You've changed, grievously, though not without some appeal. You used to be SUCH a busybody.
But easygoing as you claim to now be as regards other's conduct of their ebay activities, you are not immune from the stigma cast upon all ebay sellers by the nefarious activities of those here under discussion. You say that if THEIR customers are unhappy they will not return; I say that if their customers are not happy they will not return TO EBAY, and that means to you, oh ex-Pom-Pom Girl Extraordinaire.
posted on September 2, 2000 12:35:48 AM new
amy - Your theory is a little off but you didn't have anyway of knowing that networker is an ASA, CPA, EA with an MBA from Kellogg. Not to mention I have both my CPCU and ARM designations from the insurance institute.
I'll break those down for you two you should know..
ASA - Associate Society of Actuaries
CPA - Certified Public Accountant Registered in three states CA, IL, NY,
EA - Enrolled Agent [i] a designation from the IRS which allows me to represent people in Tax Court and address all tax matters both corporate and personal.
MBA - Masters Business Administration, Concentration Finance and Investment Management.
CPCU - Chartered Property and Casualty Underwriter for pricing and addessing all insurance concerns
ARM - Associates In Risk Management, means I am supposed to know how to use insurance and investment products to fund and finance risk. Sounded like a nice designation to have when I took the courses. Although to be honest haven't used it that much.
And just so you know all monies entering a business is Gross Revenue, Income is what is left from Revenue after Expenses. But thanks for the ebay seller accounting lesson. Also we call it Schedule C not Form C.
It was refreshing to discover that some ebay sellers actually keep books. You seem to have a pretty good grasp of the back end as well as the front end of your ebay operation. Now hopefully you are creating balance sheets, Income statements and Owners Equity statements. Now which inventory valuation method are you using FiFo, LiFo, or Weighted Average Method.
posted on September 2, 2000 12:43:54 AM new
Ken...i am STILL a busybody..here at AW, when I am giving my OPINION.
But I will not, and never have (as far as I can remember) interferred in another's rights to conduct their business (and life) as they desire. NOW..let them ask my opinion, or come on a public board and open their business and personal practices for other to comment on and this old busybody will probably open her mouth!!
As for you response about "stigma" and possibility that buyers won't return...I just knew that was going to be your response!
Yes, there is that possibility..oh, hell, it WILL happen. But, can it be stopped? No!
My opinion is that most attempts to stop it are doomed to failure on serveral fronts. One, since we don't know for sure what other's motivations are...are they really "nefarious" for example...then we may be working under false assumtions. Two, in most cases, the solutions that may be considered will frequently cause even more problems than they cure.
Take Borillar's suggestion of every seller being forced to state up front whether the shipping is "exact postage", "postage and handling" "postage, handling and materials" and then having to give a $ amount for shipping in the ad. Someone already pointed out that this would cause problems for international sales for one example.
Plus, ethics are not a black and white situation. What is ethical to you may not be ethical to me.
The real cheats are always with us..we can't regulate them away..we can't stop them. So the best solution is for the rest of us to conduct ourselves in an honorable manner. Since I do believe most people act honorably I'm not to worried that the few real crooks on ebay will do much damage to the rest of us. Mainly because I also think most people are reasonable enough not to tar all sellers with the misdeeds of a few.
But let someone come on AW and tell us about his actions that I think are reprehensible and I WILL make some pretty strong statements to them about how I percieve their behavior.
Edited to remove an example that was not necessary..and a sincere apology to Krs
[ edited by amy on Sep 2, 2000 02:12 AM ]
[ edited by amy on Sep 2, 2000 02:13 AM ]
posted on September 2, 2000 01:02:06 AM new
Braxton..I'm not impressed with your string of "titles"..nor am I impressed that you decided to nitpick my use of the term "income" rather than "revenue" or "form" instead of "schedule".
Actually, I'm having a time trying to figure out what relevance you purported "experience" in actuaries and insurance have to do with selling on ebay (although I am SURE you will tell me!).
As for the rest of it...so what?
