posted on September 12, 2004 05:14:37 AM new
linda,
Morally-minded people are losing their liberty to speak out against homosexuality as a moral issue or follow their consciences on it in the public square.
Yeah, I know what you mean on that. It's the same thing that happened about 50 years ago when the "coloreds" started to take over and you had to keep your mouth shut with them. They wanted to control everything. Now look at them. They have been moving into white neighborhood now for years.
You are aware that morals have always changed since the start of time. Things that were considered outragious 50 years ago, are considered mild by today's standards. An example might be Elvis and his "hip wiggling dancing" that was denounced as unacceptable behavior in the 1950's. In today's standards, it's nothing.
Linda, you are definitely the queen of C&P.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 12, 2004 05:29:44 AM new
twelve,
I agree with kraft when she says.....
"I just think it's too bad you choose to carry around so much added baggage."
In a way, I do feel sorry for you. You weren't born with this baggage, nobody is born with any baggage. It's acquired from some life experience. You should do something to unlearn this feeling towards gay men and women.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 12, 2004 06:44:09 AM new
When you answer my question yeager, I will adress yours... until then you get nothing more from me... you afraid to let people know your basis for supporting such deviancy? Why are you afraid, you not strong enough in your convictions that you're afraid of something I might say? LOL Yeah strong support there...
kraft, your very answer shows how little you take into someone's beliefs and morals... who the hell are you? Someone that doesn't even live here...
You accept those deviants in Canada, like I said fine... they are not accepted here... let'em move.
Homosexuality is wrong... they made the choice and now expect equal treatment... sorry as the saying goes... they are not worthy...
posted on September 12, 2004 07:22:01 AM newThere is a difference between killing and punishment...
Yes there is but that still does not give the government the right to kill. There are numerous forms of punishment that can be handed down without killing some one in the process.
You keep saying homosexuality is wrong, but so is abortion, so is the death penalty but the government still allows and makes these issues legal. I guess are OK because the majority of society approves them.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 12, 2004 07:26:44 AM new
Yeager: When you referred to logan and his afterlife, you stated, No, logansdad, we will not end up in the same place
Yeager, CC forgets that all a "sinner" has to do is repent and his sins will be forgiven. I am surprised that CC doesn't understand this concept at all. I just love how these religious people condem everyone else but yet they forget to mention all the wrong that takes within the Church itself. These people are just as much sinners as what they are accusing me of doing. In my opinion it is a lot worse because the people in the Church are supposed to be upholding God's law and ways.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 12, 2004 07:27:45 AM new
You are correct... you are allowed to make the choice to be homosexual, society has decided that a woman can abort a child and commit legal murder and the govt does met out punishment that includes the death penalty...
If you remember we did away with the death penalty for a period... it was voted back by the people...
I believe in the vote... if the state I live in votes to allow homosexual marriage, I will live with that... I will work to get a new vote, but will accept that...
However if your state votes to not allow homosexual marriage are you going to live with that and then work to get a new vote? or hope some criminal elected official breaks the law?
posted on September 12, 2004 07:30:39 AM new
Yeager: If you and your brother want to have sex, then go for it. You can do it once a day and twice on Sunday if you want, I don't care. The reason I don't care is simple. IT'S NONE OF MY BUSINESS, THAT'S WHY. But if you want a free trip to Chicago, then do it and call Jerry Springer and tell him about it. ok?
Oh yeager you make me laugh. I was thinking about this myself. If Linda feels so strongly about incest the Jerry Springer Show would be the best place for her to express her convinctions on it. I wonder if the militray would approve of such a relationship - a mother having sex with her son?
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 12, 2004 07:33:24 AM newHowever if your state votes to not allow homosexual marriage are you going to live with that and then work to get a new vote?
And what do you think I am doing...yes I am pushing for my state to change the current law.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 12, 2004 12:27:51 PM new
I have a question for yeager too. Yeager, do you, like logansdad, think ANY sexual act is acceptable since it doesn't affect your life....like have sex with animals. Is that okay with you too?
