being forced on us.....that's a totally different story in their minds eye it appears.
We're to set our morals/values aside and have tolerance for absolutely anything they believe should be allowed in our society, but the same standard they ask for from us [tolerance] doesn't come from their side.
If these discussions on religion were only to gain information on how the religious think, feel and on what basis we have formed our own belief systems...that would be different. But they're usually just to point out how wrong we are in our beliefs. To mock us for those beliefs and critizice the choices we've made....standards we've set for our lives.
posted on September 7, 2004 10:53:49 PM new
logan,
I think that is right. They are living their life from a book written 2000+ - years ago. Now I bet if they had the need to use a dictionary to look up a word and there was 2 dictionaries available to them for this. One of them was from 1900, and the second one was from 2000, they would choose the one form 2000 in the fact it is more accurate in it's meaning. The one from 1900 would have obsolete words and definitions too. The one from 1900 would of course have much interesting reading to it, but I wouldn't put to much wieght to it.
nero says,
Because you think they tell you, you are going the wrong way? Seems to me, they simply state what they believe and others just want to debunk it because they cant/wont/don't tolerate that belief?
You hit that right on the head. It's only a belief and not a fact.
Linda says,
We're to set our morals/values aside and have tolerance for absolutely anything they believe should be allowed in our society, but the same standard they ask for from us [tolerance] doesn't come from their side.
Linda has it ever occurred to you that members of society are NOT homogeneous (the same). There are different types of people in ever society and in every country. That includes the US. The people of the non religious right are not trying to force their beliefs on "you and your people", as you are trying to keep them from reaching their goals for their lives.
I would bet they wouldn't care if you went to church 7 days a week and danced in the aisles and on the pews. It would not affect them. What does have an affect on them is when you and your people try to prevent them from reaching their goals.
Your going to church has nothing to do with anyone else, until the time YOU try to force YOUR BELIEF ON THEM. Their lives don't affect you, and yours shouldn't affect them.
Linda says,
To mock us for those beliefs and criticize the choices we've made....standards we've set for our lives.
Nobody does that Linda. You people create the problem for yourselves when you try to IMPOSE YOUR STANDARD ON OTHERS. You get what you deserve. Live your own life and leave others alone.
It's simple. If you don't want a Gay Marriage, then don't get one. If you don't want an abortion, then don't get one. But when the religious right tries to impose their BELIEFS on others, then they create their own problems.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 7, 2004 11:00:40 PM new
yeager - I couldn't disagree with you more.
I look at it this way. We, as American's, all have a say and one vote and ALL have the right to make our own life decisions. We are equal in that way. So...when an issue comes up that forces one to make moral/value decisions....the religious are just as intitled to vote their opinion as you are.
That's what you don't like. You don't like that we are equal and also have a say in the direction our society will take in many cultural issues. But...we do. That's what's great about living in America.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on September 7, 2004 11:29:04 PM new
I tell you what, yeager. Here are 5 facts about Jesus Christ and His claims that are beyond dispute.
1)The disciples died for their belief's:
When Jesus was crucified, his followers were in disarray. they believed anyone who suffered that type of death was cursed by God. They dispersed, and the Jesus movement was stopped in it's tracks.
Then, after a short period of time, they came back together. And they spread a very specific message: that Jesus Christ was the Messiah who had died on the Cross, returned to life, and was seen by them. And they were willing to spend the rest of their lives proclaiming this, without any payoff from a human point of view. The vast majority of them were executed in torturous ways. Why? Because they were willing to die for something they had seen with their own eyes and touched with their own hands! When you have 11 credible people with no alterior motive, with nothing to gain and everything to lose, who all agreed they observed something with their own eyes, you have some difficulty explaining that away.
People will die for their religious beliefs if they sincerely believe they're true, but people won't die for their religious beliefs if they know their belief's are false. While most people can only have a faith that their belief is true, the disciples were in a position to know without a doubt wether or not Jesus had risen from the dead.
2) The Conversion of skeptics:
There were hardened skeptics who didn't believe in Jesus before His crucifixion-and were to some degree dead set against Christianity-who turned around and adopted the Christian faith after the death of Jesus. There is no good reason for this apart from them having experienced the resurrected Christ.
Now, lets take a look at Muhammad's conversion. No one knows anything about it. He claims he went into a cave and had a religious experience in which Allah revealed the Koran to him. There is no other eyewitness to verify this. Muhammad offered no publicly miraculous signs to certify this. In the early years of Islam, it was spread by warfare, so people would have an alterior motive to follow him.
3) Changes to key social structures
The thing that made the Jew;s jew's was their complex social structure-they were unbelieveable important to them. The Jews would pass these structures down to their children, celibrate them in synagogue meetings every Sabbath, reinforce them with their rituals, because they knew if they didn't, there would be no more Jewish Nation. They would be assimilated into the conquring nations.
