kiara
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posted on November 5, 2004 08:17:32 PM new
Linda_k has judged Canada's total health care system wrongly and nothing will ever change her mind.
Canada realizes there are problems within an excellent system and they are working on them and already privatizing surgeries in B.C. and trying to move more towards some European health systems they recently studied that use a successful combination of public and private services. These things don't happen overnight or in one or two months and media attention does make things move faster at times.
No country is perfect and everyone should work together to try to make things better for all their citizens instead of only thinking about themselves.
Check out Nationmaster.com and see the amount of taxes paid per person in the US and Canada. Check out the health costs paid per person. Check out the life expectancy.
http://www.nationmaster.com/cat/Health
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kraftdinner
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posted on November 5, 2004 08:18:43 PM new
Helen and Kiara are very well informed about the Canadian health care system so there's no need to poo-poo their posts, Linda. You and I have talked about this before and we have the same problems we discussed - lack of surgeons and anesthesiologists, plus a system that has no user pay for the people that go to their doctor's for hangnails. These issues can be addressed if we can somehow convince doctor's to stay in Canada, plus educate people to understand illnesses and what warrants a professional opinion. Until then we will continue to have these problems with such a system.
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Helenjw
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posted on November 5, 2004 08:31:08 PM new
Linda, I believe that KD and Kiara know more about the Canadian health care system than you or I do since they live in Canada and have used the system. I understand that it may not be a perfect system but certainly better for everyone than our system where only some people can access the system.
It's nothing for you to worry your little head about now though. For the next four years, Bush will be coddling the insurance and pharmaceutical companies while he ignores the people who voted for him.
I'm finished with this topic.
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Twelvepole
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posted on November 6, 2004 04:59:54 AM new
I wish more liberals from here would move to Canada and enjoy all the great things kraft and kiara enjoy... go on people get a start head for that land of opportunity called Canada...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND... 
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
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Twelvepole
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posted on November 6, 2004 05:05:24 AM new
Original? You have never posted anything original here, that is your denial coming out... next comes anger... then grief... then acceptance...
When you finally accept what a hate filled old person you are you will be more happy with yourself...
But hey here is something familiar... you never answered the questions... why is that? afraid for others to see the answers...
I see you can call someone a liar, but refuse to admit you are one... now that is amusing...
Want to see hate crowfarm... look in the mirror...seems that is what is lacking most in liberal homes are mirrors...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
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Libra63
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posted on November 6, 2004 05:33:30 AM new
Helen I beg to differ with you. There is free health care, at least is Wisconsin there is. It is called "Badger Care". I am not the product of the free health care but the low income people are. About 1 mile down the road from me there is a free medical and dental clinic for the low income families. Some Physicians donate their time to help these people. Local physicians donate money to this clinic to pay employees.
It is the best health care anyone would want but only available to low income families. Other families or single people can buy into it and it is based on their income. I think my sister who lives in Minnesota said they have a similar plan called "Minnesota Care". I understand Hawaii also has an excellent health care system for their citizens. Medical Care is out there for everyone. You just have to have initiative to go find it as it won't come to you.
Nobody is turned away at an Emergency Room from a Catholic Hospital. But like other services it is over worked.
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stopwhining
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posted on November 6, 2004 06:11:00 AM new
I think Nancy Reagon said it right-DONT GET SICK!!
Getting sick is expensive business.
Girls who are on birth control pills at age 11-13 are asking for troubles .
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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Helenjw
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posted on November 6, 2004 06:51:47 AM new
Libra, services such as you mention cannot be found in every neighborhood. In this country, we should not have to rely on charity to provide health care for our citizens. Every individual should have good quality health care from birth throughout their lives. Instead, we give our welfare to Insurance and Pharmaceutical industries who are responsible for increasing medical costs. Poor people are eligible for medicaid but for the working poor...in other words, those who do not qualify for medicaid and other services such as you mention, there is nothing. A major illness is simply unaffordable.
