"Illegal Immigration". The first word says it all. It's illegal. These people are criminals. I have no problem with legal immigrants or foreigners. But if they cannot follow the regular immigration procedures, then they are criminals.
If you catch them, send them home. Now. Not after two years of appeals.
No amnsety. Not just every few years, but never.
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Replay Media - The best source for board games, card games and miniatures on the web!
posted on January 6, 2005 03:52:49 PM new
Oh yeah, one more point.
If you have been found to have HIRED an illegal immigrant, there should be a certain MANDATORY jail sentence. Nothing huge, maybe just a week or two. But the embarassment would be enough to keep most people from risking it.
Every employer should be able to get a SS# from his employees. If the employee won't give them proof of citizenship, then you just cannot hire them.
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Replay Media - The best source for board games, card games and miniatures on the web!
posted on January 6, 2005 04:16:21 PM new
I thought you had to have a SSN for employees. Even subcontractors (if you send a 1099). I would think "seasonal" workers would fall under this category.
I don't begrudge someone wanting to better their life and the lives of their family. Our ancestors did the same by coming to this country. I do believe there are ways of doing this legally. It may take some time, but most good things do.
posted on January 6, 2005 05:19:37 PM new
They have a real problem with that in southern California,with all the illegal immigrants jumping the fences all the time.They should electrify the fences and when they see a bunch of these mutts trying to climb the fences just just throw the switch and give them a good jolt.Theres nothing better then seeing a couple of hundred illegal immgrants running across the mexican desert about 3 in the morning with their hair on fire.
posted on January 6, 2005 07:11:14 PM new They should electrify the fences and when they see a bunch of these mutts trying to climb the fences just just throw the switch and give them a good jolt
classic: Here's what the dictionary has to say about the term "mutt".
mutt
n : an inferior dog or one of mixed breed [syn: cur, mongrel]
I'm curious about how you used the term. Would you mind elaborating? Thanks in advance.
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on January 6, 2005 07:34:19 PM newaka scumbags
So then, you didn't mean it in the same way. Thanks then!
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on January 7, 2005 05:35:40 AM new
First off, we need to make immigration into this country easier. While I don't agree with Bush's plan to allow them to work here and take the money home to Mexico, I think he's on the right track. Allowing the money to leave this country is not going to improve our economy at all. Most of these people have been here long enough to become citizens. They pick the damned fruit you guys are so eager to eat. They clean toilets and mop floors so you don't have to do it. And, they do it for pennies. I don't see what's so right about that.
I think they need to find a way that will allow them to work here legally. Whether those of you who would like to see them gone believe it or not, they are an integral part of our society and they are not going to go away. I have a lot less to fear from an illegal Mexican than I do from an illegal member of Al Qaeda making his way here.
I used to feel the same way many of you do. Then I had to ask myself, "What harm are they doing me?" - answer: NONE. Are they taking my job away? Are they eating my food? Are they living better than I? No, they're not.
Cheryl
"Success in almost any field depends more on energy and drive than it does on intelligence. This explains why we have so many stupid leaders."
-Sloan Wilson
posted on January 7, 2005 09:23:48 AM new
Cheryl "First off, we need to make immigration into this country easier"
NO, it's too easy NOW!
First, we should have conditions like other countries do....like learning to speak the language of the nation within a specific time frame!
Like learning the laws, culture, and custom of the country they now live in and get money from !
Learning that selling their daughters is against the law HERE !
Beating their wives may be their custom but HERE it's against the law !
Flying into this country is easy....learning to become a citizen should be required.
posted on January 7, 2005 01:00:35 PM new
Where do I stand? I'm against it. Period.
Illegals, when found, whould be immediately deported. And I'm getting sick of whines of "but, but, their children will suffer!" Not our problem--their parents are responsible for that, not us.
No driver's licenses for illegals.
No illegal offspring clogging up our schools.
No medical care, outside of emergency care (real emergencies) for illegals--and after emergency care is rendered, they should be deported. This is a big issue for me--they've foundered our health care in California.
No social services for illegals. Including food stamps.
No special waiting rooms (as they have in many place in California) for illegal day workers to wait in for potential hiring.
No amnesty for illegals.
No water stops set up for those attempting illegal entry.