I read your posts and I do have to admit they bring to mind a saying I have heard (correct me KRS if I misquote it)...All sound and fury, signifying nothing.
posted on September 2, 2000 01:08:34 AM new
Networker, failure to honor the seller's TOS as stated in the ad is a violation of eBay policy. I can tell you it is a suspendable offense, and hopefully anyone reading this thread will know better than to follow your advice. You just don't get it. A handling fee is just that. Not a miscalculation of postage. Not how many minutes standing in line divided by how many packages. Not how many peanuts fit in a priority mail video box. Just that: a handling fee.
It's great that you have an MBA but you really don't understand eBay at all. The garage sale atmosphere is what built eBay into a billion-dollar business. The MBAs and others that came later are responsible for driving eBay financially into the ground. Your two hundred sales (I do a hundred sales a week) at eBay do not qualify you as an expert. Perhaps it's time to stop calling successful sellers "crooks" and be quiet and learn something.
posted on September 2, 2000 01:31:41 AM new
Amy - I don't get it you theorize I am ignorant to accounting. I point out my background and then correct your misuse of terms and improper naming of schedules and I become the bad guy. Geesh you ebay sellers take the cake.
I'll part with this one, ebay sellers make the tarring and grouping of them into one large group very feasible when they run to defend the bad practices of their comrades. Ever heard that saying;" one bad apple spoils the whole barrel"? I actually hate that rotten sellers ruin the medium for the good ones. I hate it even more when the so-called good ones run to defend the terrible business practices of the bad ones just because sellers are taking a bad rap. It gets worse when those same so-called good ones then say things like and I quote [b]"As for you response about "stigma" and possibility that buyers won't return...I just knew that was going to be your response!
Yes, there is that possibility..oh, hell, it WILL happen. But, can it be stopped? No! "[/b]
What makes you think sellers policing their own ranks won't deter the bad ones from ruining the gold mine for the rest?. In this world you will stand for something or fall for anything. Which by the way your attitude about the medium possibly being destroyed by the rotten sellers shows something else about ebay sellers that is not part of sound commonly accepted business thinking. Ebay sellers seem to have this complete willingness to refuse to accept that the busness environment of ebay is their's to control. Instead they are too busy trying to control individual customers with TOS's to see the big picture.
Calling Meg Whitman, calling Meg Whitman please hurry up and implement measures to cleanout the garage sale mentality sellers so this medium can realize its maximum potential for those with enough vision to see it. The longer you let them linger the more they will multiply like roaches.
posted on September 2, 2000 02:36:10 AM new
You know Braxton, there are actually two barrels of apples in the ebay warehouse. One is labeled sellers and the other is labeled Buyers.
There are rotten apples in both barrels. In the buyers barrel are apples who rationalize ignoring up front shipping costs with "the seller probably made a mistake" or "the seller doesn't know the true facts about shipping costs" or "the seller will agree to change his TOS once I win because they will see how much I spend on ebay and won't want to lose my money". So those rotten apples bid, knowing the seller's TOS are unacceptable to them but figue they can bully the seller into changing the rules for them.
And it is those rotten apple buyers who spoil it for the good buyers...the sellers who have been served up the rotten apple buyer gets cautious next time and makes his TOS harsh and demanding to protect himself from being served another rotten apple buyer. and the poor good apple buyers are tarred with the same brush.
posted on September 2, 2000 05:21:23 AM new
I charge a standard 'approx.' US$10 above actual postage cost on all my items, but I don't actually spell it out as I'm about to, I just tell'em that 'some' of the money goes toward handling. Is that being deceitful?
I say aprox. because I often over charge a little because I go up the next weight bracket in my calculation if I think it's marginal.
I can estimate the postage before I pack because I use several sizes of standard boxes.
That money is partly for packing materials and, just in case you think it's fee avoidance let me tell you I pay my grandma to pack the boxes {.{I don't pocket the money}.} But I make her work very hard for your packing dollar.
