posted on August 31, 2000 12:51:39 PM new
I feel like this:
If a seller says "$5.00 shipping" in his auction, then that's what you pay. Either you agree to it or your don't. If you need it broken down into "$3.20 postage, 35¢ DC, 85¢ insurance, 60¢ handling" then ASK THEM BEFORE YOU BID to break it down.
If you don't ask specific questions that "could" get you ticked off once you receive them item, then you have no reason to complain after the fact.
Agree to the terms, understand the terms, or don't bid.
posted on August 31, 2000 12:56:37 PM new
Personally, as a long-time seller and a long-time buyer, I would consider a high shipping charge to be price-gouging even if it was listed clearly in the terms.
Simply because it is stated in a seller's personal version of the Ten Commandments does not make it gospel or right.
Far too many sellers nowadays think they are Moses...or try to place themselves a little higher on the mountain.
posted on August 31, 2000 12:57:54 PM new
Like it or not, Treuser has a point. Whether you like it or not, that time is money. When you spend time sitting in a PO line, you've lost the opportunity to do something else. Is it really ridiculous to charge for one's time?
<<Even if a seller doesn't want to deal with me (for whatever reason), they should still offer me the courtesy of a reply ...>>
Yes, I agree with you completely.
TheRedCircle
<<Simply because it is stated in a seller's personal version of the Ten Commandments does not make it gospel or right. >>
No, but it is their's.
A seller's TOS is shaped and refined to work for them. If you don't like their TOS, just pass their auctions up. If their TOS is so out-of-this world then they will not sell and hopefully get the message.
posted on August 31, 2000 01:56:05 PM new
Jakemelon: Had his auction page read Shipping AND HANDLING, there would be no problem because there would have been no bid. His TOS read Shipping Cost. When, in actuality, he is charging more than the shipping cost.
posted on August 31, 2000 02:25:40 PM new
Barrelracer - You are the kind of person who sees each seller as an individual and that is an honorable trait. I am a seller also on e-bay and try to look at each seller as an individual as well. But we must remember we are dealing with the masses and it's no different than if someone has a bad experience with a dentist to dislike all dentists; or a lawyer (we all know what a bad reputation that group has); or the IRS (maybe not the best example!), etc. Word of mouth is a powerful tool and when these types of stories get out there, I do feel they hurt all of the sellers on internet auction sites. There is that old saying: ''one bad apple...''
I might also add that being a seller, I know and understand the importance of good customer service and repeat business. If I received an e-mail after an auction closed such as the one I sent to this seller, I would have been more than happy to work with that person. I look at every opportunity to have a one-on-one relationship with a buyer an investment in future sales. It would have taken me no more than a few minutes of my time and if I'm in a business (which, technically this is) it is nothing more than common business sense to do so. This seller is either young, arrogant or out of touch with reality. In any event, he'll get no repeat business from me.
One more thing... I wanted to bid on a auction not too long ago for a book that was quite heavy. The TOS was priority mail and I knew that would be high, so I e-mailed the seller prior to auction's end and asked if she might consider mailing it standard book rate to save me some $. She was more than happy to do so as long as I didn't mind paying an extra $1 for her time to go to the post office. I was very agreeable to spend $1 to save $6. When the auction ended, I even copied the USPS fees and e-mailed them to her to save her some time. We have since bid on and won each other's auctions.
Granted, in this example, the seller was contacted prior to the end of the auction - so what??? Is there some magical, mystical time warp thing that happens on the exact moment that the auction ends??? If I had overlooked the TOS in her auction and was billed for the priority fees, I probably would have done the exact same thing and she probably would have complied in the exact same way. And if she hadn't, I would have paid her priority fees - the only difference is that it would have been the last time I bid on her auctions.
<<Granted, in this example, the seller was contacted prior to the end of the auction - so what??? Is there some magical, mystical time warp thing that happens on the exact moment that the auction ends??? >>
To me, as a seller, yes there is. If you are a winner at auction end, then the obligation factor comes in to play. (Feedback, FVF etc.) It now becomes a transaction.
posted on August 31, 2000 02:30:44 PM new
Should the U.S. start a war everytime Iraq burns one of our flags? Yea, it's the principle of the matter, right!
