posted on November 27, 2004 01:21:29 PM new
Actually classic, I used to hunt for tree stands. Illegal hunters would put them up on my land and when I found them I'd tear 'em down and the unlucky hunter would return to find a pile of lumber with a "No Trespassing" sign on top of it. And, if he was very unlucky, I would still be there.
posted on November 27, 2004 01:41:26 PM new
I agree Crow. A tree stand is your friend. Mine works for photography as well. My stand is where 4 trails come together. I can wait for a fat doe, harvest her with a kill shot and get her (and myself) out of the woods. I will then drive for Mark....
I sing Christmas songs, such as:
Ahem...
Stomping thru the snow,
Feels like 10 below,
Looking for a doe,
Dashing thru the snow...
You get the idea...
terryann
ps- I ripped a stand or two down on our land as well. Also fell trees over old logging roads. If they don't have the decency to introduce themselves and ask, they don't have the right to be on my land armed....jmho
posted on November 27, 2004 11:15:48 PM new
This is truly bizarre.
There are things about this story we are not hearing - just has to be.
As for this person being 'owed' the American life. He is 36 years old. He would have had to be a very young hero to have saved any American lives during the Vietnam war.
Some people may have earned the right to come to America - but no one has earned the right to shoot a man on his own property and especially to shoot a teenage girl in the back.
I just wonder if there is some history between these people or others of the area.
It is way past time that immigrants are either brought into this country or allowed to walk into it and not be expected to respect the laws and the people of this country.
It is also way, way past time that anyone in this country throws out the old 'spewing racial hatred'. That is sooooooo old - it is time to give that old ploy up. It just doesn't work any more. It just doesn't work -
posted on November 28, 2004 04:14:20 PM new
From my experience, short dudes should not be messed with. Lots of pent up anger. I'd guess that that the victims spouted off some fightin' words and the little Mong dude went postal.
posted on November 28, 2004 09:16:00 PM new
Ebayauctionguy says, """From my experience, short dudes should not be messed with. Lots of pent up anger. I'd guess that that the victims spouted off some fightin' words and the little Mong dude went postal. ""
Guess you have never watched a BASKETBALL GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guess you have never watched a FOOTBALL GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted on November 29, 2004 10:46:55 PM new
Here is the latest update on this terrible incident.
Charges say 4 were shot in back
Officials charge Vang with six murders
By TOM HELD
Posted: Nov. 29, 2004
The criminal complaint charging Chia Soua Vang with six counts of first-degree intentional homicide asserts that he shot four victims in the back and all but one were unarmed during the slaughter on the gun deer season's second day.
Complaint Details
The criminal complaint charges Chai Soua Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., in the Nov. 21 shooting deaths of six hunters in Sawyer County and the wounding of two others.
According to the complaint:
Four of the dead were shot in the back.
Vang (right) initially told investigators one of the victims had shot the other hunters.
None of the victims fired at Vang until after he had shot all eight victims.
Tuesday: Vang is scheduled for a hearing in the basement of the Sawyer County jail, while spectators watch via closed circuit television in a nearby courtroom.
Those facts and other evidence cited in the complaint filed late Monday conflict with Vang's statements that he began firing upon the hunting party in self-defense, after being told to leave their property near Exeland in Sawyer County.
The complaint charges Vang, 36, with homicide in the deaths of Dennis Drew, 55, Allan Laski, 43, Mark Roidt, 28, Jessica Willers, 27, Robert Crotteau, 42, and his son, Joey Crotteau, 20. Prosecutors in the state attorney general's office also charged Vang with two counts of attempted first-degree homicide for shooting and wounding Lauren Hesebeck, 48, and Jessica Willers' father, Terry Willers, 47.
The Crotteaus, Laski and Jessica Willers all died of gunshot wounds to the back, according to autopsies by the Ramsey County (Minn.) medical examiner's office. Drew died of a gunshot wound to the abdomen, and Roidt was shot in the head.
The complaint says only Terry Willers was armed during Vang's initial rampage, and that Hesebeck eventually used Willers' gun to fire at Vang, driving him off and ending the attack. At least 20 shots were fired in the confrontation, based on accounts from Vang and the two surviving hunters.
In his first statement to authorities, Vang denied he shot anyone, claiming that Willers took his gun and shot the others. He later admitted to shooting the eight people, while asserting he acted in self-defense, according to authorities.
All of the victims lived in or near Rice Lake in Barron County and were part of a larger hunting group. The close friends and relatives were hunting together on land owned by Robert Crotteau and Terry Willers.
