posted on October 16, 2004 05:05:36 PM new
I didn't read every post here so maybe what I am about to say has already been said.
DIDN'T BUSH FLIP FLOP AGAIN by making a law so Americans can't buy cheaper drugs from Canada. Didn't he say (AS ALWAYS) he was protecting the American people from bad drugs out of Canada. Then in the 3rd debate when asked about flu shots didn't Bush say he was trying to get some from Canada.
ITS TIME TO VOTE THIS A$$ OUT FOR A BETTER AMERICA.
posted on October 16, 2004 05:13:10 PM new
I forgot to add this. Today at a restaurant I talked to an 80 year old World War 2 Vet. He called the local VA Hospital in Pittsburgh and was told there was no Flu shots available. If Bush was doing his job for the Vets he would make sure there was enough shots for them.
posted on October 16, 2004 05:53:43 PM new
My mother has not as of yet been able to get a flu shot. She is a veteran, a diabetic and she suffers from COPD (a chronic respiratory ailment). This is personal to me.
Even so, this isn't George dumbya's fault. (did you catch that I don't care for our current President?) There's a lot of things we can legitimately blame him for, I don't think the flu vaccine shortage is one of them.
Ah, show me a place where dreams are for dreamers
And all the things you wish come true, yeah
I'd wish the world had all happy people
Then there'd be no more wishing to do
The Bush administration is responsible. They failed to take measures to insure available vaccine in case of a failure such as the one that happened in England. It's not good business to expect one company to deliver 50% of the total shots needed. Bush has avoided being blamed for anything personally and in this case he may have been truly ignorant but that doesn't absolve the Bush administration from the responsibility. I would blame the Democratic administration if they had made such a blunder under the same circumstances.
Bush accepts responsibility for nothing...absolutely nothing. When I asked earlier exactly what he is responsible for as President of the United States, the right wingers had no answer. If he takes the country to war and finds no weapons of mass destruction it's the CIA's fault. If there is U.S. torture of prisoners of war it's the MP's fault. If he spends the surplus and wrecks the economy it's Clinton's fault. You could go throughout the history of the last four years and guess what? According to the right-wingers, nothing was Bush's fault.
Kraft, residents of B.C. have to pay for their flu shots ........ not sure but I think the shots are about $15 CAN. Those over 65 and those with a chronic illness get them for free.
People coming into Vancouver from the US on the RX express for their prescriptions have been getting their flu shots while they are there.
posted on October 16, 2004 07:52:35 PM new
There is a very thorough story of the flu shortage, history and possible solutions here. I can copy and paste the article here if anyone doesn't doesn't subscribe to the New York Times.
The problem started in June 2003, just as Chiron was buying the factory, and the F.D.A. knew about it. An inspection found quality control problems similar to what the British government found this year: bacterial contamination in vaccine in the early production stages but not in the final product after sterilization.
F.D.A. officials have said the problems were corrected to their satisfaction, and they let the plant continue to operate. But one question likely to be raised by Congressional investigators is why the British found problems so soon after the agency had deemed them resolved.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/17/health/17flu2.html
posted on October 16, 2004 07:53:55 PM new
This was on Smartmoney.com FOUR days ago.
---
Chiron Corp. (CHIR) said it has received a grand jury subpoena requesting information about Fluvirin and the suspension of its license to manufacture the flu-virus vaccine in the United Kingdom.
The suspension, and subsequent shutdown of a Chiron plant last week in England, has slashed supplies across the U.S.
helen....just in case you missed it THE SUSPENSION, AND SUBSEQUENT SHUTDOWN OF A CHIRON PLANT LAST WEEK IN ENGLAND, HAS SLASHED SUPPLIES ACROSS THE U.S. See.....nothing under the control of President Bush...no matter how hard you try to blame it on him.
"In a filing with the Securities and Exchange Commission on Tuesday, Chiron said it received the subpoena Monday from the U.S. attorney's office for the Southern District of New York. Chiron said it intends to cooperate fully with the U.S. attorney's office in its investigation.
The federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention was notified by Chiron a week ago that no Fluvirin would be available for the U.S. for the 2004-2005 flu season. As a result, CDC has urged private clinics and physicians to inoculate only high-risk groups.
Chiron told the CDC that the Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency in the U.K. had suspended Chiron's license to manufacture the vaccine in the Liverpool facility for three months. The CDC said that will reduce by about half the expected supply of flu shots available in the U.S. for the current flu season.
The only other supply of vaccine expected to be available in the U.S. is about 54 million doses of Fluzone manufactured by Aventis Pasteur Inc., a unit of Sanofi-Aventis SA, the CDC said.
[NOTE AGAIN HELEN.....only TWO companies produce this flu shot.]