See, in the market place, sellers charge whatever the market will bare, and whatever the buyers perceive as value. For some reason you don't perceive this seller offering any additional value. When buyers tell me this, I say alright, you win! I will ship the item as is without a box or packaging, or they can just pick the item up at my house. Next time consider that your item is being shipped to our door, and arrives in good condition. That is the value! Quit whining!
In an expensive restauarant how do you handle the tipping? Do you think a $15 tip is too much on a $100 bill, for providing the same service as a Denny's which the bill is $15, and a tip at $1.50. Perception of value is all it is! Don't start a war over some stupid principle.
posted on August 31, 2000 02:31:00 PM new
trueuser: you stated, ''Put yourself in the seller's shows, would stand in line for at least 10-15 minutes to ship a 3.00 item without some incentive?''
He had about 30 auctions close on the same day; he wasn't standing in line for my one little $3 item. He is making as much of a profit on his shipping costs as he is on his items and he's not being clear that he charges a handling fee. As far as the incentive... repeat business is a good enough incentive for me, even if it were one little $3 item!
posted on August 31, 2000 02:40:24 PM new
I think sometimes a bidder gets too hung up on the "Oh my gosh I'm paying a handling fee! "
The auction did state $4.20 shipping. So that should have been added to your final amount you wished to pay for this item, and you should have gone on from there.
I don't have any problem with his $4.20 shipping, it was stated in the auction it is the amounts for insurance and tracking that I think are fee avoidance and overcharge.
edited to add: and the insurance amounts and tracking amount was not in the auction ad, for a bidder to evaluate.
[ edited by barrelracer on Aug 31, 2000 02:43 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2000 02:50:41 PM new
Barrelracer: You stated, ...''it becomes a transaction.'' I agree with you in a situation such as bidder's remorse. That is not the case here. A transaction with a buyer is an opportunity to build a rapport with an individual that can turn into a lifetime of transactions. Because this seller is refusing to cut me a $2 break he's losing the potential to possibly earn hundreds of dollars of my future business. (He sold many items higher than $3 and my son does have a yearly birthday, Christmas, etc.)
You said yourself that you see each seller and buyer as an individual; do you agree, therefore, that it is only fair to view each transaction in much the same way?
posted on August 31, 2000 02:59:22 PM newI recently allowed my son to bid on some game cartridges with his allowance money(under my close supervision, of course) and he won one for around $3.00. I received the EOA e-mail promptly from the seller advising the priority shipping (no mention of handling) would be $4.20 with an optional $2 for insurance and $1 for package tracking.
Maybe they're not answering you because it says that the insurance charges and tracking are optional. If you don't want those things, just send payment of $4.20 shipping.
posted on August 31, 2000 03:02:46 PM new
Quickdraw: No war here; just a person who thought she was paying shipping for a 2-3 pound item and found out (by the obvious profit being made on the insurance and tracking fees) that she was being asked to pay more than a shipping charge as stated in the TOS who politely asked the seller if he might consider an exception due to her assumption. That's all -- nothing more, nothing less.
I call it a polite request from one individual to another; the originator of which was perfectly willing to honor the answer she was given - no matter what it was. All she wants at this point is a reply of any kind!
Oh, and by the way, I tip 20% no matter where I eat.
posted on August 31, 2000 03:13:07 PM newThe auction page stated simply: Shipping for this item is $4.20.
Then that ends it. A seller who then tries to add more is being unscrupulous, and should meet refusal.
I also agree with some others, if it had said "Shipping for this item is $35.00, I expect to be paid for standing in line", that would be legitimate too. Because you can see exactly what's being charged.
posted on August 31, 2000 03:47:55 PM new
sharenv,
No, I think we diagree on a transaction. (Which is fine, this is for sharing views and discussing, right? )
You said:
<<A transaction with a buyer is an opportunity to build a rapport with an individual that can turn into a lifetime of transactions. >>
When I say I treat every transaction seperately, I meant if I have a difficult time with one bidder or seller, I do not lump all bidders or sellers together.
I do not understand how you are defining "building a rapport".