All of a sudden, after the death of a Nazarene carpenter, these Jewish people no longer offered sacrifices. Withen a short time after Jesus' death, Jews were begining to say that you don't become an upstanding member of their community merly by keeping Moses' laws. The Jews worshipped every saturday. Suddenly, after the death of Jesus, this 1500 year tradition abruptly changed. These Christians worship on Sunday, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
How can you explain why in such a short period of time not just one Jew but an entire community of at least 10,000 Jews were willing to give up these key practices that had served them sociologically and theologically for so many centuries? Simple: they had seen Jesus risen from the dead.
4) Communion and Baptism
Consider communion: the early followers didn't get together to celibrate His teachings or how wonderful He was. They came together for one reason: to remember that Jesus had been publicly slaughtered in a grotesque and humiliating way. Why did they do this? They realized that Jesus slaying was a necessary step to a much greater victory. His murder wasn't the last word- the last word was that He had conquered death for us all by rising from the dead. They celibrated his execution because they had seen Him alive from the tomb.
The early church adopted a form of baptism from their Jewish upbringing called proselyte baptism. The Jews would baptise people under the athority of the God of Israel. In the New Testiment, people were baptised in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit-which ment they elivated Jesus to the full status of God. And baptism is a celebration of the death of Jesus, just like communion is.
5) The emergence of the early church
It began shortly after the death of Jesus. Withen about 20 years it reached Caesar's palace in Rome. This movement triumphed over a number of competing ideologies and eventually overwhelmed the Roman Empire.
Now, if you were a martian looking down at first century, would you think that Christianity would survive the Roman Empire? You probably wouldn't put money on a ragtag group of people whose primary message was that of a crucified carpenter from an obscure village had triumphed over the grave. Yet, it was so successful that today we name our children Paul and John, and our animals Nero and Caesar.
If someone wants to consider this circumstantial ecidence and reach the verdic that Jesus did not rise from the dead, fair enough. But you must offer an alternitive explination that is plausible for all five of these facts.
Remember, there is no doubt that these facts are true: what is in question is how to explain them. And I have never seen a better explination then the Ressurection.
So, if Jesus is who He said He was in the Bible, doesn't make the Bible true? And if the Bible is indeed the infalible Word of God, then doesn't it make sense to read what He wants you to read. And when He said "It is finished", don't you want to know what He was speaking of? If He is who He claimed to be, then shouldn't you want to follow what He said? How about answering some of these questions.
In Christ,
Rick
John 3:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
edited because I accidently hit submit while I was finishing my post.
[ edited by ChristianCoffee on Sep 7, 2004 11:41 PM ]
posted on September 7, 2004 11:32:46 PM newI would bet they wouldn't care if you went to church 7 days a week and danced in the aisles and on the pews. It would not affect them.
Again I will point out there are many ways in which the non-religious work for changes that WILL affect the practice of our religion...guaranteed under our Constitution.
Say...should our Congress decide that stating gay relationships are wrong and immoral, according to their church's belief system, they could be arrested and charged with 'hate crimes' hate speech - against gays.
If the thinks it's wrong...immoral...they have a right to do so whether others like it or not. That's where these kind of issues hit the religious most deeply. Their religious convictions are being forced to change/be stopped because of some small minority group doesn't want them teaching their children homosexuality is wrong according to their religious beliefs.
The religious should have the right to say whatever they want to in their church...and imo, our in public too....but especially in their churches. YOU nor anyone else has the right to make their spiritual beliefs against the law....to appease a small minority group or a large one for that matter.
You and logan just don't like it that you are in the minority of American's who don't want gays/lesbians to be allowed to marry. Period. So you choose to constantly blame the religious for this...when in fact there aren't that many religious that would equal 38 states that have voted against gay marriage. Just goes to show that even non-religious people feel the same way. So your focus of it ONLY being a religious issue...is totally unfounded.
posted on September 7, 2004 11:37:47 PM new
Linda,
Would it be hard for you to live your life and let others live theirs? Your moral values don't have anything to do with mine. We are different people. I have never been in jail such as Bush has. I have never been to prison like Jimmy Bakker has. It seems that my morals have kept me out of these places.
The religious right tries to force the legal process to suit their needs. They have failed in many cases, i.e, Roe v Wade.
The simple fact is that society is ALWAYS CHANGING AND THE RELIGIOUS RIGHTS CAN'T ACCEPT THAT!
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 7, 2004 11:45:32 PM new
ChristianCoffee -
from your post:
They came together for one reason: to remember that Jesus had been publicly slaughtered in a grotesque and humiliating way.
I finally watched The Passion on DVD this past weekend. Very moving...and brought to life [so much more than reading about it] what he went though for *us*.
posted on September 7, 2004 11:53:02 PM new
Linda,
you are soooooooo right on that. The public has no right on what goes on inside a church. On the other hand, keep it in your church, and out of everyone's house!
