posted on November 17, 2004 07:48:16 PM new
Looks like I'm coming into this one late ;(
KD, what exactly was the family in the OP doing that you find hypocritical?
And a point not yet mentioned... WHO said the girl was saved at three years old, the child herself? For all we know she was saved two months ago and doesn't estimate time well. I cannot picture a three year old understanding "getting saved" either.
What's the deal about using the car on certain days? I don't get that.
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I heard this on the Boortz and Hannity shows today, but haven't actually found anything online yet.
On a hilariously related political note... The exit polls said that Americans voted for morality on November 2nd. Guess who recently "got saved" in a Pentecostal church in Arkansas very recently? HITLERY CLINTON! She's already working on looking more moral for 2008.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 17, 2004 08:18:17 PM new
Replay, I don't think the guy in the article was doing anything hypocritical. I was just generalizing about Yeager's religious posts.
posted on November 17, 2004 08:20:32 PM new
I have written many times in this little box and I try to figure out Yeager. I come up with the same thing. "attention getter." Yes. I feel he starts these threads to bring attention to HIM because he knows he will be the center of attention. Obviously he has nothing else to occupy his time or thoughts.
When he gets to Canada he will find the same things there as here, no matter what KD says.
It tough to argue religion with people that don't believe in it. Yeager must really have to search for some of those articles he posts and their religious habits.
There are some good ones also Amish, mennionites, I suppose you could call them cults also. But people will be people and they will never change.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
[ edited by Libra63 on Nov 17, 2004 08:31 PM ]
posted on November 17, 2004 10:09:04 PM new
helen - Linda, you can't speak for Yeager or anyone else here. Your erroneous version of what we say is not appreciated.
LOL....well my opinion of what's said here IS what you're going to get whether you like it or agree or hate them. They're MY opinions helen. You take care of helen's opinions and views and I'll take care of my own , thank you very much.
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KD - I don't care what yeager says he's not against. That would be like me expecting expecting you to believe I support gay marriage, after a million times that I've already posted I don't. It just ain't so how he refers to them, puts them down, calls them names all the time, just goes to prove that.
No one is blind here....it's clearly evident from his own words.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 17, 2004 10:15:55 PM new
You're joking right, replay? I thought she already was a Christian...they've reported she's attended prayer meetings in the Senate building at least since President Bush was elected.
But...it sure wouldn't surpise me since this ties in with the opening ceremonies of the library.
And just to note...she was interviewed on Greta's show [Fox News] tonight. She's setting things up for 2008....and going more public since kerry announced that supposedly now he's thinking of running again in 2008. Boy that will throw some water on her plans. Think the clinton's were secretly hoping for Bush to be re-elected so that Hillary could run in '08. Looks like kerry's going to show them, and hillary's getting a head start.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2004 03:44:45 AM new
linda says,
"A God that has given his people 'free will'. To choose or not to choose to follow him. A choice"
"And it would be very easy to post some ultra-liberal wacko's practices too. Does that mean we have the right to tell them how to live their lives, raise their children, whether they should believe this or that? No....it does not. We are a FREE people."
Well, If I were a married man who had a girlfriend on the side, how would that have an affect on you on anyone in your church? If I were a gay man and had a lover, how would that have an affect on you or anyone in your church. If I were a woman who was pregnant and wanted to have an abortion, how would that have any affect on you or anyone in your church. The fact is, that in all of these cases, it doesn't have an affect on you, OR anyone in your church, including the pastor, or priest or the person sitting next to you. You linda, are the one who said we are a free people. Having the right to choose our belief systems, if any.
So, here is the question if you have the courage to answer it. Given the 3 examples that I just did, why is it that organized religion seems to want to mold society to a vision of what it deems to be acceptable?
linda says,
"Some, like myself, are against gay marriage. That doesn't mean I HATE them".
How would any same sex couple that want to get married have an affect on you or anyone in your church? It doesn't and you know it. However, it's people like you that use the church and it's organized power to control others. Even though you said, "we are a FREE people". Controlling behavior or not design to create a molded society?
Linda says,
"Yeager sounds to me like he hates religious people totally."
