posted on October 15, 2004 05:55:10 AM new
Why is it you must feel the need to bash someone's beliefs? Are you that insecure in your own that you feel the need to do so?
Are you afraid of religon and if so why? Is it because that it does make the majority of people feel good about themselves and you don't?
It seems when you ridicule those that believe and their beliefs you are the ones who are not acting civilly... when you ask questions about religon, you are fishing for material to ridicule... not to learn... join a church, read the bible... there are your answers, not off some internet message board...
posted on October 15, 2004 06:13:21 AM new
Well let's see........
"Believers" claim there is someone there that can't be seen and in fact has never provided any proof of any physical existence.
"Believers" claim they can talk to this invisible person.
"Believers" claim this invisible person can talk to them.
"Believers" claim this invisible person is all powerful and all knowing, and always right.
"Believers" claim this person is their reason for killing and/or condeming non-believers and each other.
BUT JUST THINK ABOUT IT. IF SOMEONE DID ALL THESE THINGS BUT INSTEAD OF USING THE TERM "GOD" THAT SAID IT WAS AN INVISIBLE HORSE OR DOG, WE WOULD CALL THEM CRAZY AND LOCK THEM UP, OR IF THEY KILLED BECAUSE THE INVISIBLE PERSON TOLD THEM TO, WE WOULD EXECUTE THEM.
BUT IF A MAJORITY CONDEM AND HARM OTHERS IN THE NAME OF GOD/JESUS/ALLAH, IT IS OK.
Religious beliefs are mental illness under any other name.
posted on October 15, 2004 06:24:12 AM new
Jesus was a liberal and it was the conservatives that crucified him.
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
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Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
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On This Week with George Stephanopoulos, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "the area… that coalition forces control… happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
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posted on October 15, 2004 06:36:38 AM new "BUT IF A MAJORITY CONDEM AND HARM OTHERS IN THE NAME OF GOD/JESUS/ALLAH, IT IS OK."
That is the major problem with religion, an irrational belief system used to justify and manipulate massive numbers of people to engage in killing and war.
posted on October 15, 2004 06:49:37 AM newkilling and war
But it is more than just killing and war. They also organize and institutionalize hate, intolerance, "us and them" attitudes, as well as mindless subservience by follwers.
BTW, when are the Cheney's going to stone their lesbian daughter ? After all, according to their American Taliban christian supporters, she is an abomination.
posted on October 15, 2004 07:30:36 AM new
Oh my, the highly religious twelves waxes philosophical.....
Twelve , if you're "religious"....that's one of the reasons I'm not.
And, yes, I'm afraid of religion, and everyone should be when our government starts saying "IT IS THE ONLY WAY TO THINK< YOU SHALL OBEY!" ACHTUNG!
And christians may think this is fine, forcing everyone in a supposedly "free" country to have the same religion or beliefs LIKE THE COMMUNISTS......but that might just bite them in the asp someday when a bigger, stronger "religion" comes along and rules America.
Why are you so afraid of people who don't share the same beliefs???????????
Great comment Helen, "That is the major problem with religion, an irrational belief system used to justify and manipulate massive numbers of people to engage in killing and war. "
But I would change the last three words to "just about anything"
posted on October 15, 2004 08:07:59 AM new
Right, Crowfarm and Reamond...I just had war on my mind after reading about the situation in Iraq today...include hate, intolerance, bigotry,...I could go on and on.
posted on October 15, 2004 07:11:02 PM newWhy is it you must feel the need to bash someone's beliefs?
You routinely bash the political beliefs of others on this board, why would religion be off limits? There's a difference between calling somebody a name because of their beliefs and rationally discussing differences. It doesn't mean you're "bashing" them.
I count myself among the religious here, but I don't feel that reamond or helen are "bashing" me just because we differ. I find common ground with their statements all the time, especially when they concern religious intolerance, which is rife here and in the rest of the country as well.
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on October 15, 2004 08:24:08 PM new
When people like Bush mixes his religion with politics it divides Churches,people, and American. I am not afraid of religion, I am afraid how leaders like Bush use it.
posted on October 15, 2004 08:36:29 PM new
My view of modern organized religion is pretty simple. It is the root of most of the world's problems today.
I was talking to a so called religious woman the other day about the be-headings in Iraq. She countered "we should go in there and bomb all of those cities where these terrorist are. She of course supports Bush.
Believers also think that an invisible god impregnated a virgin woman, and she gave birth to a son. This god then said I will allow society to hang my son from a cross until he dies. This is so that you will recognize that I am the only god and if you believe that my son died for your sins, then you will have an eternal live in a place called heaven.
