posted on January 30, 2006 10:59:54 PM
... when you see another poster go crazy before your eyes? Is there anything you should do? Do you just watch them fall apart, like people did with Elvis? Is there any point in talking to them or should you just ignore them?
posted on January 31, 2006 01:29:00 AM
Suggest that they go back on their meds... abd ignore all their future rants/posting (there is a Vendio option to do this).
posted on January 31, 2006 05:00:12 AM
There is NO point in talking to them. IMO, it's best to ignore. The best rules I ever read about arguing a point are the one below. How many of these have all of us broken?
You will never change anyone’s mind on a matter of opinion. Someone going into an argument believing one thing, and coming out the other side not believing it is a freak occurrence ranking somewhere alongside virgin birth and victorious English sporting teams. People change their minds gradually, and if anything a prolonged argument only serves to back someone into a corner, huddling closer to the security blanket of what they believe.
Correcting a factual error is much easier, but never confuse correcting a factual error with changing the opinions that fact was being used to support. The opinion will survive in the absence of the fact, until a new fact is found to justify it. (See also, the many reasons for invading Iraq).
Seeing as arguing is largely pointless, one of the best things to do is to severely limit what you end up arguing about:
1. Never seek out things to disagree with. There are too many of them out there, and correcting the ills of the world just isn’t your job.
2. If you come across something you disagree with while randomly browsing, let it pass without comment (see rule 1). If it’s truly frustrating, write a reply, then delete it without sharing it with anyone else.
3. Even in the limited scope remaining, it is not your job to correct everything you find that you disagree with. Try to limit yourself to things where the subject is at least something that makes some practical difference to your life.
4. Do not argue about politics, religion, or matters of personal taste or comparative morality.
5. DO NOT argue with Lisp programmers, believers in the Semantic Web, or furries.
6. Saying something controversial in your own space (i.e. your weblog) is only arguing if you directly reference somebody you are disagreeing with (or it is clearly understood in subtext who you are disagreing with), and that person is likely to give a #*!@ about what you said.
7. If someone disagrees with something you’ve said, you’re already in an argument. See below.
Once you find yourself in an argument, your job is now to make your point clearly, and then leave. You are allowed two passes:
1. State your case
2. Clarify any misunderstandings
Once you have stated your case, there’s no point re-stating it. Going over the same ground repeatedly will damage your case: nobody likes reading the same interminable debate over and over again. Similarly, if people read what you have to say, understand it, but continue to disagree anyway, there’s nothing more you can do unless you suddenly come up with a totally new argument. The only productive thing you can add is if people clearly don’t understand what you’re saying, and you need to clarify.
There’s a trap here, though. Sometimes, understanding is experiential. For example, to understand religious belief you must at some level ‘experience’ God. Someone without this experience can understand the mechanics of belief, but never understand the belief itself. Besides religion, I also have precisely this problem with RDF: I get into long debates where people try to explain the damn thing to me when I already know the mechanics. I just haven’t experienced that spark of enlightenment that has gone with it for the True Believers.
If you are in one of these arguments, you can clarify ‘misunderstandings’ until you’re blue in the face, but someone who has experienced the belief will not ever be talking on the same wavelength as someone who hasn’t.
After you’ve stated your case and made a single pass at clarifying any misunderstandings people may have about your case, that’s it. Time to leave. Getting the last word is only important in a protracted argument: the longer the argument, the more valuable the last word becomes. Keep the argument short, and it barely matters.
Sometimes, you’ll ignore all these rules, and get into a month-long argument about RDF with a fundamentalist gun-nut emacs-user. What then?
The ideal attitude to project during any argument is one of calm disinterest.
Any emotional involvement you show is a weakness that can be exploited by your opponent. Even being passionate about your subject is dangerous, because over time passion becomes zeal, and zeal becomes shrillness. Affect the air of someone who is completely convinced of their correctness, but does not really care that the rest of the world is so stupid as to not realise it.
If you can get away with it, try for a mildly amused disinterest. It will infuriate your opponent, and if your opponent gets angry while you’re remaining calm, that is a distinct advantage, especially when there is an audience involved. People who are sitting on the fence in a debate will naturally gravitate to the speaker who is perceived as being reasonable.
Other useful techniques are being nasty out-of-band, in the hope your opponent will bring that into the debate, or saying something inflammatory and then immediately retracting it: your opponent will run with whatever it was you said, while the audience discounts it due to the retraction. Both these techniques will make you enemies, but generally they’ll only make enemies out of people who don’t agree with you in the first place.
