posted on November 15, 2004 02:55:08 PM new
On Sunday, November 14, 8 p.m. ET, CNN aired the show CNN Presents. For those who don't know it's a news magazine similar to 60 minutes. This week's show was titled The Fight Over Faith. Here is a small sample of what the show dealt with.
It is the fastest-growing form of Christianity in America. Some surveys say nearly 40 percent of Christians in the United States describe themselves as "evangelical" or "born again." What does it mean to be an evangelical in America 2004 and why is this brand of Christianity spreading so rapidly right now?
In this program, they showed the new spread of modern christianity and the potential outcome of it. The show featured many southern christian churchs and congregations and what their goals were for society in general. They also showed how these people thought that government and the church should have a more joint relationship. The show even showed footage of the local car wash, where the price of the wash flashed on the marquee board, then a bible verse.
In one segment of the show, they featured a typical southern christian family. The employed father, the homemaker mother, the teenage son, and the young daughter. The son was 15 and the daughter was about 8 or 9. The story behind that family was they did everything according to their interpretation of the bible. Believe it or not, including when the father should be allowed to drive the car. The son was allowed to watch the R rated Passion, but not other R rated movies. One of the most bizarre things in the family was when the news journalist asked the daughter about her faith. She responded "that she was saved when she was three years old". Then when asked how she knew that, she told the journalist that she "knew it her heart". She also said that she "killed jesus" with her sins.
The final interview was with the mother. She was asked about her belief in the second coming of the lord. She indicated that she hopes that it would be soon because the world is a horrible place. She said, if the lord would come this instant, that would be fine with her.
Now........
Are these people lunatics or what. The husband can't drive the car if the trip isn't according to the bible. And the daughter who absolutely KNEW she was saved at the age of three. Most three year olds can't go to the bathroom without adult supervision, but in this family, the 3 year has the complicated understanding of death and a concept of heaven. These parents need their heads examined.
For those who find this hard to believe, or those who would like to see this program, CNN will air it again. Here is the schedule.
CNN USA air times | All times ET
Saturday, November 20
The Fight Over Faith 6 a.m., 8 p.m., 11 p.m.
posted on November 15, 2004 05:55:34 PM new
This is just another case of hatred on yeager's part and complete intolerance for what he doesn't like - the actions of religious people who are following THEIR OWN beliefs. He's SAYS "[i]Secondly, I am not anti-religious. I am anti forced religion." Yea, right....sure..- your posts show a very different picture of your feelings/opinions.
And yet, NOT ONE of these people is forcing their religion upon you....they're just practicing their beliefs and you complain endlessly about what people of faith do...mocking them all the time - implying or outright calling them nuts.
I believe you need to question yourself, yeager, on how you can preach to us all the time that gays getting married doesn't change anyones life one bit....but then turn right around and continue thread after thread bashing how religious people choose to life their own lives....which doesn't affect you in any way either.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 15, 2004 06:11:07 PM new
Here's one for some of you:
> Subject: And Then They Voted
>
>
> >Don't worry about the election folks, we're in the hands of the voting
> >public.
> >
> >Comforting to live in an age of "one idiot, one vote".
> >
> >While looking at a house, my brother asked the real estate agent which
> >direction was north because, he explained, he didn't want the sun waking
> >him up every morning. She asked, "Does the sun rise in the north?" When
> >another person jumped in and explained that the sun rises in the east
> >(and has for some time), she shook her head and said, "Oh, I don't keep
> >up with that stuff."
> >
> >And then she voted.
> >
> >I used to work in technical support for a 24x7 call center. One day I
> >got a call from an Individual who asked what hours the call center was
> >open. I told him, "The number you dialed is open 24 hours a day, 7 days
> >a week". He responded, "Is that Eastern or Pacific time?" Wanting to end
> >th e call quickly, I said, "Uh.. Pacific."
> >
> >And then he voted.
> >
> >So m y colleague and I were eating our lunch in our cafeteria, when we
> >overheard one of the admin assistants talking about the sunburn she got
> >on her weekend drive to the shore. She drove down in a convertible, but
> >"didn't think she'd get sunburned because the car was moving."
> >
> >And then she voted.
> >
> >My sister has a lifesaving tool in her car. It's designed to cut through
> >a seatbelt if she gets trapped. She keeps it in the passenger side
> >door's map pocket.
> >
> >And then she voted.