Wrong again linda! I hate religious bigotry. Here is an example. I love north of Detroit and many times go into the ghetto to some of the junk stores. I have an uncle who is a devoted catholic, who attends church every Sunday. If I were to ask him if he was a christian and saved, I strongly believe that he would say yes. But! When I tell him that I do to Detroit to the ghetto junk stores, he replies....."Aren't you afraid of getting shot by some Nigger?"
Christian bigot or not?
As kraft has said, and quite well too, I have no tolerance for those people who practice religion and try to mold society into the "traditional value system" then use drugs, pick up hookers, rape children, steal from others. What really boggles my mind is they continue to have followers. I think that if anyone employed a babysitter and the sitter did anyone of these things, you would fire them and call the police. By the blind christans seem to continue to love to follow these "saved" sinners.
linda says,
"calling them names is no more going to change their beliefs than to try to get a gay person to change his sexuality."
Is that statement an admission that a gay person would find it difficult to change his sexuality?
posted on November 18, 2004 04:07:55 AM new
libra says,
"Yeager must really have to search for some of those articles he posts and their religious habits."
"There are some good ones also Amish, Mennonites, I suppose you could call them cults also. But people will be people and they will never change."
Actually libra, these articles are usually found from the Associated Press. They are not hard to find either. I do really like studying people and their habits, including religious habits and beliefs.
As far as the Amish and the Mennonites, they are a branch of the christian religion. There are only Amish people in the US and Canada. They were a people of Europe and lived their quite well until about the 1700's when they started to flee to the United States. They started to settle in Pennsylvania when William Penn began bringing them to this country. It was one of the first relocations specifically due to religion in this country. The reason for this is that the Amish were frowned upon in the fact they wanted to baptize their children at the age of 18, instead of shortly after birth as traditional christian do.
So, with this in mind, the chirstian church started to kidnap the Amish people and place them into large burlap bags and throw them into rivers. The church thought that it would be an appropriate punishment for them in the fact they refused to baptize their children traditionally. There are NO Amish in Europe due to these happenings. The major Amish population in the US is in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Indiana, and Michigan. In Canada, primarily in Ontario.
You are right, "But people will be people and they will never change." Just as the church wanted to control the Amish 300 years ago, they now have their sites on the gay population. Their goal will be to control or reverse the gains made in the gay community. The women's rights movement in my opinion is also targeted by the church, as is anything that is against their belief of what society should be.
posted on November 18, 2004 04:30:29 AM new
What some of these posters are missing is that that not all of those voting against homosexual marriage, abortion and so forth are even religious... they know the difference of right and wrong...
Over 2 million Michiganders know
too bad the anti-religious bigot posting here is too blind to see what he calls others he himself is... also kraft borders on the old bigotry trail... she has no room to talk...
How did it hurt you to have the ten commandments on building? How did it hurt you to have a cross standing?
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
Bigotry and prejudice -- these are assertions, not arguments. This is name-calling, not case-building.
[ edited by Twelvepole on Nov 18, 2004 04:49 AM ]
posted on November 18, 2004 07:08:53 AM new "well my opinion of what's said here IS what you're going to get whether you like it or agree or hate them. They're MY opinions helen. You take care of helen's opinions and views and I'll take care of my own , thank you very much."
You have misunderstood my comment, linda. I said, "Linda, you can't speak for Yeager or anyone else here. Your erroneous version of what we say is not appreciated." Of course, it's OK to have an opinion about the topics. I was not referring to those opinions but to your practice of lying about other's opinions.
Whenever I see such fallacious thinking on your part, I'll point it out so that maybe you will understand.
posted on November 18, 2004 08:37:21 AM new
not you KD. Yeager made reference to the nice people in Canada and that is what I was referring to.
Basically there are good people everywhere and if we want to remain good we have to seek them out. This will make our lives so much easier. We don't have to follow a way of life we don't approve of.
Religion is between a person and their god whoever it is. When something happens in a religion that doesn't meet with the normal standard, what ever that is, right away the journalists have to jump on the story and make it know to the general public then the public blows it out of proportion.
Have you noticed there is more bad news in the papers than good. Check your paper today and see how many feel good stories there are compared to the bad news.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 18, 2004 08:41:56 AM new
Here is a fact. If Kerry runs for President in 2008 his wife will be 70.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 18, 2004 09:00:52 AM new
Libra: "she'd be 70." And your point is???