-------------------
logansdad says:
forgets that all a "sinner" has to do is repent and his sins will be forgiven. I am surprised that XX doesn't understand this concept at all.
ugh...No, YOU are the one who's not understanding this concept. To repent our sins and ask forgiveness is what the Bible calls for...when asked to be forgive ...it shall then be granted.
BUT where YOUR thought process deviates from reality is that you are then to work towards not repeating that same sin. Not that you're allowed to keep repeating the sin and all you have to do is to continue to ask forgiveness.
Maybe you'd better meet with your pedifile priest again and get this issue straight. Because obviously you've missed the ENTIRE concept.
I just love how these religious people condem everyone else but yet they forget to mention all the wrong that takes within the Church itself.
posted on September 12, 2004 12:33:11 PM newIf Linda feels so strongly about incest the Jerry Springer Show would be the best place for her to express her convinctions on it. I wonder if the militray would approve of such a relationship - a mother having sex with her son?
Okay...so now besides having sex with animals, incest is okay with you and yeager too - strickly because it won't effect either of you in your personal lives?
posted on September 12, 2004 01:32:40 PM new
I'd like for logansdad to answer my question first, KD, before I answer. And I'd like to hear yeager's too.
So now it appears we have three, KD, including you who think everything and anything is okay UNLESS it affects one person directly??? Am I clear on that being your position also KD? That at least three here think unless a behavior affects us directly then it's okay - allowed - no big deal? Is that also your position KD???
posted on September 12, 2004 05:54:56 PM new
Someone that has sex with animals is mentally ill, imo, but whether they do or not doesn't affect my life. But to equate homosexuality with drug users, pedophiles, rapists and all that, is just a way to control the masses into believing these people are bad news. I don't buy into it. It's false propaganda at it's worse.
Now I am really wondering on this. When you referred to logan and his afterlife, you stated, No, logansdad, we will not end up in the same place
That's 11 whole words used in a very direct sense to make your point.
Now, when I asked you about the pedophile priest, and then claimed that you clammed up on this issue, you said,
Sorry, yeager, I didn't clam up: I work in an industry (nursing) that on occasion demands a lot of my time. Just because you may have a cushy 40 hr a week job doesn't mean everyone else does. I also go to school (for my RN as well as taking writing classes) and do eBay, while taking care of my disabled wife and 2 youngest children (12 and 14, my 26 year old is married and helps out when she can). I have not clammed up while you were asking your silly questions, and I will not now. I just don't have the time or energy to discuss this with you: but in the near future (after my long work weekend) I will post replies to your assumptions.
You used 128 words to reply on how difficult and busy your life is. In your wording, you didn't mention the pedophile priest once. You could have used the same 11 words that you used when referring to logan, but you didn't. I am thinking that you will have some drawn out biblical reasoning for their behavior. Otherwise you would have been very clear on it in the first place.
So, I used 11 words to reply to logansdad: there is a simple reason for this. 11 words was all the answer took.
I used 128 words to explain why I wasn't around: maybe it is because I needed those words to show I wasn't ducking the issue you presented to me, and I was too tired to give a thoughtful answer to you.
First off, pedophile priests are homosexuals as well. As I have said before, not all homosexuals are pedophiles, but pedophiles who are "attracted" to the same gender are homosexuals as well.
Now, as to where these homosexual pedophile priests go after they die, that is a difficult answer. You are correct in one sense that if you ask for forgiveness you will be absolved of sin if you truly believe in the saving grace of Jesus Christ, but let us look a little deeper into it.
Paul says in Romans chapter 6:
[i]What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? 2By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.
5If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. 6For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with,[1] that we should no longer be slaves to sin-- 7because anyone who has died has been freed from sin.
8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, he cannot die again; death no longer has mastery over him. 10The death he died, he died to sin once for all; but the life he lives, he lives to God.