If you are saying, and I say "if" , that a winning bidder should be allowed to negotiate terms after an aution is over to have " a long relationship" , I have to say I really don't want that. My TOS works for me, and it would be too costly time wise to have to play "let's make a deal" after a transaction.
I would define it as promptly and courteously e mailing a winning bidder, acknowledging their answers, letting them know when payment arrives and shipping their carefully packaged item promptly. And leaving appropriate feed back.
As a bidder, I try to ask any questions before I bid, and I do not haggle with a seller, unless the item was not as described. I really hope my bidders do the same for me.
And it does work, I have been selling for almost 2 years on ebay now, quite successfully.
posted on August 31, 2000 03:54:27 PM new
sharenv
I am getting confused by what actually bothers you.
You stated it was paying $4.20 for shipping for what could go for $3.20, then just now
<<just a person who thought she was paying shipping for a 2-3 pound item and found out (by the obvious profit being made on the insurance and tracking fees) that she was being asked to pay more than a shipping charge as stated in the TOS who politely asked the seller if he might consider an exception due to her assumption. That's all -- nothing more, nothing less.>>
To me you aren't being asked to pay more than the stated shipping charge $4.20.
Are you upset about the profit on the stated shipping charge, or the insurance and tracking charge or both?
From all the posts it sounds like both, but now I am not sure.
edited for spelling
[ edited by barrelracer on Aug 31, 2000 03:57 PM ]
posted on August 31, 2000 04:55:45 PM newIn this case, I don't feel the seller tried to add more. He did say "optional" .
What do you think?
I think your implication is right, barrelracer. If it was stated to be $4.20, and seller was willing to ship it Priority for $4.20, then seller was not wrong.
I'm not sure what to make of an offer to buy insurance for $2.00 and DC for $1.00 on a $3.00 item, but it summarizes to a less than positive reaction.
sg52
posted on August 31, 2000 05:50:19 PM new
Barrelracer: I'll try to make it clearer. I did see that the shipping cost was $4.20. And I reiterate, it stated, ''cost to ship.'' I assumed that meant the item weighed between 2-3 pounds and I was paying the priority mail ''cost'' to ship the item. It wasn't until I read his EOA e-mail and saw he was overcharging for the insurance and tracking, that I asked my son what the item might weigh (I have no idea about these things). He went and got one that he already owns and it was not more than 2 lbs. That was when I realized we were being charged more than the ''cost to ship'' as stated in his TOS.
It then sort of snowballed into something more when after 6 e-mails I could not get any kind of reply from the seller to my polite request to consider charging me ''just'' the shipping charge.
So, I guess you could say, at first I was upset that I was mislead with his vague TOS; and that ended up being secondary to the fact that he refuses to communicate with me.
I might add a footnote here... One of the other buyers from his auction provided me with a different e-mail address for this seller and I sent him e-mail #7 from my other e-mail address. That was about 4 hours ago (11 a.m. Hawaii time) and (you guessed it!) still no reply.
posted on August 31, 2000 06:13:32 PM new
Barrelracer: When I say ''building a rapport'' I simply mean that a little compromise once in a while can go a long way to winning the trust of someone and greatly increase the chances of them becoming a repeat buyer. I guess it depends of the types of items you sell, mine are the kind that you would repeat buy.
I, also, am not out to build any long-term relationships with buyers other than that of the professional kind where they buy and pay and in return, I pack and ship. I have a very full life of a demanding full-time job, 4 kids, etc., etc. But, when I commit to do something, I want to do it well, and if that means providing customer service by way of a compromise now and then, I do it.
Also, please don't misunderstand, I was not trying to play ''let's make a deal'' with this particular seller. I honestly felt he misprepresented his TOS and I was asking him to ''consider'' charging shipping cost only. For all I knew, this seller may not have realized that he was being misleading to some people (I later learned of two other buyers who were also questioning his charges) and, who knows, maybe in some way I could be helping this relatively new seller (approx 80 feedback) - while I fully admit this was not my intention, rather an afterthought.