I can't understand the greed and lack of compassion that leads people to oppose such a system. It DOES work in countries throughout the world and in Canada as we have mentioned. We need a system that will put doctors and patients in control of the system rather than insurance companies.
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Linda_K
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posted on November 6, 2004 07:22:25 AM new
Libra - Our town has something similar to what you've mentioned...but it's totally free and no one has to do any paper work to prove they're poor. Just show up and you will be cared for. They hold the clinic once a week and all our docs rotate on seeing the patients. Should they need additional care, care that can't be given in the clinic, they are then given the doc's referal to our town's Health and Human Resource Dept...where they can find out what help is available to them through the state and any Federal programs.
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Well, kiara, it's not JUST linda who see's it that way. It's millions of Canadians and your own doctors.
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KD - You're correct....no system is perfect. But if you, helen and kiara ever get breast cancer and since you would have to wait months to get your radiation treatment to be sure the cancer is all gone, and you three don't mind waiting for months to get it....that's your choice. I choose immediate follow up care.
Plus I have mentioned before that even when a woman might choose to pay for better care, it's against your laws to do so.
I NEVER want to be in a position where my government tells me I can't pay for and access better health care when I find out I have cancer, like your systems demands. Thank you anyway....I like have CHOICE not socialism.
And then there's helen....our own US socialist.
services such as you mention cannot be found in every neighborhood.
NOR are they found in Canada. One of their biggest problems is for those in THEIR rural areas to get treatment too. It's not just a problem here...and their system is no better on your point. See my link.
In this country, we should not have to rely on charity to provide health care for our citizens. Every individual should have good quality health care from birth throughout their lives.
Yep, socialist thinking. The government takes care of you from birth through death. NO WAY.... And I agree people wouldn't have to depend on charity if they take personal responsibility and either chose a job WITH medical benefits....or pay for them themself rather than having all the latest electronic
gadgets and not paying for protecting themselves and their families. It's THEIR responsibility....not the government [other taxpayers]. And everyone who is needy does get health care...no one goes without. It's that they don't get FREE health insurance.
Choices....life is full of choices....make the right ones.
I can't understand the greed and lack of compassion that leads people to oppose such a system.
Yes, helen...while you and your friends are out sailing the ocean blue on your boat....why should you be responsible for bothering to pay for your own medical care. Let the government do it [read taxpayers]...while you enjoy many days out in that wonderful ocean air.
It has nothing to do with greed nor lack of compassion. It has to do with taking personal responsibility for oneself and making different choices. The compassion for the truly poor is there and many spend the better part of their lives helping the poor and disadvantaged. They just don't think it's owed as a birth right to anyone.
It DOES work in countries throughout the world and in Canada as we have mentioned.
Not too well in Canada...more and more are complaining about how their government is NOT doing a good job with their lives in their politicans hands.
We need a system that will put doctors and patients in control of the system rather than insurance companies.
And you think Canada does this? You're crazy if you do. Their government even makes the decisions on how many doctors, and nurses are allowed to train to become doctors. So according to YOU, you'd rather have our government/politicans deciding how many doctors the US even needs and how many they'll pay to train huh? NOT ME.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=canadian+health+care+system+failing+women+2004
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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Helenjw
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posted on November 6, 2004 07:42:16 AM new
Don't worry linda. Maybe you'll find your head, next time.
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crowfarm
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posted on November 6, 2004 07:44:46 AM new
Thank you Helen!
Like foreign newspapers ask, " How can so many people be so DUMB?"
Well, you read the posts of linduh, bear, twelve, pricklame.......now ya know!
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maggiemuggins
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posted on November 6, 2004 07:55:27 AM new
BRAVO! HELEN! That picture says it all, doesn't it!
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Libra63
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posted on November 6, 2004 07:59:52 AM new
I don't feel that giving healcare to the low and middle class is charity. If you think it is than Medicaid fits right in there with it.
Badger Care is the same as Medicaid but only given through the state of Wisconsin. Wisconsin is the state that pays for their bill and only Wisconsin. It does not come from the federal government. It comes from the working class taxes. Every individual that requires good care gets it in Wisconsin, that is if they want it.
