posted on December 31, 2000 07:05:37 AM new
I am not sure if this has been mentioned yet or not. Has anyone though of the insanity of the USPS paying a person or persons to list this stuff.
In the first place, it probably pays just salaries involved, and secondly, they want way too much to "attempt" to deliver to you, something they evidently couldn't deliver to someone else.
posted on December 31, 2000 04:11:50 PM new
I went to have a look at the USPS sales, and was amazed at how much they wanted to post the items! $35 for 24 t-shirts, $5.90 for some halloween decorations - and insurance or tracking was extra. I am not familiar with US shipping rates, but I thought this seemed rather high, even with a postage hike.
They got paid for delivery the first time and failed, and they want to do postage PLUS for the second time? AND you have to pay them, of all sellers, for insurance?
posted on December 31, 2000 04:24:41 PM new
Mivona.....
It is kind of funny that USPS of all Sellers would be selling postal insurance for their items! But obviously it's needed. Just think of how they came by their inventory!
Their shipping charges do appear excessive. I wonder if they gouge on insurance charges, too?
posted on December 31, 2000 07:42:15 PM new
If they are paying temp help they are only paying around $10.00 an hour. Which is what I would think they would be using. They may also be using injured employees. They have to pay them anyway and are always looking for something for them to do and that is no real out of pocket expense for them.
The point here should be if this is a conflict of intrest. These are items they were intrusted to deliver and for whatever reason didn't. Now they are competing with other sellers on Ebay.
The postal service is big on conflict of intrest but yet they are now putting themself in a situation where it could be very profitable to not deliver, sell it on Ebay and generate more revenue by shipping it again. This is a troublsome thought!!!
The Postal Service donates undeliverable items, such as samples, magazines and tapes to charities, nursing homes etc. all the time. If an item has an apparent value that is what is to be done with it.
[ edited by theakitty on Dec 31, 2000 11:34 PM ]
posted on December 31, 2000 08:22:37 PM new"that is no real out of pocket expense for them"
It certainly is an out of pocket expense, one that runs at about $4 billion a year. These are employees who would otherwise be paid at full rate by the Dept. of Labor, payable by the postal service to the D of L in full plus administrative charges to boot.
Not only that, but there is a need to supervise them, administer their leave, pay, and provide for transportation to and from medical treatment, find ways to incorporate them into the workforce in duties which do not infringe their medical limitations and are within their capabilities.
Limited duty employees are no free ride for the PO, in fact they are, in general, a major hindrence to the mission of delivery of the mail as well as a big PITA.
Is it free to the state to have inmates incarcerated in state prisons?
posted on December 31, 2000 09:49:19 PM new
KRS postal management? Not that it matters, however you are misleading when you state "It certainly is an out of pocket expense, one that runs at about $4 billion a year."
You know it as well as I do it is an expense that is already there.
The question here is does the Postal Service belong selling items on Ebay that they were paid to deliver????
Yes, without a doubt some of the packages not delivered were insured, however many were not. Having delivered for the postal service I know only a small percent are ever insured.
If the Postal Service needs to increase revenue maybe they need to look in house and improve on customer service.
[ edited by theakitty on Dec 31, 2000 11:29 PM ]
posted on December 31, 2000 11:33:43 PM new
No, the poster presented injured employees to be free, in effect.
They are not. They are paid their full salary and in most cases perform make-work to keep them on the clock. Were they not in that status they would be performing duties that in some way furthered the delivery of mail, and yes, customer service. They cost double really, because their normal position duties still have to be done and they are done as best possible through the use of overtime, at even higher cost, and the use of temporary employees who degrade efficiency and customer service.
As to the question, I've already said that it is not a problem. The undelivered stuff is there and has to be dealt with somehow. There is nothing new in that and it's been done for many years at sites as listed in the link I posted above. Now they are consolidating that disposal function in Topeka, KS, which is their central procurement and disbursement location, and using the internet auction Avenue as an efficient means of doing it.
Now do you want to make some weepy moral issue of it? Are they cutting into your business? Get over it.
The U.S. Postal Service is an active corporation in competition in the business of mail transport, and they have the responsibility and the right to conduct that business with as much efficiency as they can muster.
All this silly conjecture about them selling "lost" items is a little thoughtless, isn't it? Seems like it would occur to someone that if an item is truly "lost" then the Postal Service wouldn't have it to sell, now would they?
Oh, and yas, I know what I'm talking about, but I don't have to tell you why.
posted on January 1, 2001 12:24:48 AM new
KRS...
"All this silly conjecture about them selling "lost" items is a little thoughtless, isn't it? Seems like it would occur to someone that if an item is truly "lost" then the Postal Service wouldn't have it to sell, now would they?"
That is one way to look at it. Another is had they delivered it they wouldn't have it either! Not that the P.O. could ever miss handle the delivery or damage the package so noone knows where to deliver it.
You make it sound as though these are all insured parcels which the customers have been reimbursed for and the Postal Service is just trying to recoup some of their lost revenue. (Which would be fine!) What about the Grandmother who made a quilt for her Granddaughter never thought to insure it, the label fell off and the package ended up as the "The undelivered stuff"? If it was my package I certainly would rather it go to charity than USPS pocket book. I guess thats "some weepy moral issue". I thought that is what the Postal Service was, things like honesty, integrity and morality!!