11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its evil desires. 13Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.[/i]
[i]15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? By no means! 16Don't you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey--whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you used to be slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were entrusted. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
19I put this in human terms because you are weak in your natural selves. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to ever-increasing wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness. 20When you were slaves to sin, you were free from the control of righteousness. 21What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ashamed of? Those things result in death! 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to holiness, and the result is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in[2] Christ Jesus our Lord.[/i]
Here is what the Apostle Paul is saying, broken down by section (Matthew Henry's Commentary):
Romans 6
Believers must die to sin, and live to God. (1,2) This is urged by their Christian baptism and union with Christ. (3-10) They are made alive to God. (11-15) And are freed from the dominion of sin. (16-20) The end of sin is death, and of holiness everlasting life. (21-23)
Verses 1-2 The apostle is very full in pressing the necessity of holiness. He does not explain away the free grace of the gospel, but he shows that connexion between justification and holiness are inseparable. Let the thought be abhorred, of continuing in sin that grace may abound. True believers are dead to sin, therefore they ought not to follow it. No man can at the same time be both dead and alive. He is a fool who, desiring to be dead unto sin, thinks he may live in it.
Verses 3-10 Baptism teaches the necessity of dying to sin, and being as it were buried from all ungodly and unholy pursuits, and of rising to walk with God in newness of life. Unholy professors may have had the outward sign of a death unto sin, and a new birth unto righteousness, but they never passed from the family of Satan to that of God. The corrupt nature, called the old man, because derived from our first father Adam, is crucified with Christ, in every true believer, by the grace derived from the cross. It is weakened and in a dying state, though it yet struggles for life, and even for victory. But the whole body of sin, whatever is not according to the holy law of God, must be done away, so that the believer may no more be the slave of sin, but live to God, and find happiness in his service.
Verses 11-15 The strongest motives against sin, and to enforce holiness, are here stated. Being made free from the reign of sin, alive unto God, and having the prospect of eternal life, it becomes believers to be greatly concerned to advance thereto. But, as unholy lusts are not quite rooted out in this life, it must be the care of the Christian to resist their motions, earnestly striving, that, through Divine grace, they may not prevail in this mortal state. Let the thought that this state will soon be at an end, encourage the true Christian, as to the motions of lusts, which so often perplex and distress him. Let us present all our powers to God, as weapons or tools ready for the warfare, and work of righteousness, in his service. There is strength in the covenant of grace for us. Sin shall not have dominion. God's promises to us are more powerful and effectual for mortifying sin, than our promises to God. Sin may struggle in a real believer, and create him a great deal of trouble, but it shall not have dominion; it may vex him, but it shall not rule over him. Shall any take occasion from this encouraging doctrine to allow themselves in the practice of any sin? Far be such abominable thoughts, so contrary to the perfections of God, and the design of his gospel, so opposed to being under grace. What can be a stronger motive against sin than the love of Christ? Shall we sin against so much goodness, and such love?
Verses 16-20 Every man is the servant of the master to whose commands he yields himself; whether it be the sinful dispositions of his heart, in actions which lead to death, or the new and spiritual obedience implanted by regeneration. The apostle rejoiced now they obeyed from the heart the gospel, into which they were delivered as into a mould. As the same metal becomes a new vessel, when melted and recast in another mould, so the believer has become a new creature. And there is great difference in the liberty of mind and spirit, so opposite to the state of slavery, which the true Christian has in the service of his rightful Lord, whom he is enabled to consider as his Father, and himself as his son and heir, by the adoption of grace. The dominion of sin consists in being willingly slaves thereto, not in being harassed by it as a hated power, struggling for victory. Those who now are the servants of God, once were the slaves of sin.
Verses 21-23 The pleasure and profit of sin do not deserve to be called fruit. Sinners are but ploughing iniquity, sowing vanity, and reaping the same. Shame came into the world with sin, and is still the certain effect of it. The end of sin is death. Though the way may seem pleasant and inviting, yet it will be bitterness in the latter end. From this condemnation the believer is set at liberty, when made free from sin. If the fruit is unto holiness, if there is an active principle of true and growing grace, the end will be everlasting life; a very happy end! Though the way is up-hill, though it is narrow, thorny, and beset, yet everlasting life at the end of it is sure. The gift of God is eternal life. And this gift is through Jesus Christ our Lord. Christ purchased it, prepared it, prepares us for it, preserves us to it; he is the All in all in our salvation.