Scientists with the U.S. Food and Drug Administration traveled to England late last week to meet with U.K. regulators and Chiron officials and to visit the plant at Liverpool.
posted on October 16, 2004 07:58:50 PM new
Peep - you didn't say anything that anyone else already said but then what you did say shows that you do not actually understand what it is that Bush did.
He did not make a law that forbids purchasing purchasing prescription drugs from Canada. He vetoed a bill that would have repealed a law that makes RE-IMPORTATION of of US manufactured drugs from Canada illegal. The law was created to protect the domestic profits of US Pharmaceutical companies who sell the same products to foreign countries for much less than they are sold here.
Purchasing vaccine from a Canadian manufacturer would not be in violation of the law.
Helen - the difference between you and I in this matter is that I don't believe that the government needs to be my babysitter. Sh*t happens and sometimes it is nobodies fault and you deal with it, your learn the lesson for the future and you move on. What amazes me though, is that with all of the complaints that you have about the government and bureaucracies is that you actually want then to handle your health care system. Now if that is not the definition of masochist, I don't know what is.
Kiara - Am I the only one that found an eerily familiar ring in this statement....
The committee is demanding proof from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration that it had no prior warning that British regulators were going to suspend the license of the Chiron factory in Liverpool
What is it with the US government demanding that epople prove the negative?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on October 16, 2004 08:06:50 PM newThe Bush administration is responsible. They failed to take measures to insure available vaccine in case of a failure such as the one that happened in England.
Maybe you're aware of something we're not....like was a precident already established for this possibility in past administrations?
It's not good business to expect one company to deliver 50% of the total shots needed.
What percentage would have pleased you more, helen, considering there are only TWO companies who produce this shot? Would 75%/25% been a better choice, using 20/20 hindsight now?
This all sounds pretty whiney to me....
Bush has avoided being blamed for anything personally and in this case he may have been truly ignorant but that doesn't absolve the Bush administration from the responsibility.
I would blame the Democratic administration if they had made such a blunder under the same circumstances. roflmho....sure you would.
Bush accepts responsibility for nothing...absolutely nothing. When I asked earlier exactly what he is responsible for as President of the United States, the right wingers had no answer.
Oh there are answers alright....but that would have just taken us off topic....you know like you always try to be hall monitor and prevent.
Here you get REAL whiney
If he takes the country to war and finds no weapons of mass destruction it's the CIA's fault. If there is U.S. torture of prisoners of war it's the MP's fault. If he spends the surplus and wrecks the economy it's Clinton's fault. You could go throughout the history of the last four years and guess what? According to the right-wingers, nothing was Bush's fault.
Same with you, except in the reverse....everything is his fault according to you.
posted on October 16, 2004 08:14:12 PM new
fenix - On the Purchasing vaccine from a Canadian manufacturer would not be in violation of the law.....
from what I've read today using the vaccine from Canada or other countries would either require FDA approval or for the shots to be considered 'experimental' drugs....and thereby releasing the 'risk' to the consumer.
Imo, sounds like if we are able to get supplies from other countries...it's 'do it at your own risk' kind of thing. Probably worried about all the edward supporters filing lawsuits against them if they should get sick from the 'foreign' drugs.
Bush of course knows that Canadian drugs are safe to use and he knows that they are not from third world countries. He is looking out for the welfare of pharmaceutical corporations -- not the poor and average American who cannot afford to pay for prescription drugs.
Bush's position on Canadian flu shots vs. prescription drugs called 'ironic'
TORONTO (CP) - When President George W. Bush spoke of importing Canadian flu vaccine during Wednesday's election debate, many in the U.S. public health community were struck by the irony of an administration that slams the door on cheaper Canadian drugs, but looks north for help with an embarrassing vaccine shortage.
"It seemed ironic to many of us who were watching that the president had kind of disparaged the importation of Canadian (prescription) drugs but seemed to be interested in exploring the possibility of importing Canadian vaccine," Dr. William Schaffner, a member of the U.S. advisory committee on immunization practices, said in an interview Thursday.
posted on October 16, 2004 08:45:26 PM new
Bush from the presidential debate when asked about purchasing drugs from Canada.
BUSH:..... Just want to make sure they‘re safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn‘t kill you.
And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it‘s from Canada, and it might be from a third world.
posted on October 16, 2004 08:57:55 PM new"Helen - the difference between you and I in this matter is that I don't believe that the government needs to be my babysitter. Sh*t happens and sometimes it is nobodies fault and you deal with it, your learn the lesson for the future and you move on. What amazes me though, is that with all of the complaints that you have about the government and bureaucracies is that you actually want then to handle your health care system. Now if that is not the definition of masochist, I don't know what is"
What are all the "government and bureaucracies that I complain about", fenix? If I complain about a service it doesn't follow that I want to abolish it. If I complain about the lack of sufficient flu shots I don't want to abandon the flu vaccination program and opt out of a health care system. Dam, fenix the longer you talk, the crazier you sound. Make youself useful and go hold linda's hand or something.
posted on October 16, 2004 09:12:58 PM new
Exactly Helen. Don't forget that these big drug companies are major Republican party contributors. It's Bush's job to make sure they aren't compromised in any way.