She has used as much as US$1.00+ on packing tape alone (1 porcelain tea set)
Rigid foam boxes cost US$1.80 - US$3.00 each. Bubble wrap US$0.50 - $1.00
Thin particle/ mdf/ chip board cladding on foam box US$0.60
Phone call to customs sometimes avg./item US$0.03 - $0.04
Fax to customs nearly every time US$0.11
All wrapped up in thick brown paper because my customers are important to me and I like to demonstrate it to them. US$0.15.
No charge for genuine epson ink to print out label with name, no charge for 'fragile' stickers. No mention of biros, disposable blades for cutting, petrol to post office or phone call for credit card authorisation etc.
MUST I spell it all out. Is that being deceitful?
That means that my poor old grandma gets to work for under US$4.00 per hour for her packing because I charge her a little rental for the corner she uses in our laundry to do her thing in. But don't worry I'm not too soft on her just because we're related, I make her throw in delivery to the post office in her own time in my car. She gets to drop off 2 at a time, it's easy on her and besides she says she doesn't mind because she loves me…It's not like I'm ripping her off..
I don't tell the customers that my Granny is getting some of the money. Is that being deceitful? You see I think some of them get upset when they know the post office isn't getting to keep all the money.
It's not a wonder the small business person is being driven out by larger companies. Some people and it seems most, will stand in cue at the large department store, bank, large post office, and grin and bear it but when you try and let your grandma earn a whopping US4.00 per hour !#$%^&*.
If you feel your that right kind of person, can arrange all of that in any quicker time than my grandma & are prepared to work for just a little less, let me know.
......................
I have been so snowed under by work lately that I have asked my grandma, at no extra charge, to fill in the 2 page customs export clearance application and fax it to customs.
I charge her next to nothing for rent, and she doesn't even appreciate the ALMOST US$4.00 per hour I'm paying her. It's not quite $4.00 because I charge her a nominal amount for electricity she uses in the laundry. I should make her use a 25W light but she reckons it's too dark in there, personally I find it romantic working by the ample moonlight which comes in through the large window.
Can you believe the ungrateful old b%^&# is complaining that an extra 10 minutes of her life is being waisted. For all the money I pay her you'd think she could throw in a little effort to fill in a customs form.
Every time I get my Porsche serviced, the dealer throws in delivery and even picks me up and drops me off
And that's got nothing to do with the money I spend, it's the principle.
Without prejudice,
Not Costa on eBay
posted on September 2, 2000 06:03:57 AM newThe MBAs and others that came later are responsible for driving eBay financially into the ground
Idiotic statement, considering Pierre's MBA.
Amy,
First, nice use of the apple barrel analogy, it's stood in good faith for you so many times.
But 'good' and 'bad' are as black and white, and I don't believe that anyone is addressing the problem of truly bad sellers, other than you. Those types mostly go away from adverse action with an occasional exception who just keep piling up negs. It's the little petty cheats, the small sellers of relatively inconsequential items who tack on a nickel and find that they get away with it, so tack on another, until they're so used to such cheating that they lose whatever care for customers they ever might have had and with complete and confident disdain for the simple good sense of a buyer parting with his or her own money, take larger and larger bites in order to attempt to survive and continue in their lazy pursuit of a life of doing nothing of worth at all who are being addressed here.
Those so reliant on some silly TOS, and in their great brotherhood of crooks justify all of their petty activities by pointing to others of them who do the same things and saying that it all is quite 'businesslike'and 'my time is worth that' when if push were to come to shove very few of them could run a lemonade stand if they were required to make the product, and in point of fact, coming out of their mooching reliance on faked disabilities and tawdry manipulations of this and that welfare agency their time is really worth nothing at all, except to them since those mighty efforts spent composing their tosses and sending out emails curtails their abilities to wallow in the sloth that they prefer.
posted on September 2, 2000 07:04:28 AM newsharenv, To answer your question a few pages back as to what kind of feedback to leave, of course wait until the game arrives and your son has played it to make sure it works and then IMO, leave a factual neutral. Something along the lines of "Charged $4.20 prior.ship, EOA notice added $2.00 for ins, $1.00 for DC. Item worth $xxx.