Their major illness is affordable in Wisconsin. There are many Hospitals in the US and Wisconsin that write off bills for people that can't afford them. Many Catholic hospitals do charity work. Private Hospitals NO.
The yellow cards (title 19) that the low income people carry get them into emergency rooms for free.
What you don't understand is that National Health care is run by the government and do you want to be controled by the government. Do we want to become a government run country or do you want to be free to roam around. Many physicians will quit and the reason, why should they spend all their money for education which sometimes takes them 15 - 20 years before they practice medicine. Why waste time when they are not going to get paid for their knowledge.
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kiara
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posted on November 6, 2004 08:02:52 AM new
But if you, helen and kiara ever get breast cancer and since you would have to wait months to get your radiation treatment to be sure the cancer is all gone, and you three don't mind waiting for months to get it....that's your choice. I choose immediate follow up care.
Linda_k, I realize that this is a prime opportunity for you to slaver and google and bash Canada but you know nothing from personal experience and you even recently admitted anyone you ever knew from there was "knew" and doesn't pertain to these times.
I happen to know several breast cancer survivors and they had immediate treatment. They all belong to groups and give support to others who encounter breast cancer. No one is waiting and there have been no horror stories about their treatments.
I also know other cancer patients from children to older adults and they all get radiation treatment immediately. I'm not saying that in some areas waiting periods don't happen but when you take in the total population it's not like everyone waits as you are telling it.
What part of my posts where I say that Canada recognizes that they have problems and are trying to work on them don't you understand? Presently there is a shortage of doctors and nurses.
Now go google yourself a map of Canada that shows the population. Take a long hard look at the size of the country. Now come back here and talk about rural areas. Do you realize how unrealistic it would be to put top-notch facilities in each of those. Get real. 
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maggiemuggins
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posted on November 6, 2004 08:06:36 AM new
Yeah... I can't wait to hear you squeal old lady, when Bush tells you that your Social Security is Welfare and cuts it...LOL.. he will be smiling when he says too bad..so sad... HA! Maggie
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Helenjw
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posted on November 6, 2004 08:16:53 AM new
Libra,
Take the TV to the dump, unplug the batteries from your radio, tell your IP bye bye and just squat in your garden and smell your pretty roses along with linda. No need to bother your little heads with what is happening in the world because you don't care as long as it's not on your "soil". Right?
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Linda_K
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posted on November 6, 2004 08:27:01 AM new
Well...let me put it this way...the 10,000 +
women who had breast cancer and are suing your government because they DIDN'T get proper, quick care....add to my continuing position that your government is deciding to spend your tax dollars elsewhere...until Martin's new promise. But that only came because of political pressure from the people.
I don't want to vote to put myself in the position so I have to fight with my government over my tax dollars being spent to give me better health care. period....
And I'm not going to continue to post about this subject....because at least it's not going to happen in the next four years....thank heaven.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
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crowfarm
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posted on November 6, 2004 08:32:00 AM new
Yet, at the same time when a woman has her perfectly healthy breasts cut off through doctor error the neonazicons think she should just forget about it and not sue the doctor over something so "frivolous".
Problems in every country....but unlike the "leader" of our contry they try to make it better. They don't ignore it because it doesn't affect them.
I shall know more about Canada but for now what I do know is that when you do lose your job you get health care and don't have to decide between food and health care payments.....losing your home or health care payments.....losing your life or health care payments.
[ edited by crowfarm on Nov 6, 2004 08:35 AM ]
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kiara
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posted on November 6, 2004 08:36:56 AM new
Linda_k, the problem with the 10,000 people that you managed to google happened in Quebec. Each province manages their own health care so it can't blame the rest of Canada.
Martin was elected just a couple of months ago and they said they'd work on the health problems. There are no miracle cures for something this large in just a couple of months. Duh.
If the US ever wishes to revamp their system I think they should look more towards how some operate in Europe and use those countries as an example.
Thanks for saying that you will no longer post on a topic that you are ignorant about. I think it's a wise idea unless the person is posting so as to learn more.