Their deaths tainted the season for thousands of hunters throughout Wisconsin and devastated people who knew and loved the victims. Thousands of people in and around Rice Lake attended the six wakes and funerals over a period of mourning that began Nov. 21 and stretched through the Thanksgiving weekend.
While it fails to answer the overriding question of why, the criminal complaint offers some answers to those struggling to come to grips with the tragedy and rebuts Vang's assertions of self-defense.
In the scenario laid out in the complaint, Willers first confronted Vang after finding the truck driver from St. Paul, Minn., in a tree stand on his property.
Willers told a state Department of Justice investigator that he approached Vang with his deer rifle slung over his shoulder, as he walked back to a hunting cabin roughly a half mile away. Willers radioed to the cabin and checked if anyone had given permission for another hunter to use the tree stand. They said no, and Willers told Vang to leave.
As Vang walked away, Hesebeck, the Crotteaus, Drew and Roidt arrived on two all-terrain vehicles and also confronted the suspect. None carried guns, Hesebeck and Willers told authorities.
Hesebeck and Willers reported that Robert Crotteau swore at Vang while ordering him off the property, directed others to write down his hunting license number and threatened to report him to the state Department of Natural Resources.
Vang told an investigator the group made threatening gestures and racial slurs. Hesebeck and Willers said no one in the group threatened the suspect at any time.
After walking roughly 30 yards from Willers and the others, Vang removed the scope from his 7.62mm SKS rifle. He then turned and faced the group.
Willers told an investigator he unslung his rifle and held it in front of him while directing Vang to leave. Vang then began shooting, according to the victims' account.
Vang has said Willers fired at him first, but missed.
According to the complaint, the initial shots launched a surreal chain of events. A bullet hit Willers in the neck and exited his shoulder, paralyzing him. As more shots rang out, Willers and Hesebeck looked around to see Roidt and Drew on the ground.
Hesebeck sought cover behind an ATV, but Vang scrambled around the vehicle and fired three shots, wounding Hesebeck in the shoulder with the third.
Vang then chased down Robert and Joey Crotteau as they ran through the woods toward the cabin.
The elder Crotteau's body was found about 40 yards from the initial scene. His son, shot four times in the back, died about 100 yards deeper in the woods.
After he was shot, Hesebeck radioed for help and began to give first aid to Willers and Drew. Carter Crotteau, 18, drove toward the shootings on an ATV. Along the way, he picked up Brandon Willers, who had a rifle.
Vang told an investigator that as he saw them approach, he changed his hunting coat from blaze orange to camouflage, and reloaded his gun, but chose not to fire upon the pair, who then helped Terry Willers to safety. The complaint does not state whether the two younger men saw Vang at that point.
With six hunters now killed or wounded, Laski and Jessica Willers approached the scene on an ATV, in response to Hesebeck's call for help. They drove about 10 to 15 feet past Vang, who shot them off the vehicle, the complaint says.
The suspect told an investigator that Laski was taking a rifle from his shoulder, but no gun was found near the ATV he and Willers were riding.
Once again, Vang turned his attention to Hesebeck, stating his surprise that one of his initial victims was still alive. Hesebeck ducked behind a small dirt hill and exchanged shots with Vang, who then ran down an ATV trail.
After roaming through the woods, Vang hitched a ride with another hunter, who delivered him to a waiting DNR warden about 5:30 p.m., five hours after the killings.
Vang is being held in the Sawyer County Jail in lieu of $2.5 million bail.
He is expected to make his initial court appearance today in the basement of the jail. The location provides additional security.
Family members of the victims and other spectators will watch the proceedings on television monitors in the county courthouse.
In a briefing with reporters, Attorney General Peg Lautenschlager declined to answer questions about details of the case, citing the ongoing investigation.
Stacy Forster of the Journal Sentinel staff contributed to this report.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 30, 2004 01:43:43 PM new
I think the shooter must have been a deer in a previous life and came back for his revenge.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 30, 2004 02:46:49 PM new
Well that sure is a new twist. I have never thought about it that way. Lucky I only have shot one deer, I hope that doesn't come back to haunt me.
_________________
To Quote John Kerry in his concession speech. "But in an american election, there are no losers, because whether or not our candidates are successful, the next morning we all wake up as Americans
posted on November 30, 2004 08:22:01 PM new
You can buy venison a lot cheaper than you can shoot it from a treestand, crowfarm.
Sorry, maybe I'm just a stickler, but if you called it treestand harvesting, or treestand shopping, I wouldn't have a complaint. Somehow, training deer to come to a feeder full of corn for a season, and then shooting them from above, after you've spent a few exciting wilderness hours smoking cigarettes and nipping on a bottle while dressed in your pricey Cablela's camo couture just doesn't sound like "hunting" to me...more like shooting fish in a barrel.
