posted on September 21, 2000 11:30:12 AM new
I received this in an e-mail today. What do you think of it? Does it sound like the truth? (I was born in '63, and do not know what really happened.)
******************************************
Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century."
Unfortunately many have forgotten and still countless others
have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country
but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. Part of
my conviction comes from personal exposure to those who suffered
her attentions.
The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot.
The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat.
In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF Survival School was a
POW in Ho Lo Prison- the "Hanoi Hilton."
Dragged from a stinking cesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and
dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered to describe for a visiting American
"Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received.
He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the
subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet,
which sent that officer berserk.
In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which
permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s
frenzied application of a wooden baton.
From 1983-85, Col. Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6
years in the
"Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife
lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned,
fed,
clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit.
They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world
that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with
his SSN on it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda
and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and
asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed
babies?"
and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent
captors?"
Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver paper.
She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and
once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs,
she turned to the officer in charge ... and handed him the little pile
of papers.
Three men died from the subsequent beatings.
Col.Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is
the only reason we know about her actions that day.
I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and
was captured by the North Vietnamese communists in South Vietnam
in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary
confinement,
one year in a cage in Cam-bodia, and one year in a "black box"
in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and
murdered a female missionary, a nurse in a leprosarium in Ban me Thuot,
South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle near the Cam-bodian border.
At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal
weight is 170 lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals."
When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp
communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane
Fonda.
I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment
we POWs were receiving, which was far different from the treatment
purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane
and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my
knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steel placed on my
hands,
and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped.
I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after
I was released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on
TV?
She did not answer me.
This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of
"100 Years of Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women"
should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood
of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions
to,
but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one
of them.
Please take the time to forward to as many people as you
possibly can.
It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that
we will never forget.
(Name Deleted at Moderator's Request)
[ edited by joyz412e on Sep 21, 2000 11:31 AM ]
[ edited by joyz412e on Sep 21, 2000 11:49 AM ]
posted on September 21, 2000 11:46:18 AM new
joyz412e,
Posting personal identifying information is a violation of the Community Guidelines. Please edit out the personal information of the sender of the email. Otherwise, I'll have to delete your post.
posted on September 21, 2000 11:53:42 AM new
Actually, Pat, the writer of the letter did not send it directly to me, it was forwarded as an open letter to be distributed to the internet community at large. Will you require all names be changed? Even of Ms. Hanoi herself?
posted on September 21, 2000 12:38:42 PM new
Joyz412e,
To answer your question whether or not this can be true:
I have seen men interviewed who were there the day Fonda turned over the papers and earned them beatings. I have no reason to disbelieve their testimony and no reason to believe any denial Fonda may have issued. Could it be true? Most certainly, and I happen to believe if anyone has earned the right to the benefit of the doubt, it is the P.O.W.s --not Fonda.
edited to add:
For clarification, in case you don't know, Jane Fonda did tour P.O.W. camps with the North Vietnamese, actively campaigned for their cause, allowed herself to be used for their propaganda purposes, and openly displayed contempt for American soldiers. She has since expressed regret for her actions and words, and I could perhaps have said let bygones be bygones if not for the compelling stories of many P.O.W.s who suffered from her actions.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:05:33 PM new
Jane Fonda is a traitor and should not be honored for anything. She should have been imprisoned.
That little history is essentially true, though there are incorrect dates and I doubt if there ever was an F4 pilot who was also a 'river rat'.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:08:51 PM new
I heard that, some Barbara Walters thing
"100 Women of the Century"
I'll never forget, and I was just a kid too, my parents are the ones that told me about it, I cannot believe anyone would honor her as one of the 100 Women of the Century, FOR WHAT? For this:
[b]"I would think if you understood what communism was,you
would hope, you would pray on your knees, that we would
someday become communists."[/b]
If that wasn't the dumbest speech? I don't know what was, and that was said at a University here in the U.S., before the Vietnam thing.
I believe she doesn't go around touting communism anymore.... geeeez , Woman of the Century NOT.....
posted on September 21, 2000 01:12:13 PM new
Thanks jamesoblivion and elfgifu. I did try to see if this so-called award was true, and found that some consider this an urban legend posting. However, that does not change what happened over there.
How much forgiveness are mere humans expected to have for one another?
posted on September 21, 2000 01:26:10 PM new
What organization is honoring Jane Fonda as one of the 100 Women of the Century?
If they want a nomination of a woman who did something in Vietnam, I could nominate a couple nurses who served there, and truly made a difference.
joyz, the dates are wrong, and I thought the river rats were the Navy guys who ran the little gunboats upriver (could be wrong on that one).
posted on September 21, 2000 01:39:44 PM new
Its a book, thru the Ladies Home Journal, called "100 Most Important Women of the 20th Century"
They have it divided into catagories, like artists and entertainers, etc... and Jane Fonda IS in there under that catagory as one of the 100 Most Important Women of the 20th Century.
posted on September 21, 2000 01:53:54 PM new
I don't read the LHJ, never have, but I could think of A LOT more actresses or entertainers (female) that could or should have been in there, other than Jane Fonda, not only for her STUPID speeches and the Vietnam thing, she ain't that great an actress! I mean she's ok, but, dang does anyone remember Barberella (sp?) low budget, BAD acting, and really a stupid movie!