P.S. Did you hear about the thousands of Canadians dying each day from faulty Canadian made meds? Me neither.
posted on October 16, 2004 09:15:59 PM new
cherishedclutter,
World War-2 and Korean War Vets are at the risk age. I can certainly understand you worries about your Mother. If this horses A$$ President and his Gang had any sense or knew anything about running a government this would not have happened. Only a dumb A$$ would relay on only 2 companies to supply the entire U.S. with flu shots.
I am 100% sure that Cheney will get a flu shot. But your Mother and the old World War-2 Vet I met. Well I sure hope they find one someplace.
IF THE LORD TAKES CARE OF DRUNKS AND FOOLS. GEORGE BUSH HAS FULL COVERAGE.
posted on October 16, 2004 09:16:37 PM new
Right, KD...this discussion is unbelievable.
To add to my previous comment,
You say, "Helen - the difference between you and I in this matter is that I don't believe that the government needs to be my babysitter"
We are talking about all Americans, fenix.
Offering preventative care and helping sick people is not being their "babysitter". Are you actually suggesting that no one should handle our health system? Are you suggesting that we look at the poor people who can't afford health care, including little children that are not responsible for their poverty and just say, tough s h i t! We don't babysit in this country??? I've got news for you. Vaccinations against disease is a part of our health care system.
And let's keep these thoughts of yours in mind from the previous page.
fenix said, "I believe that gasoline should never cost more that $1.50 a gallon and that the $3 in taxes I pay on every pack of cigaerettes that I purchase should allow me to smoke where ever I damn well please.... but that's not really how things work in the reality of our world. Kinda like how in the current reality of our nation there absolutely nothing that states that the government is responsible for your flu shot.
..........................
fenix said,"The fact is that there is absolutely no current regulation which requires the government to provide a national innoculation program."
posted on October 16, 2004 09:43:51 PM new
:: Dam, fenix the longer you talk, the crazier you sound. Make youself useful and go hold linda's hand or something. ::
But wait... aren't YOU the one that stated that they didn't want to get into petty personal attacks?
What is it Helen - you failed to get me to fall into lockstep and so need to go into attack mode? Have a blast sweetie I have better things to do with my time than to get pulled down this drain. Topical conversation is one thing but I see that we have now progress to the Helen acts superior and starts name calling name phase so I believe I'll bow out. Been there done that. Don't worry hon, I'm sure someone will step in soon to join you in lamenting at how horrible it is that I don't think exactly the same as you.
Have a blast! Back to work for me,
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 16, 2004 09:44 PM ]
[ edited by fenix03 on Oct 16, 2004 09:45 PM ]
posted on October 16, 2004 11:21:55 PM new
I do blame Bush for this situation. And as Helen said, either party would be to blame should it happen. I also believe that Cheney and the Bush clan will get their shots and they won't have to stand in lines for 2-3 hours either. They won't have to show a qualification either like the current people seeking are.
I have a kidney transplant and I will be very lucky if I get one before the main flu season gets started. Of course, I was on dialysis for 4 years and 11 months before I got the transplant and it costs the US government 35,000 a year to keep me on dialysis. The transplant operation cost Medicare 86,000 dollars. In total, thats $296,000.00. I called my doctors office and was told that there is no supply in this area. I would have to drive about 60 miles to get a shot and stand in line for the same as an elderly person, after being interviewed to see if I qualify.
As far as the government being responsible, YES THEY ARE. Bush didn't waste any time going to Florida to stump for votes 2 days after the hurricanes cleared. Only in the guise of showing compassion for the people who's lives were destroyed by the weather. The government also operates a organization called the CDC, the center for disease control. The Bush gang should have been on top of this situation before it became a national concern.
Another failure of the Bush government.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on October 17, 2004 06:14:39 AM new
So yes it was President Bush's fault that the company contracted to get the vaccine from was not clean enough...NOT
But it was President Bushs fault for the cabinet choice in charge of that position, which he has said that he made a mistake in his appointments...
Damn here is our chance to invade Canada and take their's... some allies... just proves what suckass canadians actually are...
Actually how many people would be getting a flu shot if they hadn't heard of this shortage?
Not nearly as many that are now complaining...
Of course if you were a verteran and had actually served, you can go to the VA clinic and get one...
posted on October 17, 2004 06:54:49 AM new
Why should Canada have to give up their vaccine? Their government is looking after the population there. Too bad ours isn't.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
Cheryl - I give the British people a little more credit than that.