> >
> >My friends and I were on a beer run and noticed that the cases were
> >discounted 10%. Since it was a big party, we bought two cases. The
> >cashier multiplied two times 10% and gave us a 20% discount.
> >
> >And then they all voted.
> >
> >I was hanging out with a friend of mine when we saw a woman walk by us
> >with a nose ring attached to an earring by a chain. My friend said,
> >"Wouldn't the chain rip out every time she turned her head?" I had to
> >explain to her that a person's nose and ear remain the same distance
> >apart no matter which way the head is turned.
> >And then she voted.
> >
> >My girlfriend and I were picking up some sandwiches from the sub place
> >last week and she asked the clerk which one of two sandwiches was
> >better. The clerk didn't have an opinion but did say that the first
> >sandwich was more expensive. My girlfriend got a quizzical look on her
> >face and asked, "If that's the case, why are they both listed with the
> >same price on the menu?" To this, the clerk responded, "I don't think
> >they tax the turkey."
> >
> >And then he voted.
> >
> >My wife and I were trying to find a carry-on suitcase in one of those
> >huge discount stores and had become hopelessly lost. We stopped and
> >asked a department manager where we might find suitcases. "Did you try
> >in Luggage?" he asked, and returned to what he was doing.
> >
> >And then he voted.
> >
> >I couldn't find my luggage at the airport baggage area. So I went to the
> >lost luggage office and told the woman there that my bags never showed
> >up. She smiled and told me not to worry because they were trained
> >professionals and I was in good hands. "Now," She asked me, "has your
> >plane arrived yet?"
> >
> >And then she voted
> >--
> >tagline
> >Some minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
>
> _____________________________________________
posted on November 15, 2004 06:29:25 PM newSome minds are like concrete, thoroughly mixed up and permanently set.
Yep, I agree. And with the WH and both Houses now, again, in the control of the right....if the left doesn't come more to the center they *may never* control either the House or the Senate...let alone the WH again.
Even the dem leaders are constantly discussing what changes they need to make in their party so people see them differently than they do now.
It's only....
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 15, 2004 06:31:33 PM new
Yeager, I believe these people honestly feel they'll get special treatment/blessings by God if they act this way - on earth and in heaven. Someone's brainwashed them, they brainwash their kids, and on and on. Maybe the sheep of the world aren't able to process much themselves so they turn elsewhere to find answers.
posted on November 16, 2004 07:39:04 AM new
linda says,
And yet, NOT ONE of these people is forcing their religion upon you....they're just practicing their beliefs and you complain endlessly about what people of faith do...mocking them all the time - implying or outright calling them nuts.
Of course they are forcing their religious beliefs of me and others. Example: They want to end abortion, that includes MALE christians who would never need one. They protest and protest and sometimes bomb abortion clinics. If a woman wanted to have an abortion, how would that have an affect on Mr. and Mrs Smith in church. The fact is that it doesn't. The same goes for the Gay Marriage issue. If two men, or two women want to get married, it had NOTHING to due with what goes on inside any church.
BUT!
The church wants to form a society that it feels would better benefit their ideas of what society should be. Even though a person might not have any belief system towards religion. There are many political action committees that are religion based that are always trying to push their agenda on the country as a whole, regardless of a person is religious or not.
If the people from the religious right don't want an abortion, THEN DON'T GET ONE. If the people of the religious right don't want a Gay Marriage, THEN DON'T GET ONE. There is nobody forcing the bible thumpers to take part in anything they object to.
posted on November 16, 2004 07:47:44 AM new
kraft,
Yes, I also think that some of them are truly brain washed. Programmed thinking at the very least. Imagine a 3 year old that knows she is saved. Many times such a child can't even color inside the lines of a coloring book. But in this case has an concrete idea of what being "saved" is about. I could convince any 3 year old there are little green men living on the moon too. If a person did this for any period of time with an impressionable child, it would be a long time for a therapy would do any good. This child might sometime realize there aren't little green men on the moon, but the thought would still linger in the mind.
Question for linda!
What is being "saved" anyway? Your idea or concept of it please.
posted on November 16, 2004 08:08:44 AM new
linda,
Here are some of the comment from the nutcases.
From the mother.
"I hope that Jesus returns very soon, and that is an honest-to-God statement. I wasn't ready for the rapture back when I was young and in high school or in college and thought, you know, that I had my whole life before me, but the more I see the turn of events, I don't want Jesus to tarry. If he came back in this instant, it would be -- it would not be soon enough for me."