And will some of you please tell us why it's okay to question someone's claim to having been saved (Mrs. Clinton) and to see it as hypocritical, to question her motives--when it's not okay for some of us to point to hypocritical church leaders who lie, cheat, steal, molest?
posted on November 18, 2004 09:27:19 AM new
Libra, I saw three seperate briefs in today's paper. One is about a local church setting up on Saturday to distribute Turkey/Ham and food to the poor. Another is about a local church's woman's group that is having a craft and bake sale to benefit breast cancer survivors. And still another inviting the public to a gospel fest and potluck dinner.
These are not what yeager or kraft are interested in. They are ONLY interested in abberant deviant behavior to affirm what they choose to believe is some great majority of what churchs or church members are doing. They dont have a clue about real life and real people who belong to a church community. pfffst....idiots.
posted on November 18, 2004 09:48:37 AM new
Roadsmith said: "when it's not okay for some of us to point to hypocritical church leaders who lie, cheat, steal, molest?"
It's perfectly OK to point these things out. I am a Christian and I'll be the first to admit there are rapist priests out there. There are ambezzling preachers out there. Facts are facts, and it needs to be discussed openly.
The problem is that people like Yeager try to transmit the actions of a very small percentage of perverts onto the entire Christian community.
And Hitlery? She was already supposed to be "deeply religious" as was her husband. This whole born again thing is just SOOOO obviously politcal. She's going to try to "get more conservative" over the next four years. Guess why?
I'm not saying she's not a believer, cause I simply am not in her head. But it certainly DOES appear to be awfully convenient.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 18, 2004 10:01:15 AM new
roadsmith I wasn't making a point, I was making a statement as everyone else does in the RT including you..............
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 18, 2004 12:04:24 PM newAnd will some of you please tell us why it's okay to question someone's claim to having been saved (Mrs. Clinton) and to see it as hypocritical, to question her motives--
And how does being saved differ from Bush's claim of being "born again"? Did he die and his mother give birth a second time?
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
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There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 18, 2004 12:09:19 PM newAs far as the Amish and the Mennonites, they are a branch of the christian religion.
All religious sects today are a branch of a few main religions. Perhaps all those that are in favor of gay marriages should form their own religion - make their own branch of the religion they favor.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 18, 2004 12:43:42 PM new
Libra, I know there are good religious people. It's not hard to be a good person. They aren't the ones we're talking about though. We're talking about the hypocritical ones that give religion a bad name - the ones that preach one thing yet do the opposite... The ones that want to change laws because they're more moral than the ones in place... The ones that criticize non-religious people for not choosing the God path, etc.
I think religious people would welcome this kind of criticism, but they don't. There doesn't seem to be any checks and balances in religion or this stuff would've been dealt with long ago.
posted on November 18, 2004 01:53:33 PM new
"And how does being saved differ from Bush's claim of being "born again"?"
Technically, no difference. However, Bush didn't do it obviously to garner religious voters. I'm not really sure when it happened to Bush, but it certainly wasn't newsworthy at the time.
"Did he die and his mother give birth a second time?"
That's just asinine. You know the meaning as well as anyone else here.
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We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 18, 2004 04:41:15 PM new
replay - From what I've read President Bush decided to become a Christian when he quit drinking...at the age of 40. I believe he's 56 or 57 now. He doesn't use his faith for political gain as have both hillary and kerry....to gave favor [or fool] people into thinking they can be trusted to protect our religious freedoms.
And hillary claims she has been a person of faith since she was a child. And NOW she's choosing Christianity? Yes, imo it is for political gain...to the WH in 2008.
There's many articles on the internet where she's previously been quoted as being a Christian.....and this link is one where she speaks about herself...and her history.
Funny that she doesn't mention her job, after college, where she worked as an intern for lawyers that defended members of the Communist Party. Guess that doesn't help politically, so she neglects to mention it while sharing her faith.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Four More Years....YES!!!
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helen....I didn't misunderstand what you said. I stated how I see his hatred. And that's what I referred to in my post.
Again you give your opinions/views and I'll give mine. When you give mine it doesn't work for me.