Amused disinterest also gives you a face-saving escape plan: if you were never emotionally invested in the argument, you can walk away from it without conceding defeat.
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
posted on January 31, 2006 05:18:24 AMIs there anything you should do?
It might be fun to make odds on how long it will be till the process is complete. I, for one, don't think we've seen the worst yet. I don't expect supernova-flameout until the next election.
____________________________________________
posted on January 31, 2006 06:06:44 AM
I agree about comrade helen and kraftdinner, yes their postings are pathetic. Glad to see you recognize you have a problem kraftdinner.
That's the first step
You and comrade helen should remove yourselves from the board to avoid more embarrassing posts.
Ron
"I'm so depressed. My doctor refused to write me a
prescription for Viagra. He said it would be like putting
a new flagpole on a condemned building."
[ edited by WashingtoneBayer on Jan 31, 2006 06:12 AM ]
posted on January 31, 2006 06:35:06 AM
I personally like it! It's a very inexpensive and readily available form of entertainment. Video would make it better though.
posted on January 31, 2006 06:48:26 AM
Who are you talking about, sister krafty? Yourself? Linda? Crowfarm>? Me?
Clarity - remember that clarity youlike to chalk up when your feeling authoritative and in control of the wheels round here?
But thats a big thing with you, isnt it kraft? You want to control everything and everybody and when you cant get it like that, you start in with your sh*. Just because they told you you were sick, and you bought it, you think its good for somebody else and the way it has to be. I, myself, especially like how your cutsey nice friend play that you lay down is only for the later rip-up and rip-off yuk yuks. (What do you think, Linda? True or False?)
I am so sure you are really really worried about Linda. oh, and heres a picture for your thread on the cutest pumpkin of the year:
NOW THATS A MAN OF THE YEAR!!!! :0
edit to add comma's for the droll nutty professor..wouldnt want to send him mad over it.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jan 31, 2006 06:57 AM ]
posted on January 31, 2006 06:52:41 AM
kraft, what are you talking about? or who?
right now, I look on here, your thread is at the top, then one about Mrs King, then others that looks to have not many replies.
You know I don't post much, so someone clue me in, thanks
posted on January 31, 2006 07:04:28 AM
Near it is just more BS from kraftdinner.
Board psychologists are pathetic at best and dangerous at worst.
Ron
"I'm so depressed. My doctor refused to write me a
prescription for Viagra. He said it would be like putting
a new flagpole on a condemned building."
posted on January 31, 2006 07:09:41 AM
NTS, you are right. I didnt see ANYThing here to indicate what she's supposedly talking about.
Must be occuring on the other hot spots that I dont go to.
And kraft, if you mean me, then you and your K's sister (the von krap trappers) need to stop following me around. You're not my friend, so dont even pretend it goes like that. Youre just annoying like a freaking nazi and thats why you work up a sweat over somebody's else freedom of expression.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jan 31, 2006 07:11 AM ]
posted on January 31, 2006 07:16:19 AM
helen, do not attempt to say what I am discussing. Youre another one. If you dont know, than stay out of it.
edit and thank you for the link. I suppose I am to go and read it now? I dont think i want to get involved in another one of the swing sisters drama's.
.
dbl likes this edit thingie. It doesnt get emailed now does it?
You know also Helen, for all your smarts-you are really stupid sometimes. Seems to me you dont even know what your party stands for!! No wonder you cant manage to swing it to win an election, you and good ole 'hil. when kraft starts her niggling threads its just peachy, but when somebody else does it, they are trolling? yeah, democracy is a great thing. Try it on sometime.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jan 31, 2006 07:32 AM ]
posted on January 31, 2006 08:02:59 AM
oh and colin, while were chatting? Just wanted to tell you I get such a chuckle outta your jokes tho I dont always say so. (sweet jelly belly laughs - what color they ask?) but at least I didnt post your REAL FULL NAME...THAT IS AGAINST COMMUNITY GUIDE LINES AND VENDIO RULES. <<<<< For some >>>>>>>
Do you think if I did that, that would leave you open for Identity theft or some crazy stalker? I wonder if those new laws have any effect if you get hacked or something? We'll have to ask the resident flatfoot here if he knows..he was my friend in high school anyway. (big smiles.)
posted on January 31, 2006 08:29:44 AM
My name and other information is all over the web, on my sites and others.
I'm proud of myself and my accomplishments unlike many of the nameless, faceless, complainers on this board and others.