From the father.
(about the bible) "It defines when I let Rick drive, what hours I let Rick drive. It defines the mundane things."
From the daugther.
"All you have to understand is, I'm a sinner and I need Jesus, and Jesus died for me.
That's all you need to understand"
MARIN (the program host): For people who don't embrace Jesus, what happens to them?
C. CARLISLE: They go to hell.
MARIN: For sure?
C. CARLISLE: For sure. There's no other way to heaven except through Jesus.
If you don't accept Jesus as your savior, and you don't believe it in your heart that he's died for you, then you're going to go to hell.
And there's no alternative."
"I didn't understand completely everything about being a Christian right then, but I understood that I needed Jesus. He went through everything he went through because of me. I killed him, and so that's all I need to understand, that he just died for me, and that's all I need to know."
posted on November 16, 2004 09:32:37 AM new
"Of course they are forcing their religious beliefs of me and others. Example: They want to end abortion, that includes MALE christians who would never need one"
No they aren't, unless of course you can relate the last time they forced you to have, or not have an abortion.
"The same goes for the Gay Marriage issue. If two men, or two women want to get married,"
And of course they can "marry", they just can't get a union in the legal sense
"There are many political action committees that are religion based that are always trying to push their agenda on the country as a whole, regardless of a person is religious or not."
Yeah, just like MoveOn.org, Michael Moore, Sean Penn, and who knows and who cares who else.
Your hangup with religion and posting about every wacko you find is as boring as it would be for Linda to start posting every every sex crime by deviant gays across the country.
posted on November 16, 2004 10:06:55 AM new
Michael Moore and Sean Penn aren't PAC's. It's just a simple debate here. Nothing to have a stroke over.
"And of course they can "marry", they just can't get a union in the legal sense."
That's what gay men and women want. The same legal protection that is afforded to everyone else in this country. It seems for now, we have a country that recognizes two different classes of people. One who is allowed recognition and privilege, and one who in not. As far as the Gay Marriage issue in concerned, the religious right is primarily responsible for this.
I don't know about you, but I support rights for everyone. That includes blacks, women, gays, and other minorities. That is what a truly free and equal society is about. I have no positive thoughts about anyone or any group that works to suppress people.
posted on November 16, 2004 12:22:13 PM new
Yeager : They want to end abortion, that includes MALE Christians who would never need one........
That is the stupidest statement ever made and makes no sense whatsoever!
Twelve pole baits you and the others but even he doesn't post with the voraciousness about gays, as you do your hang-up's with religion.
Why does it bother you so much that people find comfort in their faith? Is it because you have none and in your darkest moment youre all alone with your piddleing self?
ed
---
[ edited by neroter12 on Nov 16, 2004 12:23 PM ]
posted on November 16, 2004 12:48:01 PM new"Twelve pole baits you and the others but even he doesn't post with the voraciousness about gays, as you do your hang-up's with religion."
You gotta be kidding Nero.
Nero, let's say you had friend that did drugs and openly told everyone. They thought their life was great but you saw how negatively it was affecting them. Would you say something? Would you try and reason with them or talk sense into them, or just let them live in their delusion?
posted on November 16, 2004 01:12:14 PM new
Kidding what, Kraft? Obviously 12pole doesnt advocate gayness, but he sure baits for the entertainment of this board (or his own amusement) - but its not as bad an obsession as yeager has with religion.
You, my friend, are another baiter, btw
If having faith is comparatively delusional or as harmful as doing drugs, I would answer youR question - but its not.
But since you seem to know so much about drugs, and not religion, I can understand your confusion with the two. As for me, I smoked some pot in highschool and experimented with some other things, but put that behind me when I became an adult. I dont move in circles with people that do or can afford recreational drugs in their lifestyle. So I have no experience or point of reference to tell you what I would or would not do, if a friend was on drugs. I can tell you though, what a thrill it is to go to the grocery store and find a surprise buy one, get one free.
SEE the edit r
-----
[ edited by neroter12 on Nov 16, 2004 01:44 PM ]
posted on November 16, 2004 01:30:46 PM new
Nero, maybe you weren't here a while back when every post Twelve started was about gays. He would also mention gays in non-gay-related posts and talk about how he'd like to kill them and beat them up. Yeager's posts don't even come close.