The homosexual pedophile priests have not turned from their sin, they have not really repented because they refuse to change. They would rather be alive in their sin then dead to it.
They prefer their sin to the Way of life that Jesus and the apostles taught on. Also, those in a position of leadership (teaching) will be judged held to stricter standards then the average person. Ergo, it would seem that these homosexual pedophile priests would be condemned by their sinful actions. However....
God's Grace knows no bounds. When a person truly accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior (and God knows this), then a person who sins can change. They can find relief to their sins. If a person struggles in certain areas (for myself, it is alcohol: I have been dry for 11 years now), they learn to avoid these areas which would lead them to temptation, and ultimately, to sin.
What it really boils down to is this: man is sinful. His desires are for himself rather then their Lord. They prefer a life of sin to a life of Christ. But the out is here: Christ died for our sins so that we may be reconciled to Him, and gain a forgiveness that we can never attain for ourselves. All we have to do is trust in the One who came here to die for us.
As to those priests, I pray that they turn from their sins and return to a life of following Jesus. But, I tend to think (IMHO) that the ones who are homosexual pedophiles have never truly accepted Christ as their Savior. Otherwise, they would be able to repent of their sins and with the help of Christ, change. I cannot answer with absolution as to where they will go, but this is how I feel on this issue.
Now, you are going to ask me why I said that to logansdad. It is simple: he has never professed a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. As a matter of fact, he has said (I am paraphrasing here) that he learned everything he needed to know when he was in school. He has been dead set against Christianity in the vast majority of his posts. Ergo, we will not spend eternity in the same place. Why would he want to spend eternity with me, or vice versa, with our positions now? There is no reason for it. In my sig line I quote C.S. Lewis: read it carefully, and you will understand our diametrically opposed opinions.
There is a way for us all to spend eternity together, and that is through accepting Jesus Christ as our personal Savior. However, I know that there is nothing I can do to "make" you do this. It must be done freely on your own.
Now, I will most likely be accused of being a "Bible thumper" again, but so what. You wanted my POV, and I gave it to you.
BTW, are you going to count the words in my reply now?
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 5:6
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
[ edited by ChristianCoffee on Sep 12, 2004 11:19 PM ]
I can get long winded sometimes, but that comes with age.
At least I use my own thoughts, instead of C&Ping everything. (And no, I am not pointing the finger at anyone!)
In Christ,
Rick
Acts 28:26-28
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 12, 2004 11:21:28 PM new
It was a play on words, Bunni. I know I C&P'd a portion of the Bible and a commentary: it was to provide the background to what I was saying.
Off to bed now, hopefully I will be able to be on tonight sometime.
in Christ,
Rick
John 3:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 13, 2004 06:18:11 AM newOkay...so now besides having sex with animals, incest is okay with you and yeager too - strickly because it won't effect either of you in your personal lives?
I already answered this question before, but I will spell it out a little more clearly for those that are a bit slow......NO I DO NOT APPROVE OF THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR. However I do accept the fact that there are people out there that engage in all kinds of weird and bizarre sexual fetishes. If they want to do that in the privacy of their own homes then go ahead. Besides how the heck would I even be aware of what goes on behind their locked doors.
Just because you don't approve of it, and it is immoral will not stop people from doing it.
DICK CHENEY SUPPORTS MY RELATIONSHIP: People ought to be free to enter into any kind of relationship they want to
Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
YOU CAN'T HAVE BULLSH** WITH OUT BUSH.
------------------------------
posted on September 14, 2004 12:39:41 PM new
Well, I said that it would happen, and it did.