Believers also it's OK to bomb abortion clinics, killing all humans in the building. Even if the doctor shares a building with an eye doctor.
Believers also think that it's OK to put the 10 commandments in a government building. The 10 commandments is of course from a christian religion and the christians want the government to recognize only their religion. They would protest very aggressively if a wicca star was placed next to the 10 commandments. Of course, this is the trait of a religious bigot.
Believers also think that a book called the bible if the only real book of personal guidance and should be followed by all people. The bible of course is open to so many different meanings. The catholics even have their own section that they have added to the bible, and with this, they think other bibles are basically useless.
Religious believers such as our own christian coffee think that committed gay men such as logansdad are not going to end up in the same place as he is when they die. In fact CC even said the priest that rape young boys fall into a "different category" than the every day gay man.
Religious nuts are the ones responsible for 4 jet airliners killing almost 4,000 people multi millions of dollars of property damage on 9-11-2001. Ask these people if their actions were correct, and they will answer absolutely YES! Every person thinks they are right in their religious beliefs. If you don't believe me, just ask them.
Also, twelve if you have started this thread about me, then go for it. I do start many threads about religion. I welcome your input. Religion is so unclear in so many areas that you would be easily painted into a corner. As CC said to me, "I am not going to discuss technicalities".
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 15, 2004 08:49:15 PM newTwelve , if you're "religious"....that's one of the reasons I'm not.
I am with you crow, he is the one who seems to defend religion but like the idea of harassing gay men and women. He even once said, they should be put on an island to live. And they should be thrown off a ship into the ocean then in the military.
He also has a very demeaning view of women.
So much for religion.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 15, 2004 08:49:37 PM new
You're a religious bigot... what is there to discuss, you won't read the Bible, or attend church, all you do is ridicule...
But then again the people of MI know the difference between right and wrong... unlike you.
posted on October 15, 2004 09:17:44 PM new
Twelve, you seem angry that I and others made so many clear points in a thread that you started.
Wow! That is a pretty broad statement. So all of the people in the world who don't read the bible or go to church are religious bigots?
But then again the people of MI know the difference between right and wrong...unlike you.
Does that mean that all the people in Michigan read the bible and go to church.
As far as them knowing the difference between right and wrong, you are right again. That's why 94 o/o of the Blacks in Detroit voted for Gore in 2000. I am thinking about the same percentage will be voting for Kerry this year.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 15, 2004 10:09:21 PM new
Not angry, just making my point that people that have been posting here seem to be miserable because those of religon are not...
I am thinking kerry will only get around 80% this time, many blacks are against homosexual marriage and kerry will not make a stand on that issue.
You also and the other seem to be missing the point that you ridicule what you yourselves won't seek to find the answers where the answers lie...
But let you wallow in your misery... after President Bush wins reelection... it will probably get worse for you... plus when that ban on homosexual marriage admendment passes in MI... yep you are going to have a long cold winter...
posted on October 16, 2004 02:41:55 AM newyou won't read the Bible, or attend church,
Why would I want to follow in the path of a bunch of people who have the traits that Reamond mentions?
not off some Internet message board...
Didn't you know that there are many christian message boards? These are the places where these people get support from each other.
Boy, you ask everyone for their opinion about religion, then you bash them for doing it. You should be thanking people for participating in your thread.
Apparently what you get from attending church is not improving your life. As far as the amendment goes in Michigan, it wouldn't have an affect on me. I don't plan on getting married to anyone, man or woman. But if I wanted to, I could get married to a woman and father children. Unlike you, I am not sterile. For example, under Hitler's law, you would be considered an inferior person. So, aren't you going to thank me for adding to your thread?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 16, 2004 05:51:46 AM new
So you must be voting for the MI admendment... smartest thing you have said on these boards... because if it won't affect you then you have no reason not to support your fellow statesmen...
You know it is the right thing to do... so yes I will thank you for voting yes on the admendment...
posted on October 16, 2004 06:20:17 AM new
Put the crack pipe away. You have to be kidding me. I think people should have civil rights and I vote for them, wether they affect me or not.
Here is some more thoughts on why people "bash" religion.
Fundamentalist preachers degrade their pulpits with inflammatory language about gays and lesbians. Fundamentalist preachers who use radio and television, including the Rev. D. James Kennedy, Pat Robertson, and James Dobson even produce 'special' shows on homosexuality that lead indirectly to violence and to depression, self hatred, and suicide for sensitive young gay and lesbian human beings. They are the victims of this avalanche of hatred from 'Christian' pulpits and 'Christian' television.