Are you saying that is the case were that the majority of the population sees an issue in a certain way, then it should be the law. Sorry that is not the case. Blacks are in a minority, so are the disabled. However they have been granted rights too under the LAW, regardless of what the religious right feels on the issue. It took a long time for this to happen, but it did.
I think that same will go for the Gay Marriage issue. When it comes to a vote on the Supreme Court, I think they will allow all citizens to have the same benefits of being an American. I really don't see the court creating two different segments of population here.
Again, if you don't want a Gay Marriage, then don't get one. Nobody is forcing one on you. The same goes for abortion.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 7, 2004 11:56:27 PM new
Linda, He went through it for everyone. I understand what you mean, though. I went to a place called Chunkies to view it when it first came out, and there wasn't a dry eye in the place. Every time He was scourged, I flinched: not because it was "gross", but because I saw what He went through for me. What He went through for all of humanity. That is the true message of "The Passion": what He went through to reconcile us to God.
In Christ,
Rick
Acts 22:14-16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 8, 2004 12:00:18 AM new
Linda,
In case you don't realize it, Mel Gibson created a Hollywood version of what he thought should be presented in the history of christianity.
He directed this movie and all the happenings in it. If he didn't like the amount of blood used in any particular scene, then he ordered more blood to be used before the cameras rolled again.
If he didn't like how slow the actor who was dragging the cross, then he ordered the cross to be dragged more slowly.
If he didn't like the anguish on the face of the actor, then he order the actor to create an expression of more anguish.
How weak in your mind Linda?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 8, 2004 12:00:23 AM newLinda, Would it be hard for you to live your life and let others live theirs?
No it's not hard for me to do. I live my life and let others live their lives. But when it comes to making laws...changing laws...etc. as I said I have a vote just as you do. And I will follow my own convictions.
The religious right tries to force the legal process to suit their needs.
Just as you, logan and others do. You just can't see it from both sides. Again...we each have one vote.
They have failed in many cases, i.e, Roe v Wade. Agreed...but that doesn't mean it's the end of the issue. There will always be some trying for that change just as you and logan do for what you want to see become law.
The simple fact is that society is ALWAYS CHANGING AND THE RELIGIOUS RIGHTS CAN'T ACCEPT THAT!
Are you screaming?
Can't handle that people hold a different life view than you do? Sure appears that way to me.
Sure society's always changing. And for the last few years those deciding that they want to make religion a part of their life is growing...where it had been declining for a number of years. It will continue to swing in the opposite direction. Many are feeling a 'lack of something' in their lives...and some are finding it in a religion. Some who were religious have turned away...but their basic foundation and belief system is still there.
posted on September 8, 2004 12:16:51 AM new
ChristianCoffee - I apologize, my wording is usually severely lacking. When I said 'us', everyone was included in my 'us'.
--------------------
On the other hand, keep it in your church, and out of everyone's house! This is another area of contention. NOwhere in our Constitution is there any mention of limits on where we can practice our religion. Nowhere. Little by little changes are being forced on them. And that's getting real old and is the main reason so many are now working to stop/reverse that process.
Are you saying that is the case were that the majority of the population sees an issue in a certain way, then it should be the law.
On the gay marriage issue....the people in all the states are voting on it. With 38 states having passed laws stating it's not allowed...yes, I believe that's how it should be. But since the MASS. judges ruling....now the Constitutional amendment has been more necessary.
Sorry that is not the case. Blacks are in a minority, so are the disabled. However they have been granted rights too under the LAW, regardless of what the religious right feels on the issue. It took a long time for this to happen, but it did.
That's correct, but reversable with more conservative USSC judges on the bench. Another reason the outcome of this election is so very
important.
I think that same will go for the Gay Marriage issue. When it comes to a vote on the Supreme Court, I think they will allow all citizens to have the same benefits of being an American. I really don't see the court creating two different segments of population here. I do.
Again, if you don't want a Gay Marriage, then don't get one. Nobody is forcing one on you. The same goes for abortion. Again we each have one vote....and will vote our OWN convictions.
posted on September 8, 2004 01:19:47 AM new
Linda??????
Sorry that is not the case. Blacks are in a minority, so are the disabled. However they have been granted rights too under the LAW, regardless of what the religious right feels on the issue. It took a long time for this to happen, but it did.
that's correct, but reversable with more conservative USSC judges on the bench. Another reason the outcome of this election is so very important.
Are you saying that you would like to see the rights of Blacks and other minorities and the rights of the disabled dissolved?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
Sorry, I really can't relate to your long post on the several topics that you mentioned. I prefer to watch the History Chanel and the history or religion series they show.
Also, you mentioned looking at a hot women and the consequences of that. What about Matthew 5:29.