Well, let's see. Bush practically blamed it on the UK on national television. A great number of Brits were watching him on television and friends I have in London have expressed their distaste at the comments. Yes, I give the British a little more credit - they at least have a clue as to who Bush really is. They know a turncoat when they see one. It was the UK that stopped the vaccine from being imported to the US NOT the Bush administration. Give credit where credit is due.
BUSH: Bob, we relied upon a company out of England to provide about half of the flu vaccines for the United States citizen, and it turned out that the vaccine they were producing was contaminated.
By not stating that it was the UK who rightfully kept the vaccine from the U.S., he was again able to dance around the facts.
Cheryl
. . .if you still try to defend the infamies and horrors perpetrated by that Antichrist- I really believe he is Antichrist- I will have nothing more to do with you and you are no longer my friend.. . - War and Peace, Tolstoy
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Oct 17, 2004 07:00 AM ]
posted on October 17, 2004 07:58:25 AM new
Cheryl,
You are very lucky to be in touch with people in London. From just reading the newspaper I've gotten the same impression.
The FDA knew about this problem in 2003 when Chiron bought the factory. It's not a problem that happened so suddenly as the Bush administration would lead us to believe. The deception in this administration is abomnible.
Some thoughts in this thread seem to reflect an anarchist or Libertarian view towards health care. It's the first time that I've encountered anyone here with that political philosophy.
posted on October 17, 2004 09:08:55 AM new
Remember Canada has National Health Care and the government IS responsible for them.
Since we don't have it our government is not responsible but takes a responsibility that drugs sent into the US are safe and this wasn't safe. Explain how the government knew that this was contaminated? They are here to protect you not run your life.
Great Yeager it is nice to know that our US dollars have spent that kind of money on you as it does on any person that has transplants. One reason for the high cost of health care. Your physician is responsible for your flu shot not the US government.
I find it no different that an young healthy person waiting in line than a healthy senior. We can't discriminate.
ID Biomedical of Vancouver contacted the U.S. Food and Drug Administration recently to offer as many as 1.5 million doses it has available, said Michelle Roy, a company spokeswoman.
"We would be happy to help if asked by them," Ms. Roy said yesterday. "We are in communication with them, but there's no negotiation or decision yet. We are the ones who initiated the discussion."
The surplus is on top of the doses already promised and delivered to the provinces, she said, so domestic supply will not be endangered. The ID Biomedical vaccine has yet to be licensed in the U.S., so it cannot be shipped there until the FDA approves it, said Ms. Roy.
The long lead time needed to produce the egg-based vaccine makes it impossible to bump up production for this year at the last minute, she said.
Lenore Gelb, a spokeswoman for the FDA, said it is "premature" to talk about any importation of flu vaccine from Canada. She said the FDA and the Centers for Disease Control have been asked to look for alternative sources of the material.
Ms. Roy said her company had already begun work on expanding its plant so it could serve the American market, with plans to produce 50 million doses a year by the 2007-2008 season. But it could ramp up that process and offer as many as 12 million doses next year if needed, she said.
posted on October 17, 2004 10:18:20 AM new
Septembermom says..."Since we don't have it our government is not responsible but takes a responsibility that drugs sent into the US are safe and this wasn't safe. Explain how the government knew that this was contaminated? They are here to protect you not run your life."
Septembermom, The company that manufactured the contaminated vaccine, Chiron bought a factory in England in 2003 where it planned to make the vaccine for the U.S. The FDA inspected that plant and found some problems in 2003 The question that will probably be investigated is how closely that new factory which produced the contaminated vaccine, was investigated by the FDA. Another question that will be investigated or considered is why 50% of the flu vaccine was contracted to this single company. When a company making such a large percentage of the drug fails, it makes an impact that is difficult or impossible to handle at this late date. To answer your question..."How the government knew that this was contaminated....Our government did Not know that this vaccine was contaminated until we were told by the British. That's scary since it's our government's responsibility to know especially since this problem began in 2003.
Providing flu vaccination is a facet of health care that is available in countries throughout the world. Do you believe that we do not deserve this protection? I really don't understand how you can consider having flu vaccine available as "running your life".
Then you say,"I find it no different that an young healthy person waiting in line than a healthy senior. We can't discriminate."
There is no discrimination as far as waiting in line. Where did you get that idea?
THE SUSPENSION, AND SUBSEQUENT SHUTDOWN OF A CHIRON PLANT LAST WEEK IN ENGLAND, HAS SLASHED SUPPLIES ACROSS THE U.S. See.....nothing under the control of President Bush...no matter how hard you try to blame it on him. 
Prevent Bigotry through Education.