Etc., etc. etc.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on January 7, 2005 01:14:35 PM new
Fenix, it was just a generalized question about all of it. The illegal aliens coming to the U.S. from Mexico has been a big deal for years. It sounds like there are laws in place that look after most issues but nobody implements them. I understand how immigrant workers are an asset to crop farmers but how are they assets to the U.S. in other ways?
posted on January 7, 2005 01:18:52 PM new
You will now probably hear the famopus rejoinder that "illegals do jobs Americans won't do themselves." Which is hogwash. The do jobs that were traditionally done by teens just entering the job market, college students and able-bodied adults who needed low-skill jobs.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on January 7, 2005 01:31:21 PM new
I have met the best and the worst of illegal immigrants. The current laws make them second class citizens that are, at times, cruelly taken advantage of. I find the present laws repugnant and feel that we should have a liberal (gack, choke, I actually used THAT word) visa policy for anyone with a job or a sponsoring employer. IMHO.
posted on January 7, 2005 01:41:57 PM newThe current laws make them second class citizens that are, at times, cruelly taken advantage of.
Citizens? They aren't citizens. They are ILLEGALLY IN THE COUNTRY.
Foreigners here legally to do jobs have Green Cards and are treated very will indeed. But then...they're here LEGALLY aren't they?
Illegal aliens don't go that route. They barge right on in & then expect to have the full rights of a citizen. Why in the world should we want to make things easy for illegals? If they don't like how they ae treated they should go back to where they came from.
At this point one usually hears "but the countries they come from have repressive governments & no jobs."
Well, then, they should do something about fixing up their own country. Rise up & overthrow that repressive government, etc. etc. etc. And make your own country worth living in. Especially those who come to the US & then expect everything to be just like it was "back home"--if they liked it so much there, stay there & make it want you want it to be! Or *gasp* come to America legally.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
posted on January 7, 2005 01:46:33 PM new
Well, being part Mexican myself & having a Mexican husband the posts are troubling me.
I understand both sides. Mexican people who want to work in the US should obtain the proper papers. The jobs that they have here in the US are low paying jobs (farm workers, house-cleaners etc). I'm sorry but I don't see any teenager or college student that would want to do farm labor. Being the child of a farmer I know first hand how hard that work is and most people will not do it. As for Mexican people wanting better for their families, that is no different than us. I don't know about you, but I want better for my children than I had.
Americans go to Mexico with our money and buy villas. These are not small houses or property by any means. Then we hire Mexican people to serve us, clean our house etc while we live in their country. US business also have factories in Mexico or contract with factories there. Many of our products are made in Mexico. The average factory worker is paid about $4.00 a day in US money. American benefit off of Mexico. We go to Mexico & buy goods, medicines, etc. When a Mexican worker is sending US money back to Mexico to his family, they are not living like kings by any means. One man may be here working for his entire family, not just his immediate family.
I really see no difference in Mexican people coming here to the US to earn a living than Americans going to Mexico to live or vacation like royalty.
[ edited by thetrinityboutique on Jan 7, 2005 01:50 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2005 02:23:53 PM new
::I understand how immigrant workers are an asset to crop farmers but how are they assets to the U.S. in other ways?::
It's not just crop farmers Krafty. Hell, the building industry (you know the one that is used as one of our major economic indicaters) would collapse if not for illegals. No major builder in this country has actual crews, they contract out all of their labor and the vast majority of those contract laborers are illegals.
The illegals are much less expensive to employ which keeps overall housing costs down (yeah - I know - that's a relative term but just think how much more the house would cost if everyone involved in the building process were paid twice as much with all employment taxes and the like attached). Lower housing costs means more sales and then you get the increased sales of all of those wonderful little things that go into homes which means increased or at least steady employment numbers in the retail industry that deal with home furnishings and improvement sundries and so on and such like. It is a domino effect. People talk about farm labor but what happens when produce prices triple? Sales drop, employment in produce industries drop which mean that the surrounding communities lose the cash infusion, employment taxes, etc.
Bunni - How many teens entering the job market do you know of that want to be framing houses in the midwest all winter? Sorry but it's not hogwash. It's the thuth of our society today. If you don't believe me, ask the manager of your local McDonalds how many caucasian job applicants they get each week.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on January 7, 2005 03:39:49 PM new
I use the term citizen in it's most open interpretation. You can be a citizen without having a franchise.
cit·i·zen (st-zn)
n.
1. A person owing loyalty to and entitled by birth or naturalization to the protection of a state or nation.
2. A resident of a city or town, especially one entitled to vote and enjoy other privileges there.
3. A civilian.
4. A native, inhabitant, or denizen of a particular place: “We have learned to be citizens of the world, members of the human community” (Franklin D. Roosevelt).
fran·chise (frnchz)
n.