On Sept 12, I asked CC about the pedophile priest and if they would go to heaven after they died. In the fact that he used only 11 words to indicate that he and logan wouldn't end up in the same place. I suggested that he would give a long drawn out explanaiton. Here is what I said.
You could have used the same 11 words that you used when referring to logan, but you didn't. I am thinking that you will have some drawn out biblical reasoning for their behavior. Otherwise you would have been very clear on it in the first place.
He, CC used 24 paragraphs to explain the afterlife of pedophile priest. In one of the last paragraphs he says......
Now, you are going to ask me why I said that to logansdad. It is simple: he has never professed a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.
First of all I didn't read all of that blather. I am not a bible thumper so all of that is gibberish to me. But I have to ask you, if the pedophile priest ask for forgiveness, will they go to heaven. What about repeat offenders. You should be able to answer that in 11 words too.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 14, 2004 12:52:46 PM newFirst of all I didn't read all of that blather. I am not a bible thumper so all of that is gibberish to me. But I have to ask you, if the pedophile priest ask for forgiveness, will they go to heaven. What about repeat offenders. You should be able to answer that in 11 words too.
You were dealing with 2 different issues here, yeager. If you didn't read my entire response, then I can understand why you still have not found my answer.
Homosexual pedophile priests fall under a different heading then logansdad: they profess to follow Christ. Logansdad has never professed that. Ergo, a longer explanation was necessary.
Take the time to read it, yeager: it may just enlighten you.
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 6
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 14, 2004 12:53:50 PM new
Linda,
First of all, I didn't in any way say that having sex with animals is correct in any form. So don't speak for me. I think that it is a gross act. Oh, so is sex with animals too.
The fact is that you religious bible thumpers are grasping at straws when you bring up such nonsensical issues when talking about the Gay Marriage issue. You know that marrying animals and having sex with them is NOT RELATED the Gay Marriage issue. But in your weak minds, you need to drum up others issues to fuel your anti gay fire.
There is no person in the US that has or has tried to marry an animal. Also, where are your statistics on gays having sex with animals. I don't think that you have any in the fact there is none.
twelve,
First of all, who I am or what I am has NOTHING to do with you. I am here to post opinions and nothing more. I am not here to divulge any of my personal information. If I want to do that I will. I will select the amount of information also. I am not trying to change anyones mind either on any issue. I am here to educate the ignorant.
And I don't respond to stupid comments made about me either.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 14, 2004 12:59:55 PM new
CC says,
Homosexual pedophile priests fall under a different heading then logansdad
I get it now. So if a man wants to marry another man, and they are both gay, they are going to hell.
BUT!
If a man goes to a seminary and studies religion and becomes a priest, he can rape young boys and be forgiven. As long as he has jesus in his heart, right?
I guess there are two separate admission policies to heaven.
You are kidding right?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 14, 2004 01:10:21 PM new
CC says,
[i][b]Homosexual pedophile priests fall under a different heading then logansdad
I get it now. So if a man wants to marry another man, and they are both gay, they are going to hell. BUT! If a man goes to a seminary and studies religion and becomes a priest, he can rape young boys and be forgiven. As long as he has Jesus in his heart, right? I guess there are two separate admission policies to heaven. You are kidding right?[/i][/b]
Yet again you are incorrect, yeager, and if you but take the time to completely read my earlier answer to you, you would understand it.
Your tag line speaks of bigotry:are you not practicing what you are preaching against? Bigotry takes many forms, yeager: you have a very bigotedly POV of what I say, even though I take the time to read everything you ask of me. You disavow what I state in my answer as "Bible thumping", so does that not mean you have a....bigoted POV?
There are ways around bigotry, yeager: but you must first want to change.
In Christ,
Rick
John 3:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
C.S. Lewis: "Mere Christianity"
posted on September 14, 2004 01:28:48 PM new
Well, you are a bible thumper. EVERYTHING relates to the bible in your mind. You use bible passages in most of your postings. You expect everyone to read all that blather. If I wanted to read all of that, I wouldn't need you to supply me with it. I can find it on my own. It is so difficult for you to answer in simple everyday terms without relating to the bible. You are CONSUMED BY IT.
