posted on November 28, 2004 03:19:33 PM new
So then it is now the parents fault? LOL you libs crack me up...
Won't accept parents responsibility on anything else like why is this kid wearing this shirt to begin with?
What did the "anti-gay" shirts say? if there were any at all...
This state just passed a constitutional amendment addition stating marriage is between one man and one woman... if that student was wearing that shirt to instigate trouble, then the parents are fault... you are right for once kraft...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
[ edited by Twelvepole on Nov 28, 2004 03:20 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 03:21:27 PM new
Replay - I was in high school in the 80s too. I don't recall those with a lisp or a limp being attacked in the public one. I remember wars between the "jocks" and the "freaks" but that was never more than a bunch of insults and yelling matches, and well, that's high school. That's where you learn to deal with the idiots in life and hopefully accept that not everyone is going think the same way you do. It's where you gain the impulse control that keeps you from tossing a stapler at the idiot next to you at work no matter how strong the urge. That's a good thing
Twelve - I don't care how hard you try, you are not going to convince me that you think that wearing a t-shirt with a socially controversial image and committing an illegal physical asssault are the same thing. I give you more credit than to believe that you are truly that stupid.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Nov 28, 2004 03:23 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 03:22:22 PM new
Twelve, that's like saying I don't hate people, I just hate heterosexuality.
But I do agree with you when you said kids should be responsible for their actions. If someone wants to wear anti slogan t-shirts, they should be aware that there could be consequences.
Replay, I'm not sure what Fenix said, but I think IF kids were allowed, by their parents, to wear anti-gay t-shirts to school, the parents must condone the shirt and the behaviour associated with that kind of statement.
[ edited by kraftdinner on Nov 28, 2004 04:03 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 03:25:00 PM new
I have absolutely NO argument with that. Parents should be held FAR more accountable than they usually are. But that statement could quickly become a whole thread to itself.
[ edited by replaymedia on Nov 28, 2004 03:25 PM ]
posted on November 28, 2004 03:57:05 PM new
Rush Limbaugh has blamed the NBA brawl on hip hop culture and uniforms. He called it gang behavior minus the guns and suggested that Detroit be renamed "New Fallujah, Michigan.
From the November 22 edition of The Rush Limbaugh Show:
LIMBAUGH:"There is something about this hip-hop culture business. I'm not going to mention the name because there's thousands of them, but I've been watching interviews with ex-NBA players and current NBA players. You know what the common theme that I'm hearing is? "Well, I'm not going to be dissed. I'm simply not going to be disrespected. Somebody disrespects me, they're going to pay for it." Meaning, "A fan disrespects me, that fan's going to pay for it," not just another player."
"And that comes right out of the hip-hop culture, and it's not just that. You look at NBA players and the uniforms, you don't have to go back very far. The uniforms have changed totally. They're now in gang colors. They are in gang styles."
posted on November 28, 2004 04:54:57 PM new
magster-thats a national problem thats been recognized.I assume part of the problem is diet and no excersize-too much time watching the boob tube,spending too much time playing either x-box or play station and too much time on the computer in general.
posted on November 28, 2004 05:03:14 PM new
I was thinking back and remember only one really fat person all through high school..you are right Classic.. we were always outdoors, and active..
How about all those steroids that are fed to the cattle etc.. wonder if that contributes.. because, not only are kids getting fatter, but bigger in general..
dang.. used to be a size 8 shoe was big..now the teen girls are wearing 11's!! LOL....Maggie
posted on November 28, 2004 05:49:12 PM new
I think a great deal of kids' need to express themselves through their appearance has to do with the fact that nobody gives them any other way to speak their minds. Part of a school's job, in my opinion, is to teach thinking and communication skills that will help kids voice their opinions in a positive and non confrontational way.
The sad fact remains, however, that in addition to educating kids, we are required to provide for their physical safety. This is a litigious society. There are people just itching to file suit against their school for any old perceived harm that comes down the pike. Slogans on clothing which may provoke others, or clothing which identifies a student with some group which may provoke action by others, is a potential danger to kids.
Sure, we all survived the 60's. God knows I miss those braless days!! But that was then. This is now. It's not the same.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on November 28, 2004 05:53:47 PM new
Every high school in America today has kids who take weapons to school daily. Not because they're gangsters or dealers, because they are afraid.