1. A privilege or right officially granted a person or a group by a government, especially:
1. The constitutional or statutory right to vote.
2. The establishment of a corporation's existence.
3. The granting of certain rights and powers to a corporation.
4. Legal immunity from servitude, certain burdens, or other restrictions.
2.
1. Authorization granted to someone to sell or distribute a company's goods or services in a certain area.
2. A business or group of businesses established or operated under such authorization.
3. The territory or limits within which immunity, a privilege, or a right may be exercised.
4. A professional sports team.
posted on January 7, 2005 07:02:10 PM newI really see no difference in Mexican people coming here to the US to earn a living than Americans going to Mexico to live or vacation like royalty.
The Americans who retire to Mexico (& they certainly don't number in the millions) or who vacation there do not sponge off the country's social services, do not expect free medical treatment, do not overburden the schools. In fact, they provide income to Mexicans by hiring them, buying their goods, and using their services. Oh, yes--and they are there legally. BTW, unless things have changed recently many of those evil Americans retiring to Mexico can only lease their homes because the Mexican government *gasp* doesn't allow foreigners to own property in many areas of Mexico. Hey--why didn't we think of that?
The American factories built in Mexico employ Mexicans, thereby also contributing to that country's economy--they don't hire workers coming up from South America who are willing to work for far less than the Mexicans themselves, do they? Oh yeah--and they are there legally.
Americans going to Mexico to buy drugs are also helping that country's economy but infusing much needed money into it. And those that aren't coming from border areas might have to stay in local motels before starting back--again helping the area's economy by spending money on htel rooms, food, tipping maids, etc. etc. etc.
Yep--I see a lot of difference between illegal aliens here and American tourists & retirees there.
____________________
"Bad temper is its own scourge. Few things are more bitter than to feel bitter. A man's venom poisons himself more than his victim." --Charles Buxton
[ edited by bunnicula on Jan 7, 2005 07:25 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2005 07:44:51 PM new
I also agree with everything bunni has stated. She's 'right' on about all the problems illegals create for our own taxpayers.
Want them to have jobs in the fields and the building industry? Fine....do it legally. They'd still work for the same wages they do now.
Last night on Fox News, someone [I don't remember whose program it was on] but the Governor of Arizona was on showing an "Official", Mexican govenment sponsored book on how to enter the US illegally. Tips from their government on how to be successful at getting into our country illegally. WHY? Because the money sent home by both the illegals and legals are a major [1/3] part of their governments econony. The Mexican government/economy would be in deep do-do if that flow of US dollars suddenly stopped by a change in our immigration laws....that's why.
And recently there was a Muslin man who tried to cross illegally. They said he spoke Spanish and had lived there for a number of years. See how easy it is when our borders aren't protected?
But once again, neither party appears to be willing to totally do what it takes to really tighten these borders up.
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Four More Years....YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Jan 7, 2005 07:48 PM ]
posted on January 7, 2005 07:50:39 PM new
I know alot of people who scrubbed toilets, worked as farm hands, framed buildings during the winter months and picked up potatoes for money. Between my husband, myself and my daughter while in college, we have done all of these jobs. You'd be surprised what Americans will do if they need the money. Have you ever baled hay? Not fun, I assure you. We have alot of "poor" here, alot of unemployed and alot on welfare as a career choice. These are the unskilled laborers that can do the jobs illegals do.
BTW, if someone isn't willing to pay minimum wage to have their toilet scrubbed, they can do it themselves or teach their children they have to work for their allowance.
posted on January 7, 2005 07:53:50 PM newAnd recently there was a Muslin man who tried to cross illegally.
I would imagine a man made of muslin would slip through the fence quite easily.
They said he spoke Spanish and had lived there for a number of years. See how easy it is when our borders aren't protected?
I thought we were protected..What happened to the multi-bazillion dollar Dept. of Homeland Security And Everything Else ??? Did they decide we didn't need it?? All this time since 9/11 I thought the President was protecting us , and that's why we hadn't been attacked again!!!..boy, I'm pissed now....
____________________________________________
Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on January 7, 2005 08:00:30 PM new
Yes, profe, all those clinton supporters sure were fighting to tighten up our borders weren't they? Not.
Our borders ARE more protected than they've ever been since 9-11. This President has made GREAT strides in this area. There's just too many, just like we see here, that don't agree with locking them down even tighter. Like putting the military [Guards] on foot patrol. Too many who are more concerned about them having drinking water and being cottled while they enter illegally....like Liberals.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