The fact that you don't see it doesn't suprise me one bit. Because you are an atheist. I would expect you to agree with him.
posted on November 18, 2004 04:54:12 PM new
Yes, KD, between my typing skills and spelling knowledge it happens sometimes.
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If Kerry runs for President in 2008 his wife will be 70.
That's right, but will all her money we won't even notice....cosmetic surgery does wonders.
Should he run...bet they'll keep her more out of the public lime-light than they did this time. But in a democratic primary....hillary would win hands down against kerry...so he's totally out of the picture imo. I'm sure the people of Mass. will FINALLY be glad he's returned to the Senate where he can continue with all the wonderful accomplishments he made during his 20 Senate history.
He just got the 'anybody but Bush votes'.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2004 05:16:35 PM new
yeager said:
I have no tolerance for those people who practice religion and try to mold society into the "traditional value system" then use drugs, pick up hookers, rape children, steal from others.
And I say the non-religious are no better...maybe even worse at what you described above and I hold ALL to the same standards....not JUST those of faith.
I could say: "I have no tolerance for those liberals who try to mold society away from the values/morals and the Constitution our Nation was founded on...capitalism...not socialism, and then use drugs and want to legalize them, pick up hookers and want the trade legalized, rape children, steal from others."
What you fail to grasp, imo, yeager....is that all the accusations and hatred you spew towards those of faith....are also seen and happen in the secular population - and I believe to a MUCH greater degree than those of faith. But you ONLY single out the religious as if no one else does these things. They are doing these things....wake up to the real world around you.
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The religious have no more governmental power than any other group. We each have ONE vote.
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In regards to my personal faith...it's none of your business and I find it laughable that I'd be so will to answer/post it here so you could ridicule it. No thank you, I don't like to be abused by people like you. That's your game....not mine.
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And your uncle who you imply you see as a bigot....is your problem...not mine. Tell HIM how you see him, don't tell me. I bet he'd really appreciate you telling him he's a BIGOT in your eyes. Bet he wouldn't be joining you for the flea-market finds anymore. That's how I feel about your broad-brush anti-religious people statements here. I see you as a religious bigot. Look in your own mirror, yeager.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2004 06:52:00 PM new
"And hillary claims she has been a person of faith since she was a child. And NOW she's choosing Christianity? Yes, imo it is for political gain...to the WH in 2008."
Having been a minister's daughter, let me say something about this quote. All Protestant and Catholic churches are considered "Christian" churches. It's possible to attend church most of your life in what's called a Christian church generically and never have come to a point where you are awakened, so to speak, to actively and consciously accept Christ as your saviour. This is called being "saved" or "born again." The more conservative a church is, on the Protestant spectrum, the more likely it will hold the belief that simply being born into a church or being baptized as a baby does make you "saved" or "converted" or "born again."
My Baptist father, who believed baptism by dunking was the right way to go and that it must be done on someone who's chosen to become saved at an age beyond 7 or 8, scoffed at baptism by sprinkling--"The priest lays his empty hands on the baby's empty head. . ." etc.
None of this makes any sense to me any longer; I'm only reporting it as my father and millions of churchgoers on the right end of the spectrum would explain the born again-saved bit.
Edited to add: I accidentally used my other user name to post this message. I'm not trying to confuse anyone here or be misleading!
[ edited by SuzyQ37 on Nov 18, 2004 06:55 PM ]
posted on November 18, 2004 07:13:41 PM new
linda says,
about Hilliary, "Funny that she doesn't mention her job, after college, where she worked as an intern for lawyers that defended members of the Communist Party."
linda, I know that you don't like the communist party, and neither do I. But the fact remains that she could be employed by any legal firm that she wanted to. It would be her choice, not yours. EVERYONE has that right to a defense. Also, I do believe that you or I could have voted for members of the CP if we wanted to. Is it wrong in your mind for an attorney to defend his client? What about the rapist priest that sought the defense of attorneys? What about George Bush who was arrested for drink driving? Was it wrong that he had a defense attorney?
linda says,
"And Hilliary claims she has been a person of faith since she was a child. And NOW she's choosing Christianity? Yes, imo it is for political gain...to the WH in 2008"
Well, it's quite interesting that you are able to question her faith and I am not allowed to bring forth the background of these "people of faith that rape, steal, and lie". It's also very interesting that you counter the faith of Hilliary and when I question IF a 3 year old can understand the concept of being saved (death and heaven), you find that mean spirited.