It wasn't like that in the 60's. I'm sorry, it just wasn't.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on November 28, 2004 07:47:32 PM new
replay says,
"Why should they have freedom of expression or freedom of speech before a certain "grownup" age?"
Because the US Supreme Court says they do. The school district is a governmental entity. Just because a person, whether 8 or 81 enters into a governmental building doesn't mean they surrender their identity or thinking.
There was a case here in Pontiac, Michigan about 2 years ago where a student was suspended for wearing a Wicca Star, (a symbol of the wicca faith). She used the ACLU to point out that other students wore crosses, (a symbol of their christain faith) and she was disallowed to a wicca star. In very early stages of this case, the student won her religious freedom.
Also, I don't know what twelve says, I have him on ignore.
libra says,
"Where in that era it was safe to ware apparel like that but it is dangerous now."
What will happen if a girl wears a skimpy skirt? Is she "asking to get raped"?
Who decides what is offensive? The teacher who might be an atheist, the principal who might be a democrat, or the janitor who might be a bible thumper.
fenix,
"All I have to say to you Replay is to beware of the adult that you create when you squash all attempts of individuality and self expression in their youth."
Any person who tries to control an individual's personality and expression may be successful in the short term, but in the long run will have a miserable, angry person on their hands. Every teenager strives to express themselves in music, dress, hairstyle, and friends. A 16 year old will be a legal adult in 2 years. they don't magically change into adult thinking on that day. It's a happens over a period of time.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on November 28, 2004 08:10:07 PM new
replay says,
"Next thing you know we'll be telling high schoolers that it's OK to be gay."
Well, for your information IT'S OK TO BE GAY IF YOU ARE GAY. Try telling a teenager who is struggling with enough of life's problems that there is a major imperfection with them. Many straight teens have hard problems with self esteem, let alone one who is struggling with his/her sexuality.
Did you know that in the middle 1950's when Elvis came onto the music scene, he was considered a horrible mark on society and teens. Seems pretty innocent now, doesn't it? As for teens acting like their idols, they always have. James Dean jackets, Elvis hair, Buddy Holly glasses, Beatles hair, and the list could go on and on.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on November 29, 2004 04:57:23 AM newWell, for your information IT'S OK TO BE GAY IF YOU ARE GAY
Sure it is, yeager. But why would a boy want to prounounce his 'sexuality' on a tee shirt to a diversified body of other kids? High school is that time where they are all struggling with their identity and sexuality...
He may be a born activist and this is emerging in him but I'm sure he is not going to be received too kindly by some of the other kids. I think one's sexuality is a personal and private thing. What would it say if all the other kids starting wearing t-shirts that say, "Proud to be Heterosexual"? -What is that?
posted on November 29, 2004 05:22:15 AM new
It's NOT OK TO BE HOMOSEXUAL... that is the message that young person needs and his parents are failing to do that...
Hopefully some of his fellow students will point that out to him...
AIN'T LIFE GRAND...
posted on November 29, 2004 05:34:35 AM new
Twelvepole, I disagree with you, there. People are who they are. If one accepts themselves as homosexual, that must be OKAY for them. It doesnt mean you have to accept it. But they are free to be who and what they want. Right now within the bounds of the laws of the land our federal government even protects this right against discrimination based on race, creed and sexual orientation.
posted on November 29, 2004 05:50:46 AM new
Well that is your choice neroter... that kid is making a horrible choice... but as he gets older he will see that...
Homosexuality may not be illegal... it should be, but it is not, it is not acceptable as was thought... look at all of the election results...
I think that today's teenager is much more accommodating to other groups that they were even 20 years ago. In many high schools in this country, there are gay clubs. For him to not pronounce his "gayness" is what traditional society would want. The simple fact is that gay people want to be recognized as a part of the total population and they aren't going to hide for anyone.
In 1970, the TV show, The Odd Couple was a gamble for the television industry. The reason was the producers thought the viewing audience would think Felix and Oscar were gay. However, it was a hit that ran for several years. Then came John Ritter who play the gay role in Threes Company. Now we have Will and Grace, where one of the stars plays a gay role (Jack) and does it so well in the fact he is gay.
Earlier in this thread, replay said that children shouldn't be given the voice of an adult. What about the 18 year old who is in high school? He is a legal adult. Should he be allowed to express himself if he is gay? What about a 21 year old in college wearing a gay pride Tee shirt? He is a legal adult. Shouldn't he be allowed to voice his adult opinion without being harassed?