If "The U.S. Postal Service is an active corporation in competition in the business of mail transport, and they have the responsibility and the right to conduct that business with as much efficiency as they can muster." then compete and don't hide behind your monopoly!
posted on January 1, 2001 12:40:25 AM newPat (or whoever is on moderation duty at this time),
Was the USPS invited to this thread with 24 hours notice, or have the rules been officially changed again????
posted on January 1, 2001 12:55:10 AM new
Hello Kevin
Because the Seller under discussion is the USPS itself, a branch of the US Government, the invitation and 24 hr lockdown period have been waived in this instance. The moderation team has set similar precedences in the past, when Microsoft, Goodwill and other large institutions or multinationals have been discussed. Same deal would apply if you chose to start a discussion relating to Australia Post.
Of course, if you disagree with the Moderation team's decision in this instance, you are welcome to email your concerns to [email protected]
MichelleG
Moderator
*edited for UBB
[ edited by MichelleG on Jan 1, 2001 12:56 AM ]
posted on January 1, 2001 01:07:17 AM new
G'day Michelle,
Thank you for the clarification.
Would an analysis of the business practises of a corporate division of Ebay that is a seller on Ebay be accepted in the same way?
posted on January 1, 2001 01:19:12 AM new
Hi Kevin,
Do you mean a division like Great Collections or Butterfields? Discussions relating to both have been allowed previously without the usual invitiation and waiting period.
If a specific auction and it's bidders and/or winner were under discussion, however, then the Moderator would most likely require the CGs be followed and ask that the parties involved be invited to participate. Depending on the direction of the discussion, the Moderator may also choose to waive the 24hr lockdown provided the other requirements of the CGs are met.
You make it sound like because it is the USPS, they are above reproach? I don't think so.
At the shipping charges they are quoting, I think that insurance should be part of the deal. To think you have to pay EXTRA to make sure that the USPS will deliver their "own" stuff seems extortionate to me, on top of their quoted prices. Laughable, even, or part of a twisted governmental sense of logic.
The moral issue here is not whether they are cutting into other seller's business, but whether:
1) they should be selling stuff on auction that they probably mishandled in the first place (based on experience of USPS posted here),
2) they should be levying postage charges as they have listed and asking for insurance on TOP, and finally
3) they now have a vested interest in making sure non-insured parcels don't reach their destinations, as they will be able to profit twice from them.
posted on January 1, 2001 09:33:13 AM new
theakitty, "the label fell off" says quite a bit, don't you think? Labels, carefully placed and taped over don't fall off, at least mine never do. But that exact thing accounts for a great deal of undeliverable mail. Sure, they have nightly basketball games with your packages at every MSC tour I mail processing center, and things are damaged beyond recognition. Their machines eat items frequently, but very often those are items packaged to look like letters but with something inside which creates a bulge and causes them to hang in the LSMs. Things are left in vehicles, in corners of offices later to be stacked on top of, and on and on. If you ever saw it all you might never mail another item in your life. Nevertheless, they do maintain a 90%+ successful delivery rate across the country in every weather and during every holiday.
mivona, if you don't like their shipping charges or insurance stipulations just don't bid, eh? What do those complaints have to do with anything? Raise your own rates an equivelant amount. Bet you'll go flat. People are bidding on those things because they trust the Postal Service or they perceive a good deal. What do you care?
As to any ulterior motive, well, if you had any knowledge of the things of which you speak of with a facade of authority you would know that they could never organize any such nefarious plot. They aren't guided by the republican campaign committee, after all.
posted on January 1, 2001 11:50:04 AM new
Actually I do give the USPS a lot of credit for the GREAT Job they do! Without any question the Postal Service has a lot of very dedicated and wonderful employees.
My point is they have no right to be selling items they didn't or couldn't deliver. To sell items which belong to them, Postal equiptment, Philatelic items in any venue, Ebay or wherever they so choose is fine, No Problem!
We could debate all day as to why these packages become undeliverable and place blame on everyone even get as crazy as a foreign plot to undermind the integrity of the Postal Service.
My concerns are these:
1. These are packages paid to be delivered and for whatever reason that does not happen.
2. These packages do not belong to the Postal Service just because they were intrusted to deliver them. They belong to the person who mailed them.
3. The USPS was already paid for a service that was not completed and should not be generating more postal revenue with these items. If nothing else it leaves them open for conflict of intrest debate.
posted on January 1, 2001 12:45:25 PM new
So you are morally objecting to a business practice. In doing so you are assuming that there has been a claim made for lost mail, that there was no insurance payment made for damaged mail, and that each and every package sent everywhere was correctly addressed with a legible return address included.
I submit that in every case where there was a possibility of delivery or return of any package every effort has been made to make that delivery or return. Very sufficient time is allowed to pass before any item is declared to be unaccountable in some way. Once all possible *rightful* disbursement efforts have been completed then what? Hold these mountains of goods for all time, or attempt through them to recover even a small portion of the amount which has been expended in the extraordinary (beyond the paid for service) attempt to determine where the darn things *should* go?