Also, when a person has strong convictions towards any issue, doesn't make them a bigot. That goes for me and for you too. When they try to disallow others from reaching or having happiness in their lives, or having rights to live a happier life that makes them a bigot.
Nobody is trying to push the Gay Marriage issue down your throat. If you don't want one, then don't get one. However, it is the bible thumpers and the religious right that is trying to control this issue. Even though it don't effect them. If you say it does in the fact that you don't want a small portion of society to have rights, then you are a bigot! That is based only on your beliefs. That's all.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 14, 2004 01:48:41 PM new
You are incorrect again, yeager. You are once more looking at the issue through your rose colored glasses.
See, homosexual "marriage" will lead to other things like polygamy, animal "unions" and others that will be nothing but a determent to society. But you, in your zeal, cannot see that: you are only concerned with what makes you feel good.
As to looking at things from a Biblical perspective, you are correct. If something is true, wouldn't you wish to base your life on it? There is hard evidence that the Bible is true: but, since you would not want to read my "blather", I will not "bore" you with the information. After all, you can find it on your own if you wanted to look for it.
You keep saying that homosexual "marriage" will not affect me or my family, because if we don't want one we don't get one. That is wrong: like I said before, it will open up the floodgates to other things that are even worse.
You wanted me to answer your question on homosexual pedophile priests, and I did. But since you either did not like my answer, or refuse to read it, then there is nothing to debate. Because to rationally debate an issue you must first take the time to listen(read) what the other person has written.
You are proud of the fact that you stand for something as perverse as homosexual "marriage", and you stand by your conviction. In that it is commendable: but you do not wish to hear others view points, and because of that you continue to try to post misinformation. You try to "lead" people into a point of view that just does not exist in my posts. And yet, when I asked you questions, you refused to answer them. My questions to you will be in my next post.
In Christ,
Rick
Genesis 1:1
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
posted on September 14, 2004 01:53:58 PM new
I tell you what, yeager. Here are 5 facts about Jesus Christ and His claims that are beyond dispute.
1)The disciples died for their belief's:
When Jesus was crucified, his followers were in disarray. they believed anyone who suffered that type of death was cursed by God. They dispersed, and the Jesus movement was stopped in it's tracks.
Then, after a short period of time, they came back together. And they spread a very specific message: that Jesus Christ was the Messiah who had died on the Cross, returned to life, and was seen by them. And they were willing to spend the rest of their lives proclaiming this, without any payoff from a human point of view. The vast majority of them were executed in torturous ways. Why? Because they were willing to die for something they had seen with their own eyes and touched with their own hands! When you have 11 credible people with no ulterior motive, with nothing to gain and everything to lose, who all agreed they observed something with their own eyes, you have some difficulty explaining that away.
People will die for their religious beliefs if they sincerely believe they're true, but people won't die for their religious beliefs if they know their belief's are false. While most people can only have a faith that their belief is true, the disciples were in a position to know without a doubt whether or not Jesus had risen from the dead.
2) The Conversion of skeptics:
There were hardened skeptics who didn't believe in Jesus before His crucifixion-and were to some degree dead set against Christianity-who turned around and adopted the Christian faith after the death of Jesus. There is no good reason for this apart from them having experienced the resurrected Christ.
Now, lets take a look at Muhammad's conversion. No one knows anything about it. He claims he went into a cave and had a religious experience in which Allah revealed the Koran to him. There is no other eyewitness to verify this. Muhammad offered no publicly miraculous signs to certify this. In the early years of Islam, it was spread by warfare, so people would have an ulterior motive to follow him.
3) Changes to key social structures
The thing that made the Jew;s Jew's was their complex social structure-they were unbelievable important to them. The Jews would pass these structures down to their children, celebrate them in synagogue meetings every Sabbath, reinforce them with their rituals, because they knew if they didn't, there would be no more Jewish Nation. They would be assimilated into the conquering nations.