To answer your question about Ms. Hanoi, Jane Fonda is a public figure so it's fine to mention her name. If you had posted her address and phone number, that would be a different matter.
Jane is listed under "Entertainers", and her protest activities are barely noted. The main recognition seems to be for her contribution to "...her role as workout guru that left the deepest imprint on the culture".
edited for link problem
[ edited by corrdogg on Sep 21, 2000 02:35 PM ]
STILL don't know what I'm not doing correctly to UBB this link.
[ edited by corrdogg on Sep 21, 2000 02:37 PM ]
posted on September 21, 2000 02:17:56 PM new
Oh come on. In a culture where a major network awards one million dollars to a weasely child abuser named Richard who also gets all sorts of commercial endorsements, his face is plastered everywhere and we're never ever going to hear the end of him ... is it any real surprise that someone like Jane Fonda might be regarded as one of the most influential women of the 20th century?
The sole priority in this nation is sales. Every bit of our culture is governed by the great question What will sell?
posted on September 21, 2000 03:30:11 PM new
An excerpt from the July 7, 2000 issue of "The Washington Times" regarding the story of Jane Fonda being recognized for the award.
On Nov. 21, 1970 she (Jane Fonda) told a University of Michigan audience of some 2,000 students, "If you understood what communism was, you would hope, you would pray on your knees that we would some day become communist."
At Duke University in North Carolina she repeated what she had said in Michigan, adding "I, a socialist, think that we should strive toward a socialist society, all the way to communism.
posted on September 21, 2000 03:45:00 PM new
Sarge, I posted that one, and I couldn't make it bold.
Anyway, that statement, since, I believe it was my father, since he was always in to political discussions, I guess there's a reason for that, but he explained that one to me, I was really young. Ever since, I've always disliked Jane Fonda for that. And how the h*ll she gets away with saying sh*t like that. If she really felt like that, she shoulda moved to China or, the then USSR.
BUT of course years later, she DID SAY that she was mistaken or some such BS. And she might have been wrong on what she did in Vietnam, she said she was trying to help end the war by her actions, now if you could find that quote,yeah, she said that..and then they put her in some book as one of the 100 Important Women of the 20th Century.... NOT. yuck
posted on September 21, 2000 04:18:47 PM new
Not to retract in any way my previous statement that Hanoi Jane (Fonda) is a traitor who seems to have escaped prosecution by the claim that the U.S. was not legally at war with North Vietnam during her visit there and propagandizing in 1972,
The email above is embellished, with parts that are not true. Read all about it(!):
posted on September 21, 2000 04:51:05 PM new
My father will leave the room if anyone mentions Jane Fonda's name. I never understood his antipathy towards her until I did some reading about her activities during the Viet Nam conflict.
How she lives with the knowledge that she is responsible for the pain, suffering, and possible deaths caused by her actions is beyond me.
That woman deserved to be tried for treason and locked away for the rest of her life.
Jane Fonda is one of the few things upon which my father and I agree.
posted on September 21, 2000 05:00:05 PM new
Shadowcat-me too... its one of the things my father and I agree on too... and we don't even talk to each other any longer. But he is the one that told me all this a long time ago. Jane Fonda is something else, I agree, she should have been tried for treason or something, but instead, they 'honor' her??
posted on September 21, 2000 05:38:42 PM new
Jane Fonda was a traitor - she shouldn't be honored for anything, ever.
I was against that war but I was never against our military personnel - Our vets were treated shamefully when they returned home. . . we owe those men ( and women ) a lot.
posted on September 21, 2000 10:33:10 PM newBOO to you Jane Fonda!
I did like the movie "On Golden Pond". Jane Fonda just happened to be in it. My third grade teacher could have played the role just as well if not better.
posted on September 21, 2000 10:53:54 PM new
Barry (a train on one track) Barris,
Who remembers nothing about "On Golden Pond" except the flash of Jane's body on the boat dock.
posted on September 21, 2000 11:24:52 PM new
In my opinion Jane Fonda ranks right up there with Jeffery Dalmer, Richard Speck and John Wayne Gacy only she doesn't have the excuse of being mentally ill (if they were). She is just a low life entertainer who used our POW's pain to gain attention for herself.
posted on September 22, 2000 08:09:20 AM new
Oh my, talk about a sacraficial lamb. Umm--back then, Fonda was not alone--and she spoke for a great many people. Wrong or right--, be it her idealism at the time, her agony of the war dragging on, she really was only a small player in the whole Vietnam War Fiasco.
Reading this thread hurts--even now after all these years.
...) Barris