I was not asking him to sell me the item for less than my high bid; I was not asking him to take a loss on shipping the item to me; I was simply asking him to charge me what I interpreted his TOS to be... shipping cost. Am I wrong to interpret ''cost'' to be the actual amount of money paid to mail the item as opposed to the amount of money I am being charged to mail the item, regardless of what the seller is paying? If I am, I stand corrected. All he has to say was one word, NO, and he'll have his full payment within minutes. His refusal to reply is making me more nervous than his price gouging!
posted on August 31, 2000 06:32:51 PM new''Put yourself in the seller's shows, would stand in line for at least 10-15 minutes to ship a 3.00 item without some incentive?'' ....
That comes with the territory! That's part of the JOB he chooses to do, part of the service he chooses to offer...No one is forcing that seller to sell ONLINE...Any business has a certain amount of responsibilities which comes attached to the job description...Going to POST OFFICE happens to be what one does when one SELLS ONLINE....
posted on August 31, 2000 06:39:44 PM new
About two years ago, I sold a rather expensive piece of Nippon to a Japanese Lady. Nearly 2 grands...Shipping quoted by Postal Clerk was to be $81.00. Customer paid...When I actually took package back to ship, clerk saw she had made a 9.75 error, in customer's favor. I sent the Lady an Email of apology, then mailed her a 10.00 bill the next morning. We stayed in touch for months after that... The point being: honesty is one of the most important ingredients in being a sales person...Wonder what the particular seller being discussed would have done...
posted on August 31, 2000 06:47:12 PM new
The seller's charge of $4.20 to ship by priority mail is not outrageous. What's outrageous is the complaining over A LOUSY DOLLAR handling fee.
Delivery confirmation, USPS insurance and international shipping all require the seller to stand in line at the post office. At my post office, the wait is usually 20 minutes. Do you seriously expect a seller to stand in line for 20 minutes just to insure your $3 toy?
I'm not surprised by buyers who wish to get products via eBay at below-wholesale prices. I am surprised by the vehemence I see over a dollar handling fee. Fee avoidance? Hey, go buy your item for retail and then compare the cost. You do the math.
posted on August 31, 2000 07:00:17 PM new
Shoshana, "that's the seller's job" is your description, not necessarily everyone's. And I suspect there was a huge difference in the profit you made on your $2,000 china and this $3 kid's toy.
You know, depending on what you sell, it's a little hard to stretch that $5 profit on a CD or toy or other cheap item. I just finished sending out 45 NPB alerts and credit requests, and now I'm getting emails from customers asking me to resend the invoices. Including all the look-ups, it's taken several hours. Who pays for that? Yes, that's part of my job. Which is exactly why I charge a "handling" fee. Bookeeping is by far the most time-consuming part of the job, and my time is worth it.
Considering the profit I make off my items (I make it up in volume), the last thing I need is some customer emailing me a dozen times to argue about a $1 handling fee. Better the customer should bid on someone else's auctions. I think my feedback rating of 3100 demonstrates that MOST customers are very satisfied.
posted on August 31, 2000 07:05:44 PM new
Shosh, I made my post without realizing there was a second page to this thread. Anway, to paraphrase your comment, no on is forcing you to buy online.
I think the real issue is disclosure of the shipping fees. If the fees are stated in the ad, there's not much use in griping about it.
And I would never pay fees that were tacked on after the auction. (In this case, insurance and delivery confirmation were optional. Tho' I wonder why a customer would pay extra for DC? As if they don't know when the package arrives.)
posted on August 31, 2000 07:05:54 PM new
Yes, there IS a big difference. agreed..But again, that is the seller's CHOICE what he sells....Matches are inexpensive..they are plentiful and cost little....Should one now start paying say, 10.00 for a book of matches?
******************** Shosh http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
posted on August 31, 2000 07:11:14 PM new
And I have also stood in long lines for a 10.00 item...Ihe cost of shipping, as SET by seller, should have nothing to do with price seller got...Maybe he sells with no reserve...who knows...again: HIS CHOICE.
I restore pottery...whether is is a dime-store piece or a 5,000 weller, a break is a break is a break...I do not, cannot, will NOT charge more because item is expensive! or less because item is cheap...A set price should be just that: a SET price...If I under-estimate? MY problem...
******************** Shosh http://www.oldandsold.com/cgi-bin/auction.cgi?justdisp&Rifkah