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kraftdinner
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posted on November 6, 2004 09:19:41 AM new
Linda, cancer has affected my family and I've spent many moons at the cancer center. There's no wait. Also, there are different types of cancers - some fast spreading, some slow. In some cases, chemo might not be given for months. Not because there's a waiting list but because immediate attention makes no difference. It also depends on what stage of cancer a person is in when diagnosed.
Here's something to think about. The average cost of chemo is $2000.00 per dose. Some need it every day. Some twice a week. Could you afford to get cancer?
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Libra63
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posted on November 6, 2004 02:35:45 PM new
Libra,
Take the TV to the dump, unplug the batteries from your radio, tell your IP bye bye and just squat in your garden and smell your pretty roses along with linda. No need to bother your little heads with what is happening in the world because you don't care as long as it's not on your "soil". Right
Helen I though you said you were going. It's on my soil and I am trying to explain and get through your thick skull that there is free medical help to people that need it.
Well to answer you question and if you read this thread I am in favor of giving medical care to the patient that needs it but not a national healh care plan. What you said to me is uncalled for. I don't want the government telling me where and who I have to see for my health care. Rest assured if we get a national health care my family physician will leave practice. I wouldn't have worked in the health care field for 45 years if I didn't believe that I didn't helped the patient. I worked in health care when wages were below everyone elses. Please open you eyes and read this. There is free medical care for the poor, at least in our state there is. I worked many an emergency room where welfare patients came in and received the same care as a paying patient. The welfare patient received no bill. Can you comprehend this?
Now who made you QUEEN of this board. To tell us who can post here. There can't be 4 of you so maybe you better have an election to see who is.
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kraftdinner
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posted on November 6, 2004 02:52:55 PM new
Libra, Helen was voted in Queen of Vendio about a month ago. I can't believe you forgot.
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Libra63
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posted on November 6, 2004 03:06:00 PM new
Well Kraft it is hard to remember what happens in here as there are so many jockeying for the job.
I don't remember a vote for her but certainly after that post she would get my vote. Another plus for Helen she doesn't use the language as the two that are running for President and Vice President do. They will NOT get my vote. Class wins votes....
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maggiemuggins
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posted on November 6, 2004 03:50:43 PM new
I nominate Libra for the position of the President's Pay agent.. she has proved that she is an extremely clear thinking old gal and knows how to pinch a penny...just look at those beautiful earrings that she recycled!
Vote for Libra...
[ edited by maggiemuggins on Nov 6, 2004 03:51 PM ]
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Helenjw
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posted on November 6, 2004 09:02:08 PM new
Libra,
I was not basing my example on Welfare or Medicaid qualified people but rather people who earn too much to qualify for Medicaid and too little to buy private coverage. Lot's of people fall into this category among which 43 million in the United States are uninsured. I think that the government should act in the best interest of it's citizens and focus some attention on this problem. Unfortunately, Bush will do nothing during the next four years.
Helen
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stopwhining
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posted on November 7, 2004 09:07:18 AM new
is that why Kerry suggested lowering the age for MEDICARE to 55??
We have walkup clinic which charges 50 for an office visit,some places i heard is 35.
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
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Libra63
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posted on November 7, 2004 09:25:33 AM new
Helen - You and I and many other posters just speculate what will happen, as we would have had to under Kerry. We can never predict what services will be given during this 4 year term. Remember Services can be promised but there is a congress and not all the Republican congressmen/women follow the views of the President. We know that the democrats will not vote for his proposals. So it is a wait and see game.
I have never paid a copay for Medicare so I wouldn't know. All I know is when I receive my insurance statements it says on the back of the statement if I am responsible or not responsible for the remaining balance. I just noticed something else on the back of my statement. It says. We pay the medicare co-payment for outpatient services. So I guess that is why I don't pay them.
Medicare and my insurance doesn't cover everything and I do end up paying some office visits. $97.00
[ edited by Libra63 on Nov 7, 2004 09:26 AM ]
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