You haven't said anything the seller can argue with and at the same time you alert other buyers to the seller's business practices.
posted on September 2, 2000 08:22:27 AM new
KRS - Bravo and well said about those crooks and the crooks that support their actions. These sellers act like cops, even though they know some of their ranks are crooked they all hide behind that Thin Blue Wall. In this case we'll call the Thin TOS Wall.
Amy - never said I ignore ignorant TOS terms. I read them and assume it is a mistake or typo look over at the number pad on your key board. $8.95 to ship a video tape priority mail, oh he/she meant to hit the 5 key as opposed to 8 the key. And if he didn't if he can justify it I'll pay it if he can't I won't. $6.95 for your ordinary post card and that's not priority, oh yeah he meant to hit the 3 key. $9.95 to ship a plain ordinary barbis with minimum insurance of yeah he meant to hit the 6 key. See where this is going and go and look at some of the auctions. You will notice that the shipping crooks often pad by the key up on the key board when they do it. So all those crook know full wll what they are doing and when caught on it they 100% of the time back down and accept the fair shipping.
ITS an ARROGANT seller that thinks my TOS my terms accept them or I won't sell even if I am wrong tha would sit back try to argue what in essence is wrong.
Stop being blind to the outright Fraud going on by your buddies heck it almost makes you an accessory after the fact.
posted on September 2, 2000 08:56:12 AM new
network67
<<ITS an ARROGANT seller that thinks my TOS my terms accept them or I won't sell even if I am wrong that would sit back try to argue what in essence is wrong>>
You are being a little to general in your attacks.
Please define what you mean by "even if I am wrong" and "what in essence is wrong".
A seller to me is wrong if the description is purposely misleading, he does not intend to ship, or changes his TOS after the sale.
"What in essence is wrong",
to me is an opionion. What is your "essence" of being wrong?
And why are you no longer selling on ebay?
posted on September 2, 2000 10:39:52 AM new
KRS...I can't believe you did not relaize I was addressing Networker's overblown statement about bad apples with an equally overblown analogy. (by the way..when have I used the bad apple in a barrel analogy before? not my normal type of reply )
As for the rest of it...you must be talking with tongue in cheek. if not, I can only conclude you and Networker are one and the same person...your both spouting nonsense. Adding a nickle more to the profit side is being a crook! ROFLMAO!!!
posted on September 2, 2000 11:13:46 AM new
In this particular case, if you're not comfortable with the transaction, don't leave any feedback.
I can't see where it's justified to leave a neg or neutral when the added charges were optional. That's the key word here.
If the seller tacked on these charges after the fact and told you that you must pay them before the item will be shipped, then you could justify a neg or neutral feedback.
posted on September 2, 2000 11:22:38 AM newAdding a nickle more to the profit side is being a crook!
Oh Dear Amy! Have I lost you forever? A metaphorical nickle which represents the candy bar your child might pilfer while accompanying you to the store. It warrants a scolding as it portends possible future misdeeds of more serious magnitude may ensue without one.
Are you now to be stripped of your pom-poms so that you may join with the sneaking night creatures who lurk about in search of lost sense$?
Where is the morally upright Amy of old? So jaded now? Behest of principle and accepting of all frailty?
posted on September 2, 2000 11:40:49 AM new
Krs...I let slip my new cheese sauce I am going to market on ebay? Oh blast!! How could I be so careless!
And how dare you, sir, insinuate my children pilferred candy bars when they were tots!! Why, they would have been fingerless if they had done so!
As for the pom poms..why the gentle nudging I got from you, among others, has convinced me that I was to moral, to ethiical. for this board. So I got hip (or was that hippier from sitting at this computer so much?) and got off my high horse in order to mingle with the rest of you at a more realistic level
posted on September 2, 2000 12:19:15 PM new
Wow! And I thought that I'd surely never see the day!
I was to moral, to ethiical. for this board. So I got hip (or was that hippier from sitting at this computer so much?) and got off my high horse in order to mingle with the rest of you.