All of a sudden, after the death of a Nazarene carpenter, these Jewish people no longer offered sacrifices. Within a short time after Jesus' death, Jews were beginning to say that you don't become an upstanding member of their community merely by keeping Moses' laws. The Jews worshiped every Saturday. Suddenly, after the death of Jesus, this 1500 year tradition abruptly changed. These Christians worship on Sunday, the day Jesus rose from the dead.
How can you explain why in such a short period of time not just one Jew but an entire community of at least 10,000 Jews were willing to give up these key practices that had served them sociologically and theologically for so many centuries? Simple: they had seen Jesus risen from the dead.
4) Communion and Baptism
Consider communion: the early followers didn't get together to celebrate His teachings or how wonderful He was. They came together for one reason: to remember that Jesus had been publicly slaughtered in a grotesque and humiliating way. Why did they do this? They realized that Jesus slaying was a necessary step to a much greater victory. His murder wasn't the last word- the last word was that He had conquered death for us all by rising from the dead. They celebrated his execution because they had seen Him alive from the tomb.
The early church adopted a form of baptism from their Jewish upbringing called proselyte baptism. The Jews would baptize people under the authority of the God of Israel. In the New Testament, people were baptized in the name of God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit-which meant they elevated Jesus to the full status of God. And baptism is a celebration of the death of Jesus, just like communion is.
5) The emergence of the early church
It began shortly after the death of Jesus. Within about 20 years it reached Caesar's palace in Rome. This movement triumphed over a number of competing ideologies and eventually overwhelmed the Roman Empire.
Now, if you were a martian looking down at first century, would you think that Christianity would survive the Roman Empire? You probably wouldn't put money on a ragtag group of people whose primary message was that of a crucified carpenter from an obscure village had triumphed over the grave. Yet, it was so successful that today we name our children Paul and John, and our animals Nero and Caesar.
If someone wants to consider this circumstantial evidence and reach the verdict that Jesus did not rise from the dead, fair enough. But you must offer an alternative explanation that is plausible for all five of these facts.
Remember, there is no doubt that these facts are true: what is in question is how to explain them. And I have never seen a better explanation then the Resurrection.
So, if Jesus is who He said He was in the Bible, doesn't make the Bible true? And if the Bible is indeed the infallible Word of God, then doesn't it make sense to read what He wants you to read. And when He said "It is finished", don't you want to know what He was speaking of? If He is who He claimed to be, then shouldn't you want to follow what He said? How about answering some of these questions.
How about it, will you really answer them?
In Christ,
Rick
John 3:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
posted on September 14, 2004 02:06:10 PM new
Well,
CC, you say, There is hard evidence that the Bible is true and that See, homosexual "marriage" will lead to other things like polygamy, animal "unions" and others that will be nothing but a determent to society. But you, in your zeal, cannot see that: you are only concerned with what makes you feel good.
Show me some hard evidence this will occur. There is none and you know it. It is only another attempt of the religious right and the fear they try to push on the rest of society. When a group of people, like you, are against something they will use any means to support their issue. Have you ever considered that a person has to consent to being married, and an aminal can't do that? In most states, animals are considered personal property, like a TV or a car. Marraige is a contract under law so, in order to enter into marraige, you must be legal to enter into a contract. This is a perfect example of how nonsensical that argument is.
As far as my not reading your religious blather, here's why. EVERYTHING in the bible is interpretations. What is means to one, is different to another. That is why I don't follow religion. Since there is no real meaning, then why follow it?
Also, were you born into a wicca family, or did you choose to follow that religion? Why did you choose to start following christianity when wicca served you well for 14 years?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on September 14, 2004 02:25:05 PM new
I will answer your questions, yeager, when you finally answer some of mine.
In Christ,
Rick
Romans 8:16
"I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: "I'm ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I do not accept His claim to be God." That is one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic....or else he would be the devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse. You can shut Him up for a fool, you can spit at Him and kill Him as a demon; or you can fall at His feet and call Him Lord and God. But let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about His being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to."
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
KD