Well linda, if reference to my church going uncle, he doesn't go to Detroit with me. Remember he is the christian who calls blacks, Niggers.
linda says,
"What you fail to grasp, imo, yeager....is that all the accusations and hatred you spew towards those of faith....are also seen and happen in the secular population - and I believe to a MUCH greater degree than those of faith"
You may be correct that people of the secular population take part in the acts that I talk about. But they don't' HIDE behind the cloak of christianity to cover it. I don't' spew hatred toward people of faith. I do point out that christians are in many ways are just like "regular folk", just they THINK they are different.
linda says,
"The religious have no more governmental power than any other group. We each have ONE vote."
That is true. Each person has only one vote. That includes people of all walks of life, christians and non christians. But, what is wrong is when the church through the pastor or priest uses the biblical position to steer the congregation to the polls, and to a political position on social issues. I personally don't care what the bible says about anything. YOU SHOULD KEEP YOUR BIBLE TO YOURSELF AND NOT IN MY PERSONAL BUSINESS. After all, you are the one who said, "we are a FREE people."
posted on November 18, 2004 07:33:11 PM new
yeager - ONE person ONE vote...period. No one takes another person to the voting booth and FORCES them to vote other than they wish to.
And while you speak of influence....it also works both ways as I believe replay has already pointed out in this thread. m. moore, moveon.org...and ALL the left groups that ALSO influence people.
We EACH decide what out morals/values/ and beliefs are and we vote accordingly. You'll never stop people from being religious no matter how much you hate 'group' religion. And no one is FORCING anything down your throat. You have the choice to ignore anything....period. It's all one person, one vote....no matter WHO influenced whom.
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suzy - Here's just one article of thousands that can be found on the internet about hillary's previous public knowledge about her religion.
Taken from a link that reprinted this article, in part, from the Arkansas Democrat....a left leaning AR newspaper.
Senator Hillary Clinton built life on faith
Arkansas Democrat ^ | 8/08/04 | JANE FULLERTON
Posted on 08/08/2004 5:31:50 AM PDT
Sen. Clinton built life on faith
BY JANE FULLERTON SPECIAL TO THE DEMOCRAT-GAZETTE
Posted on Sunday, August 8, 2004
As Hillary Rodham Clinton builds the public record she began as Arkansas' first lady, continued as the nation's first lady and is now expanding as New York's junior senator, her views on religion remain central to her outlook on life and her position on issues.
Although she doesn't go out of her way to publicize her religious views, neither does she shy from discussing them. Indeed, those who know Sen. Clinton believe her Christian faith has been the motivation for many of the causes she has championed.
If she were to run for the office once held by her husband, she would find those religious beliefs and the role they play in both her public and private life under a greater microscope than ever before.
Her religious viewpoint, shaped by her traditional Methodist upbringing, has remained consistent from her youth-group activities in Illinois to her days teaching Sunday School in Little Rock to her church attendance in Washington and New York.
But in many ways, her beliefs remain a mystery to many Americans.
That doesn't surprise the Rev. Don Jones, who was Sen. Clinton's youth minister in Illinois and has remained close to her. Unlike some Christians who "wear Jesus on their sleeve," he says, "Hillary doesn't do that." Instead, Jones thinks, her religion is a core element of who she is. "Her spiritual life which is rooted in the Christian faith is really so integrated into her character and intertwined with her personality, it is hardly noticeable when you're with her," says Jones, who recently retired as professor of social ethics at New Jersey's Methodist-affiliated Drew University.
Her staff reports that Sen. Clinton attends church regularly, both when she's at home in
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 18, 2004 07:33:21 PM new
linda, you have been presenting yourself as a christian in all of your post here. So what is your point?
Suzy, none of that has ever made any sense to me. Using water to make a person closer to god, whether being dunked on being sprinkled. Ancient traditions that make no sense. Again, the question would remain, which method is correct?
, thank you very much.