Matthew 5:29
And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Shouldn't you pluck out your right eye to prevent your going to hell?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 8, 2004 05:24:38 AM new
cute yeager - What are you up to now? Taking a question you asked and putting my answer to another of your questions under it.
very...sneaky. But not at all the question my answer was addressing.
-----------
Linda??????
Sorry that is not the case. Blacks are in a minority, so are the disabled. However they have been granted rights too under the LAW, regardless of what the religious right feels on the issue. It took a long time for this to happen, but it did.
my answer to another of your questions: that's correct, but reversable with more conservative USSC judges on the bench. Another reason the outcome of this election is so very important.
sad when you choose to use this deception in a conversation.
And my answer would be no. Blacks and the disabled have absolutely nothing to do with gay marriage - are not at all comparable. Men who are homosexuals CAN marry...they do have that same 'right' we all do. They just can't marry other men except in MA....and those 'marriages' may be voided in 2006...just like all the other ones the activist judges preformed have been.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"One thing is for sure: the extremists have faith in our weakness. And the weaker we are, the more they will come after us." --Tony Blair
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"The War on Terror will not be won until America is united. And as long as Democrats target the Bush administration -- not the terrorists -- as the enemy, we are in trouble." --Oliver North
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Those are only two reasons why we need to:
posted on September 8, 2004 05:55:22 AM new
Amazing, yeager, that you would only rely on one source for your information. My long post is embedded in historical facts, which if you but took the time to study you would understand. However, I understand why you would rely on the History channel, because anything they do on Christianity or the Bible is always left leaning.
As to plucking my eye out, if you understood why Jesus died on the Cross, you would also understand the metaphor behind His statement. I no longer would have to do that, because He died to reconcile everyone to God. My sins are forgiven when I confess them, and repent of my sins.
Also, the Bible was not completely gathered together until @180 AD, so the writings are only @1800 years old.
Are you even going to attempt to answer any of my questions? I have taken the time to answer all of yours. If not, then I guess I truly understand where you are coming from.
Linda, I took no offense to what you wrote: I was only trying to emphasis a point for yeager and others. I knew what you meant.
In Christ,
Rick
Mark 8:35-38
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 8, 2004 06:34:04 AM newIt's been mentioned before, many hundreds of times , that we are the intolerant ones. But then when it comes to issues we believe are being forced on us.....that's a totally different story in their minds eye it appears.
But when I stick to the issues I believe in I am pushing my agenda. Funny how the right can push their agenda because it is what they believe in but when other people do the same thing it is wrong. They can't have it both ways.
It has already been pointed out that abortion is against the bible and everything the religious ones believe in but hey no one is pushing for a constitutional amendment banning abortion. Again the religious right can make up an excuse as to why that is exceptable and other things are not.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
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YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
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We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 8, 2004 06:36:15 AM new
Linda, CC, yeager is just refuses to see that the homosexuals are forcing their chosen lifestyle upon the rest of America... many states had already decided the issue but criminals in Ca and other states have changed that, now it must be put forth to the people, MO has spoken, just as MA will get a chance in 2006, to keep comparing black civil rights to homosexuals is degrading to that proud movement. and of course many of the black community do not agree to homosexual marriage...
That is why kerry is losing some of their vote.
This issue is another of the major issues dragging kerry down... he will have to come out before the election with a stance on it, that will prove interesting.
The USSC will not even see a case after HR 3313 passes in the Senate and is signed into law... each state will make their own decisions.
No one cared about homosexuals until this issue arose, they have brought this backlash upon themselves and have only their own misguided choices to blame.
I notice yeager has previously said that MI will not allow their people to vote on the issue this year.... it will tie up the courts for the next few years and I think you will see it on their ballot in the near future.
posted on September 8, 2004 06:39:56 AM newYou and logan just don't like it that you are in the minority of American's who don't want gays/lesbians to be allowed to marry. Period. So you choose to constantly blame the religious for this...when in fact there aren't that many religious that would equal 38 states that have voted against gay marriage. Just goes to show that even non-religious people feel the same way. So your focus of it ONLY being a religious issue...is totally unfounded
Wow Linda I wonder what you would have said about slavery if you were alive back then when that issue being discussed. I would want you would have said or said about the black civil rights movement. Hey I bet you would have fought for women's rights even if the majority the country voiced their opinion against it.
Since you believe it is not a religious issue just on the basis of equality then gays should have the same rights as every one else.
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
We the people, in order to form a more perfect Union....
.....one Nation indivisible, With Liberty and Justice for ALL.
posted on September 8, 2004 06:46:58 AM new
What does homosexuality and slavery have to do with one another?
Slaves have/had no choice.
Homosexual's do.
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 8:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
, that we are the intolerant ones. But then when it comes to issues we believe are being forced on us.....that's a totally different story in their minds eye it appears.