As for baiting, if asking loaded questions is baiting then yes, you're right. On a discussion board, I would hope everyone would do that to get a lively discussion going. And yes, Twelve's topics are some of the best. He can push some buttons here which is what it's all about imo.
And for religion being bad for a person, I beg to differ. Religion REPLACES normal thinking as Yeager's article showed. To designate a certain day to drive or not drive because of something a book told you, and not because you logically came to that decision, is not normal behavior, and imo, this family needs help.
Nero I know enough about religion to know there's a big difference between it and God.
posted on November 16, 2004 01:53:31 PM new
Kraft, there's lots of things that condition peoples thinking. Some dont do things because they believe in astrology. Some do or dont do things because they are superstitious or fearful. Some base their decisions on the weather or wont go out in the rain. The list goes on and on......
So who cares if they choose to believe not to drive on a certain time? Where is the harm in that?
You know what you dont get, Kraft? Faith is as much a choice and freedom as being gay is, and these people need your help as much as a gay guy does from twelvepole!
I have to run out on some errands but will bbl later.
posted on November 16, 2004 03:27:42 PM new
Nero, these people make it everyone's business by having their stories told on places like CNN.
I see no difference between a small child saying they've been 'saved by God', than a KKK child saying 'white power'. The brainwashing in religion starts at a young age and provides only one side of the story. That can be detrimental to a growing child trying to survive in the real world, and mixed up children aren't usually prone to becoming doctors and lawyers.
If these adults want to live like that, fine. But don't plant this junk into your kids heads.
posted on November 16, 2004 10:17:11 PM new
kraft, lol. You are a funny one. So now its against YOUR idea of what a parent should teach their own children? Why dont you just say all religion is brain washing? Is it okay for orthodox jews not to do things after sundown on certain days, or not eat pork - or are they brainwashing their children too? And this is your business, as in effects you, how? Oh wait, I know, there wont be enough doctors and lawyers, right?
lol......
posted on November 17, 2004 12:08:19 AM new
Let me clarify my point about MALE chirstians and abortions.
MALE christains also work to make sure any FEMALE won't be able to have an abortion if she wanted one. I have seen them protest with their signs locally. Even thought it would never have an affect on the life of the person not having an abortion, they seem to think it's their business.
It's a legal medical procedure, and for some reason the bible thumpers want to control it, even though they would never want one. If that is not an act of wanting outright control over society, then I don't know what is.
"So now its against YOUR idea of what a parent should teach their own children? Why don't you just say all religion is brain washing? Is it okay for orthodox jews not to do things after sundown on certain days, or not eat pork - or are they brainwashing their children too? And this is your business, as in effects you, how?"
I myself wonder how it is the business of the christian community if a same sex couple
wants to get married. Or how is it the business of them when a woman want to have a medical procedure called an abortion. The fact is, and alway will be, that it doesn't affect them in any way.
As far as brain washing kids, we all do it. We do it because it is acceptable to do it. Sometimes the children grow out of it when they grow older. Examples of this would be the tooth fairy, the easter bunny, and Santa Claus. As they get older, they realize these characters are not true to life. They learn from their friends, and sometimes schoolmate that this is a falsehood. While in the case of religion, it's not really socially acceptable to do this. Especially when there are churches and other such building of faith that adults take their children to, many time right up to the late teens.
As for me starting these threads about Gay men and women, I do it to counter the hatred that is spread here and elsewhere.
Side note. I have twelve and parklane on ignore and I am really enjoying not seeing what they have to input.
[ edited by yeager on Nov 17, 2004 12:41 AM ]
posted on November 17, 2004 12:55:56 PM new
Nero, what's the point of not driving on certain days? What's the point in not eating pork? Whether it's religious tradition or not, these ideas are meant to control people who want to be controlled by someone other than themselves. If a person needs God to figure out whether they need an abortion, blood transfusion, what food to eat, what to wear, who to vote for, etc., are they really in control of their own minds? What God would want people to think this way?
Yes, I think it's brainwashing - especially when started at such a young age. And yes, I think organized religion relies on brainwashing to get people to follow their rules - and the prize is you get special favours from God and a ticket into heaven if you follow these rules. I don't see any difference between organized religion and a cult.