I don't worry much about the identity crap, I've taken many precautions. (Armed, dangerous and vengeful to the ninth degree)
And besides that.. I would actually hunt down and remove an offending culprit (maybe their family too)
(I’d put a smiley face here but I don’t like the little bast**ds)
And even better I can now be quoted elsewhere as a Torture loving, psychopathic, baby murdering, Bush loving, flag waving, Neo-con, Limbot, frog stomping, inconsiderate, homosexual bashing, bigot with bad feeling toward the poor, homeless, disabled, ill and the stupid.
posted on January 31, 2006 08:55:21 AMNearthesea, we are discussing trolls.
And if you follow the troll Helen's link, guess who the first troll posting is? Yep, you guessed it. It is Kathy cowfarm mingotree.
.
.
.
Many misleading tricks in 2006. The new Demomoron slogan.
posted on January 31, 2006 09:24:55 AM
Helen-thanks for the link "trolls" we were wondering where crowfart disappeared to.When Linda wasnt posting in here for a couple of weeks,either was she,or very little.She has been following Linda around for 2 years. guess she was bored with us and now I see she has followed Linda over to the OTWA..what a psychopathic scumbag. Heres a cut and paste from a poster over there who saw thru this nitwit right off the bat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by my74
The Ignore feature.......peaceful bliss...I tell ya.
It's funny too. Better than trolling the troll. It's like watching the video game Pac Man........One user just chomping away at every thread......notice me! Notice me!
I agree, my74.
Mingotree, Lord love ya, I know you've put up with this troll at that other board, and that's reason enough to feel bad for you. But this isn't Vendio. I'm not about the stomp on your toes as a newer poster, but the fact is that you are." And another fact is that you only seem to show up and post here when the troll is stomping about (thus, frankly, lending some credibility to the claims I'd seen her make--prior to my plonking her into my personal shriek pit--that you are following her around)."
Consider it a personal request, from a new friend--with long experience at AW/Vendio and with this particular troll--to another new friend. Please stop. Put the troll on ignore, and contribute your (in my opinion, informed, interesting, and insightful) opinions on-topic to the threads. In short, please stop feeding the troll...and shine in your own right.
When you poke the troll, but you still throw it a hunk of meat (the attention that sustains it), you've fed it. But when, no matter what the troll has to say about you, or about any other topic, you simply do not respond, then you have starved it. It can spin itself into a frantic and freaky posting frenzy worthy of Taz...so what? On ignore, the troll doesn't even exist, other than a nifty notation that "you are ignoring X's posts" every place that they've spewed their toxic spittle. Tee-hee.
Please...don't feed the trolls.
Beth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
[ edited by classicrock000 on Jan 31, 2006 09:26 AM ]
posted on January 31, 2006 10:50:16 AM
The reference to communists and nazi's, because some of us want to know how to handle a situation, is a typical example of trying to communicate with the religious right. Is there anything you people DON'T hate?
posted on January 31, 2006 11:01:03 AMAnd even better I can now be quoted elsewhere as a Torture loving, psychopathic, baby murdering, Bush loving, flag waving, Neo-con, Limbot, frog stomping, inconsiderate, homosexual bashing, bigot with bad feeling toward the poor, homeless, disabled, ill and the stupid.
Thats nice for you, Colin. But I dont own a gun and I dont want crazies coming after me or my family.
because some of us want to know how to handle a situation,
Who put you in charge to handle anything or anybody... Haig-o-mite?
The reference to communists and nazi's,
Oh, but we do see your baiting from miles away krafty dearist!
Goes like this:
right now, I'm trying to get this ship wheel turing and going my way ... some answers to my questions ...paraphrasing of course from bareback mountain thread.
posted on January 31, 2006 11:13:06 AM
Classic, that person is calling Linda the troll. I think she has it a little backwards. Linda likes to shoot the sh* on politics. Mingotree just follows her around to get her yaya's off.
btw, I dont think trolls eat meat. They are vegetarians.
posted on January 31, 2006 11:13:18 AM
"The reference to communists and nazi's, because some of us want to know how to handle a situation, is a typical example of trying to communicate with the religious right. Is there anything you people DON'T hate?"
yea I hate communists and Nazi's you gotta a problem with that??
posted on January 31, 2006 11:14:41 AM
I know maggie. We've seen your idea of "best looking guy of the year."
Classic, how can they not see, that them thinking they have to handle somebody in the first place else is not nazi'ish?
Even a cop knows you will have to wait until sombody breaks a law before you can arrest them. Poor k2 snifterdog, we must control...we must control all others...
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Jan 31, 2006 11:21 AM ]
posted on January 31, 2006 11:15:22 AM
DB-the point I was trying to make was even that person who doesnt know crowfart very well acknowledge the fact that crowfart was following Linda around from post to post.