The fact is, this in not about a teenager wearing a gay pride Tee shirt. It's about allowing the intolerance of others to override the individual expression of one individual. It's about people who have no self control over their actions in relation to what they see in others.
About a year ago in Metro Detroit, there was a news story about a gay man that was driving his car and minding his own business. He was the victim of a gay bashing as his car was purposely bumped several times from the rear from a group of teenagers. They saw the rainbow sticker on his car and thought he would be a "good victim". He was an adult expressing himself, and was victimized for it. Again, this is about intolerance.
Everyday I see people who show their pride in their faith and to their religion. They have bumper stickers that say Jesus Saves, God is my Co-Pilot and many others. I don't bump their cars or call them names. That's their business if they want to express themselves with these bumper stickers. The same with political bumper stickers.
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on November 29, 2004 12:07:27 PM new
Replay: Why should they have freedom of expression or freedom of steech before a certain "grownup" age?
What age do you consider a child to be grown up? At sixteen some "children" can drive (with a learner's permit). At 16 a good portion of children have had sex, had liquor and are working. If they are grownup to suffer the consequences for their actions, they should be more than a grown up to have the right to wear whatever they want.
If the school is allowing one group of people to express their individuality, then that should apply to all groups of people.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 29, 2004 12:11:42 PM new
Twinkle toes: Homosexuality may not be illegal... it should be, but it is not, it is not acceptable as was thought... look at all of the election results...
Those are your views. Not everything that is immoral is illegal and just because you may not agree with it does not mean that it should be outlawed.
There are many things in this country that are immoral - abortion and the death penalty for example - but they still happen.
I am glad you have your priorties straight (no pun intended). You spend more time arguing over two same sex people in love than you do about the killing of babies. Gotta love the conservatives for their priorities.
Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?
A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.
--------------------------------------
There's an old saying in Tennessee I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee that says, fool me once, shame on shame on you. Fool me you can't get fooled again." George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002
---------------------------------- "Give it up for George W. Bush, the best friend international jihad ever had."
posted on November 29, 2004 12:53:38 PM new
yeager, why is it when I read your posts all I see is blah, blalh, blah, bla?
Maybe because you dont get your facts straight. First of all, Will & Grace is not 'just' about Jack being gay. Secondly, Sean Hayes has never come right out and said he was gay as far as I know.
Excerpt from:http//365gay.com/NewsContent/042803glaadAwards.htm: McCormack's award was presented by Will & Grace's Sean Hayes, who plays Jack. Hayes took the audience on a roller coaster ride, coming this-close to coming out, then not doing it. Many reporters and gay fans have been irritated by Hayes'refusal to say if he's gay, straight or something in between.
If this guy is your idea of a gay hero and role model, why isnt he in a big hurry to tell the world of his gayness, or wearing a, "I'm proud to be homosexual" t-shirt?? I'll tell you why I think so. Probably because he is more proud to be a successful actor, brother, son, whatever he is, beside the fact that he prefers men sexually. Who cares?
And you know, having a bumper sticker that professes ones faith is just not quite as explicit.
-
[ edited by neroter12 on Nov 29, 2004 12:54 PM ]
posted on November 29, 2004 06:38:41 PM new
nero says,
"yeager, why is it when I read your posts all I see is blah, blalh, blah, bla?"
The answer to that is very easy to understand. I have the ability to expand (think) on a subject. There are a few here that type out a rather simplistic sentence that covers everyone and everything on any given topic. Imagine that, everything covered in one sentence.
Also, is it possible that you don't like my posts because they make rational sense to you. I give examples of the points I make.
As for Sean Hayes, I would bet he is, or he is a very good actor.
"And you know, having a bumper sticker that professes ones faith is just not quite as explicit."
Why would anyone care if a person is a christian? Why would they have the need to profess this to anyone? Isn't it supposed to be a "personal relationship with god"?
Bigots are miserable people. Prevent Bigotry through Education.
posted on November 29, 2004 08:45:49 PM newAlso, is it possible that you don't like my posts (because they make rational sense to you)
Well, you got the first half of the sentence correct! Jolly for you! There's no such thing as "rational sense," as sense in itself implies already being rational.
Your posts are full of ineffectual drivel and pomp azz ignorance. (Not to mention complete falsehoods in anything factual you post to try to support your views.)
[ edited by Twelvepole on Nov 28, 2004 03:20 PM ]
Prevent Bigotry through Education.
Sniping works up a thirst"