I hunt, as in "look for" elk and sometimes deer. I don't like venison much. It's dry, chalky, not worth the effort. I do it on horseback, or on foot. I go to their territory, stalk them, and at least half the time take my kill with a bow, and often a handgun rather than a rifle. That, to me, is hunting.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on November 30, 2004 11:31:14 PM new
Dear profe,
(the Martha Stewart of the Wilderness), I do not feed the deer, what makes you think I do?
My hunters neither drink (while hunting) nor smoke. What makes you think they do?
They use bow, handguns and muskets ( I, and the law, do not allow rifles).
No, they don't run down the deer and slit their throats with a Bowie knife but I guess they're just lazy (and SMART).
Let me know when you do.
I don't pay anything for venison, I get it free as a gift from my friends who hunt.
I don't cook but can throw venison in a crock pot with some herbs, salt, pepper and onions and have a wonderful meal. But I'm happy with simple things and don't have your superior gourmet tastes.
Where I live IS DEER territory, walking out my back door is deer territory.....hiking miles doesn't prove a thing nor does it make you a better hunter.
I explained in a previous post why a treestand is a good way to hunt.
My friends are just good, simple people with nothing to prove. They also have jobs and limited time and can't spend days wandering in the wilderness just to prove ....what???????That they have time to wander????
They ALSO "Fish with Grizzlies" and "Hunt with Horse For Elk". They shoot the over-populating whitetails for food.
You have a nice life but it's not the only way to live.
Quit being so narrow-minded, there are many different "right" ways to live (and hunt).
posted on December 1, 2004 02:28:50 AM new
In PA, it's illegal to bait animals (hunt over food). However, I am aware some states allow it. I harvested a big doe on Monday.
I guess I'm not sneaky enough to creep up on one and shoot it. And venison is a very lean red meat with no added chemicals and preservatives. We are also overrun with deer.
And no one is going to sell meat for less than 30 cents per pound....(hunting license, doe tag and one bullet).
posted on December 1, 2004 04:44:57 AM new
Having an opinion doesn't make you narrow minded crowfarm. Venison isn't my favorite meat, and I told you why. Sounds to me like you're getting it the best way, free.
I don't care how you harvest your deer, and I don't object to it either. I know you have plenty. So do we. My only objection is to calling it hunting.
The hunter in the OP used a rifle, and terryann has also mentioned hers. I guess your state is a bit different. I don't have anything against rifles, either. I use one for elk, which is my favorite large game.
By the way...I don't own a Bowie knife
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
Have you ever tried canning venison? It's not that difficult, although time consuming. I imagine you could do elk the same way.
I've always wanted to hunt elk. That's alot of meat, but I can barely haul a deer out of the woods with no snow without ALOT of pit stops. I can't imagine hauling one of those!
posted on December 2, 2004 08:55:06 PM new
Venison on the grill is excellent. And cooking it that way makes it taste much like pork chops on the grille.
posted on December 3, 2004 04:30:29 PM new
Elk is my favorite hunt, and my favorite wild meat. It is a lot of work, but the rewards are great. An 800 pound elk will feed several families all winter, yielding easily 400 pounds of meat. We use horses to hunt, and a mule to pack the kills out.
One way I cooked a big dry venison roast one time, and it came out pretty good. I browned it in oil, then packed brown sugar, fresh cranberries and herbs of provence all around it. Lots of black pepper, garlic cloves mashed and kosher salt, and poured Guinness all over the whole thing and braised it for hours in a big black dutch oven. Elk is good this way too.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
I think my favorite way to fix venison is to cut the backstrap about 1/2" thick, let it marinate in Chiavetta's (Speidie sauce will work) and grill over a wood fire. Very good over charcoal or on a gas grill too, just be careful not to overcook. Mmmmm, mmmmm, can I have some more?!?
posted on December 3, 2004 06:27:57 PM new
I'm with Profe51 on the elk, it too is my favorite of the wild meat with oryx being a close second. Here in New Mexico we have a small population of oryx in the southern portion of the state at White Sands Missle Range.
My Brother and a friend of his went on an oryx hunt a couple of years ago and he, my Brother, got half of the meat. It's a dark meat that tastes similar to elk.
Here's a picture of oryx and a website you can visit to read about our NM oryx.
posted on December 5, 2004 03:19:16 PM new
ebayautionguy said,
I have a hard enough time hunting for food in the grocery store.
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yeah,with our meager ebay earnings,we have to supplement our dinner with some shooting!
-sig file -------Life is one big happy 'All You Can Eat' buffet .