They use the bible like it has been used in the past to support slavery from the pulpits and to discriminate against women. They aim isolated passages now at gays, even as Martin Luther and Hitler used the bible against Jews. To be an 'accomplice' or 'accessories after the fact' in a murder is a crime as I understand it.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 16, 2004 07:07:47 AM new
... Then DON'T go to a fundamentalist church led by a celebrity preacher. Some of those people are nuts. Go to a real, local church run by people who live near you.
You won't find politics, hate, or bigotry there. You'll find friendly local people who are gathered together in a common cause.
Twelvepole does have a point about Christians being happier than atheists. My parents used to take me to a Pentecostal church. Then I became an atheist (you know how college students are!), then later kind of got into Buddhism. About a year ago I started going to a local Methodist church and have never been happier.
I've been there, and I'm happier now.
Yeager: Martin Luther used the Bible against Jews? Specifically how & where? I want to look it up.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on October 16, 2004 09:34:51 AM new
Replay, Martin Luther wrote viciously anti-Jewish diatribes. Some examples copied from his Letter to George Spalatin, ca. 1514
Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments.
Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer self-glory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them.
Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as arch-thieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security.
However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God's wrath.
If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies-- that is, longer than two thousand years.
Christ and his word can hardly be recognized because of the great vermin of human ordinances. However, let this suffice for the time being on their lies against doctrine or faith.
Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts?
Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie.
No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants.
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on October 16, 2004 09:46:49 AM new
Um, Linda, I was quoting Martin Luther, the generally accepted founder of protestantism,not Martin Luther King. I would've thought the date might have been a clue.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on October 16, 2004 09:49:32 AM new
Linda, MLK? Heh Heh. Don't think so.
That's pretty interesting profe. I'll have to look up the rest of that.
I don't see the letter he was responding to here, so I don't have all the information, but it sure sounds rough. I would assume that since Luther was trying to distance himself from the Catholic Church, he was also trying to make clear how far he was NOT willing to go. If it comes right down to it, Lutherans are a lot closer to the Catholic church than Judaism and that may have been the point he was trying to make.
But it's not the point of this thread, so I'm not going to pursue this further.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on October 16, 2004 10:16:02 AM new
Twelve in case you missed this tid bit about Cheney's daughter:
Mary Cheney and her partner were an established couple and owned a house together in Colorado when her father was picked as Bush’s running mate in 2000. Mary Cheney, who had run a gay and lesbian outreach program for Coors Brewing Co., wears a gold band on her left hand.
The pair sat side by side in the vice president’s box during his acceptance speech at the Republican National Convention, though neither joined the family onstage afterward, and neither was in sight for the convention finale the next night.
Established couple...gold band on the her left hand....hmmmm....wonder what that could mean.....
Outreach program....hmmmm...yes they are trying to convert people to the lesbian lifestyle.
No choice for you now twinkle toes, you are going to have to vote for Nader. Cheney is one step away from being President......and bringing the gay agenda to the White House....
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
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Let's have a BBQ, Texas style, ROAST BUSH
------------------------------
On This Week with George Stephanopoulos, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld declares: "the area… that coalition forces control… happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They’re in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
------------------------------
posted on October 16, 2004 12:27:56 PM new
Gilda Radner's character Emily Litella, from the older Saturday Night Live show, back when it was funny, as somebody else said. She always got stuff wrong and then said "Never Mind", with a goofy smile when she realized her goof...
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on October 16, 2004 12:30:06 PM new
Twelvepole, sorry looks like a couple posters here have forgot more about religion than you know. So then you get out classed and what do you do, you start making these DUMB A$$ statements.
Twelve said, "You're a religious bigot... what is there to discuss, you won't read the Bible, or attend church, all you do is ridicule"
Twelve said, Not angry, just making my point that people that have been posting here seem to be miserable because those of religon are not"
Please everyone just read the full statements twelve makes. Then make up your own mind who's the DUMB A$$ BIGOT.
Is this DUMB A$$ BIGOT an example of the religious base Geo.Bush is playing to? If so its time to change Presidents.
posted on October 16, 2004 01:11:00 PM new
Didn't Gilda used to say
"DUH, I'm stupid, not very well educated, and don't know the difference between Martin Luther and Martin Luther King,Jr."
Prevent Bigotry through Education.