The postal service is not making profits from the items, but selling them is probably cheaper than having them hauled to the dump.
"Conflict of Interest"--a fun phrase to shout out, isn't it? But there is no conflict of interest because it is the interest of the postal service to deliver your mail as quickly and inexpensively as it can. To do that they need to kick away the baggage and move on with their job.
No fear, I won't be bidding. You may feel there is no conflict of interest, but I find it strange in the extreme that you would have to pay such shipping charges to the bloody Post Office to deliver "their" stuff, AND pay insurance on top of their inflated shipping charges to make sure that they don't "lose" it.
They don't even detail the contents of "job lots" so that you can bid appropriately. A bunch of CDs? They tell you what some of them are, but won't give a listing, and say there are duplicates. Sheesh! No details, no guarantees, absolutely no returns... just hand over loads of money and they may deliver a parcel of who knows what, if you pay the "protection money" to get them to deliver it.
posted on January 1, 2001 03:06:15 PM new
As well as not really knowing what you are bidding on, the auctions state the stuff "may be slightly damaged." No thanks. I might bid on something slightly damaged if it was something I absolutely had to have, but I definitely want to know if it's damaged or not so I can bid accordingly.
posted on January 1, 2001 03:55:54 PM new
Yeah, I've been to their auctions in San Francisco, and though they hire auctioneers as required in law, there is no close inspection allowed of great large jumbles of stuff mostly stacked into their rolling cage containers that are about 6' x 6' x 6'. Noone can see what's in the middle of each container and there are many people cramming into the room trying to select which lots they will bid on in less than an hour. Nevertheless, the bidding runs very high on most things. Like most sit down auctions.
It's a massive amount of goods and much of it is junk.
But think about that music club, or those. The ones that offer 12 selections for a penny? Kids eat them up, and they might not be available for delivery by the time the things arrive. The music clubs don't want them back, so what do you do with hundreds of thousands of mixed CDs? If you tried to sort, catagorize, and describe them it would take a lot of people a long time to do at great expense, and all the while more would be coming in. And that's just one type of item.
posted on January 1, 2001 04:08:46 PM new
I would have thought that listings would be the perfect kind of work for those unable to other postal delivery-type work. It they are already being paid, why not have them do a job decently, and list things with full information, or as full of information as they can?
posted on January 1, 2001 04:31:30 PM new
For one thing, if their actual position, the one from which they bid for and awarded, did not require typing most of them would refuse to do it. Also, many of the personnel who are in the injury compensation program are of a type which are likely to find any excuse to claim further injury. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome is a popular claim because of the difficulty of medically refuting the condition.
posted on January 1, 2001 04:51:39 PM new
Serious question here, krs.....
Say a postal carrier is bitten in the leg by a dog. Doctor says it's okay to return to work, but only "light duty," i.e. no walking to do deliveries. The postal employee can refuse to type listings, do computer work or package items to ship because his job description says he's a postal "carrier?" In the private industry, this would never, ever fly. If you are unable to do the job described in your job description, but can do some sort of work to earn your keep, so to speak, then that's what you will do until you can return to your normal duties.
I totally get what you're saying about carpal tunnel and other hard to prove ailments. I work for a huge corporation in the private sector and see this crap all the time. The trendy new one is fibromyalgia (sp?). It's not one that they can use for a workers comp claim, however, they use it to collect disability retirement. Many of the folks that have suddenly come down with this are those same people who have already had carpal tunnel and other elusive ailments.
posted on January 1, 2001 05:31:05 PM new
Essentially, yes. There's a differentiation though between light and limited duty. A light duty request is made by an employee incapacitated for regular duty for other than job related conditions. A carrier bitten by your dog while in performance of his or her duties would be a limited duty employee subject to the benefit of Dept. of Labor regulation.
Many limited duty employees are ones who have applied for D of L disability retirement (payable at 75% salary, non taxable, which is almost always more than the take home pay while working) but brought back to work at any task which is within their capabilities so as to avoid payment to compensate the D of L. Long term limited duty work assignments are determined by contract between the PO and the employee and agreed to by both. Most of them would rather be home getting paid and the ultimatum of such a contractual agreement, because they are given carefully designed assignments that their condition does not prevent them doing and then presented with it in a way that they can either agree to or forgo their claim and return to their previous job, causes a level of resentment, to put it mildly. With a cooperative doctor they can obtain a medical document stating almost any restriction they desire. When they agree to the contract they limit the scope of their available excuses, but still they cannot be assigned any duty not specifically addressed in the agreement.
I remember reading over a year ago in EO forum that you are a retired postmaster. Is this true?
Has anyone beside myself checked out the individual negs the USPS has been receiving in the last few months and their lame excuses to the negs? Personally I wouldn't buy from them. -Sorry about not reading ALL the posts to see if anyone has mentioned the lousy feedbacks for USPS.
Apparently some items are shipped with damage.....and there are complaints about not receiving the entire auction package.....