Yeager, I agree with you about this (I agree with you on most subjects).
posted on November 17, 2004 04:46:51 PM new
kraft,
Organized religion is sort of a cult. In a cult, the master or leader invites people to follow the structure of the cult. If a person is accepted and then follows the structure of the cult, then he/she is offered protection and some sort of reward. Isn't that the same concept of obey the bible, (in this case, driving the car) and accepting a given idea, such as jesus died for your sins, and a final reward of going to heaven.
Some people are lost when it comes to thinking for themselves it's pathetic. David Koresh and the Waco, Texas gang might be a good example. They relinquished their own thinking to follow his ideas. They viewed him as an god or idol of sorts. He offered them protection for their devotion. Of course, nothing positive happened there.
In my other thread titled the Millerites is another perfect example of relinquished thinking. I truly don't understand why the total population of the cathlick religion have a pope, sort of like a grand pooba. How can millions of people let one man conduct them in their lives. Especially when he can't walk 5 feet without some help, and can hardly speak a clear sentence. Another example of people who give up their thinking, and allow it to filter down to others in the form of cardinals, and then priests. All starting from a single person. This group of course has their own version of the bible, and of course IT'S CORRECT!!!
These religious bigots would probably not bother me. But when they are such bigots and criminals, and have their noses in the personal lives of others, then they become my target.
Kraft, Thanks for your support here. It must be that I live so close to Canada and it rubs off on me! The Canadian people are very nice.
posted on November 17, 2004 05:16:04 PM new
So yeager finally admits Christians are his target and that he thinks they're bigots. Don't think that revelation will be a surpise to anyone here.
Then he says:
As for me starting these threads about Gay men and women, I do it to counter the hatred that is spread here and elsewhere.
While he 'counters' what he decides is 'hatred towards gays', he spreads his own hatred towards those of faith. But I bet he doesn't see himself as a religious bigot....no...not yeager.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 17, 2004 05:23:37 PM new
KD What God would want people to think this way?
A God that has given his people 'free will'. To choose or not to choose to follow him. A choice. Can't make it any clearer. No one is being forced down this road...they CHOOSE it themselves....free to do so under our Constititution...which gives of Freedom of Religion.
And it would be very easy to post some ultra-liberal wacko's practices too. Does that mean we have the right to tell them how to live their lives, raise their children, whether they should believe this or that? No....it does not. We are a FREE people.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 17, 2004 06:03:39 PM new
Linda, what's the difference between Yeager's feelings about organized religion and someone being anti-gay? Are people to never question traditions?
posted on November 17, 2004 06:46:31 PM new
KD - what's the difference between Yeager's feelings about organized religion and someone being anti-gay?
Yeager sounds to me like he hates religious people totally...paints all with the same broad brush. He sets his agenda to continue posting threads where he can spew his hatred ... mock them.
On the differences between yeager those who are anti-gay...it all depends on whether or not the person who YOU judge to be anti-gay is acting in a demeaning way towards the other person/group of people.
Most religious people don't HATE gays, they hate the behavior, not the person...as the left here tends to constantly imply. Some, like myself, are against gay marriage. That doesn't mean I HATE them. But...again the left choose to continue to see it that way.
And I don't see anyone here setting up anti-gay thread after anti-gay thread to harass and put down people like yeager does all the time. If someone were to do that....every leftie here would have a complete hissy fit. But somehow it's different to many when the faith of others is being trashed - on a continual basis.
Are people to never question traditions?
What leads you to believe they haven't questioned traditions and that they've made personal decisions about their beliefs/morals/values, and like many of our traditions? Maybe they've changed on some and not others. THEIR choice.
What I think you fail to see, KD, is that mocking people of faith, calling them names is no more going to change their beliefs than to try to get a gay person to change his sexuality.... when they don't want to.
It's total intolerance of the choices each make for themselves. [gays and people of faith]
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Nov 17, 2004 06:51 PM ]
posted on November 17, 2004 07:16:18 PM new
Linda, I don't see Yeager hating religious people, I just see him not being able to understand what drives them to do hypocritical things, like the priest molestations... Not approving of gay lifestyles, yet many are gay themselves... Not approving of drugs or sex but doing drugs and visitng prostitutes. Even in everyday life you see these religious people bombing abortion clinics, killing abortion doctors and forcing their moral beliefs upon women who want to be free to make their own decisions. You see religous people on this board who will tell you their belief system is the only belief system (the Jesus version) and if you refuse to believe it all, you'll end up in hell. This is the type of stuff he questions and I think he does it well.