Amy, aside your hipponess, you're becoming perfection personified, and would be, no doubt, if you could only spell.
posted on September 2, 2000 04:16:34 PM new
Why Ken, I am able to spell just fine...but WHAT would you do if you weren't able to spellcheck my posts? I give you excitement in your dull life...I let you think you are superior! My posts are constucted so you are given the joy of saying "gotcha..there's another misspelled word!"
posted on September 2, 2000 05:59:12 PM new
Ah, the woman as devil. To tell the truth, I take no joy in it at all, but rather felt that misspelling would grate on you. Now knowing that it was all done with deliberation for my sake, I can tell you that there is no need, and you are thus relieved from EVER having to engage in misspelling again.
posted on September 2, 2000 06:55:42 PM new
Look who is calling who a devil!! I think it may take me a while to get myself out of the corner we have painted me into. LOL!!
posted on September 3, 2000 12:18:42 PM new
shipment of 3 oz memory module
wanted to ship fed ex
I requested ship usps priority mail with tracking # total cost 3.55
He wanted to ship Mailbox etc at a cost of 8.00 for a 3 oz memory module
Did not agree so I canceled my bid
and then I get this type of emails--
"I'm not blind to the fact that you ignore terms and then try to dictate. If
you don't like the terms, then don't bid, you idiot.
Don't waste any more of my time with your dribble. I've reported your
practice of bid retractions to eBay. Retractions are for people who make
mistakes, not for idiots who don't get their way."
I think I made this seller irate because he did not get his way!!!!
posted on September 3, 2000 01:27:00 PM new
God help us....another shipping overcharging thread.
For all of you who thinks ANYBODY charges to much S&H, FIRST you have to send extra payment to the seller who UNDERCHARGES for shipping, otherwise SHUTUP and read the TOS BEFORE you even consider clicking on the Place Bid button.
Any of you Shipping Cost Know-It-Alls ever send extra payment to a seller who undercharged you for shipping. Can I see a show of hands.....Thought so. Just a bunch of whiny hypocrites. Begone from this topic and repent your complaining ways.
posted on September 3, 2000 01:42:25 PM newHad his auction page read Shipping AND HANDLING, there would be no problem because there would have been no bid. His TOS read Shipping Cost. When, in actuality, he is charging more than the shipping cost.
Incorrect. He stated his charge for shipping the item to you. He did not state the charge paid to the carrier. The charge paid to the carrier is just a part of the total shipping cost.
Now, if he had said postage will be $xx.xx then that would be a different story. Postage is the amount paid to the post office for delivery of your item. Nothing more, nothing less. But postage can be (and often is) just a small part of the total shipping expense.
posted on September 3, 2000 01:51:55 PM newBarrelracer: I'll try to make it clearer. I did see that the shipping cost was $4.20. And I reiterate, it stated, ''cost to ship.'' I assumed that meant the item weighed between 2-3 pounds and I was paying the priority mail ''cost'' to ship the item.
You assumed that priority mail postage and "cost to ship" are the same thing. Therein lies your error.
posted on September 4, 2000 12:59:15 AM new
Trueuser>>>>>stated in Post>>>Recently I sold a laptop, I put the wrong S&H fees in the listing and guess what? I had to pay $10.00 out of my pocket for Shipping it. I approached the buyer with the problem, Well, he stated he's bound by the Ad, and I could not disagree with him. I even left him a positive feedback, it was not his fault it was mine.
WELLLLLLLLLLLLLL TRUEUSER
YOU LITERALLY BLOW MY MIND! I am amazed that you would even express this mistake of yours to the buyer let alone try & collect the shortage!! WoW think best to have kept silent, and try not to repeat mistake... OH brother--- I just love the part where he says "AND I EVEN LEFT HIM POS FB cuz IT WASNT HIS FAULT!! Well my my my arent you a nice guy! HA!! GEEZ I wonder if the thought of posting a NEG for buyer who did NOTHING WRONG crossed his mind??? Sure kinda sounded that way to me by reading his post! OH my god, I now see his ID name in a MUCH BETTER LIGHT! true user
In my neck of the woods we'd refer to this type of individual as ----a real piece of work-----..............
