posted on February 1, 2001 03:07:21 PM new
I don't mind fees...it's reasonable to expect good things to cost money.
What I DON'T want is any site getting between me and my customers...or foolishly thinking they are NOT my customers and belong to the site (otherwise known as VENUE).
I like the idea of a co-op. Dunno if it has a chance, considering some of the monumental egos involved here.
posted on February 1, 2001 03:51:21 PM new
In a list of 21:
1-15 SITE STABILITY
16 Some kind of buyer and seller verification to get rid of the deadbeats and the scam artists.
17 Great search engines
18 An easy to navigate site
19 Some kind of rule about duplicates unless they are run as dutch or have some differences.
20 Not too many bells and whistles. Advertising might be necessary but it shouldn't be in competition to the sellers.
21 As few "tho shalts and thou shalt nots" as possible.
posted on February 1, 2001 07:00:50 PM new
I'm trying not to be negative tonight. But, in my opinion, no entity will be able to compete with eBay unless they have deep pockets, very deep pockets.
I belive it simply comes down to advertising and the ability to pay for it. Anyone can build a great site; there are sites up and running now that are better than eBay. Yet they get no traffic, little to no business.
Banner ads and word of mouth are not going to cut it. I suspect that only a tiny percentage of eBay users read message boards. You could build the best damn co-op site on the planet but how are you going to get traffic?
posted on February 1, 2001 07:04:45 PM new
I think that if there are listing fees of some kind, use them for server expenses, and advertising to bring buyers and sellers to the site. Also it would be nice if all buyers and sellers had some type of credit card on file along with one home address and an isp so they could not make trouble, run and re-register. If people are serious about buying and selling, this would not bother them in the least. I does no good to have 5 million users, (buyers and sellers) if 3 million of them are jerks. Quality rather then quantity. A good team of customer Service. Also taking advantage of the thousands of free listing services outthere for advertising. We did it for our website, a simple website and have nearly 2 million page views in just over a year.
posted on February 1, 2001 07:44:32 PM new
uaru: lol! Could you be a bit more clear??(g) Now that you've said the obvious what do we have to do to get them??
Here's a question? I have already written in other posts that if there's enough energy to get this going that sellers would be asked to send $100.00 to a trust account as an initiation fee over a 30 day period.
Trust being that this money couldn't be spent unless the members in this group could come up with and ratify a charter for the auction.
This being said what would you prefer fee wise? A larger initiation fees with less monthly or listing fees? Or a smaller initiation fee with higher monthly or initiation fees.
In my opinion a co-op would have to charge fees as it would need resources to build upon and maintain until it became large enough.
I would only participate in a non-profit, non-saleable- one member one vote co-op. And as the site gained in strength I believe that fees would be reduced as it's a non-profit site.
As far as site fees go, what I like is the idea of a monthly account for larger sellers, something similar to Amazon's $40.00 per month for 3000 listings and a listing fee for smaller sellers of ten cents with unlimited relists until sold. I'm not sure if FVF would be necessary, that would depend on a budget committee report.
Again, this is all stuff to be discussed and debated. But a site will need resources to compete with ebay.
If it's well organized and supported by a grass roots movement I think in a short time it would be quite productive and successful for bidders and sellers.
posted on February 1, 2001 07:57:32 PM new"If it's well organized and supported by a grass roots movement I think in a short time it would be quite productive and successful for bidders and sellers."
That is how eBay began, but times have changed. I do not belive in grass roots movements on the internet anymore - those days are gone? IMHO.
I'd still support you and this movement In hopes that I am wrong...
To answer your question, I'd prefer to pay "larger initiation fees with less monthly or listing fees."
"I would only participate in a non-profit, non-saleable- one member one vote co-op. And as the site gained in strength I believe that fees would be reduced as it's a non-profit site."
Fees could rise! My NFP credit union increases fees, they are always adding new bells and whistles - which cost $. Sounds familiar dosen't it?
posted on February 1, 2001 08:06:01 PM new
Morgantown: I still believe in grassroots and I believe that if do something well, and I mean really well, excite some folks, and treat them with respect and fairly then things will work out. I could be wrong.
And you're right. If we've planned wrong or something drastic effects the market then fees could go up. I guess who's ever in charge of the budget committee better do a good job!
posted on February 1, 2001 08:14:50 PM new
I know, but you gotta ExCiTe the masses. eBay should be called "eEntrenched!" Can you think of any other web site with such loyalty?
Jeez, I am not an eBay pom pom girl! I want to be able to list on other sites! If I was "part" owner of another site, that would be incredible!
If you/we have a shot, it would be a "grass root's" movement. I don't belive it, but that's the only current way. Unless some very creative ideas come up regarding advertising.
What you are trying will be tough, damn tough. I wish I was sharp enough to take on eBay. I would like to see eBay face some serious competition, but it would be a huge task.
I'll send you some email with some private thoughts. They might be to controversal for public airing.
posted on February 1, 2001 08:18:20 PM new
Last "Devil's Advocate" post from me. BIDDERS don't care about seller's plight and problems. They do not care! Perhaps ideas should be floated about making it a better site for BIDDERS?
posted on February 1, 2001 10:58:58 PM new
Some ideas Morgantown on making it a better site for bidders? As a small time seller and an even smaller buyer,I'd like to hear your ideas on that. Maybe you could start a new thread?
Getting bidders: I'm not sure if this is a no-no(spam) but I could put on say 200 books and contact every old customer of my books telling them where I am and what I may have of interest to them,likewise for all the other categories I have sold in. Think of the powersellers doing that to thousands of old customers.
If finances permit,we might be able to give some kind of rebate to new customers like $5 off their first $20 purchase or something in that vein.
As was mentioned in another thread by captain kirk, I believe,the primary trouble with a new site is that you have to raise your prices because you know you are not going to get the hits. Here's where true dedication comes in. If we know this is coming in say 6 months and we put away just one bargain we find a week we would have a lot of good bargains to start with. When bidders see bargains they come back, when they just see high prices they don't.
Putting the name out on every chat room, bulletin board, ect. we can find on the web.Not just an ad - more of a hey, have you seen xxx.com yet? You should see the beautiful vase I bought there for $5. Talk, talk,talk.
The coop idea alone may generate some free publicity. And a sellers coop going up against ebay has got to generate some interest. Maybe we'll see ya on Oprah, Gravid.
There's got to be a lot more ideas if we think about it.
posted on February 2, 2001 06:10:45 AM new
Jumping in for a minute. I'll be gone today and I don't know when Jamie will be here to answer. Jamie and I are not working together. I'll let Jamie handle the rest so as not to confuse folks.
posted on February 2, 2001 06:11:42 AM new
Hello Canvid,
I'm replying as a buyer.
1) Quality items. Truly collectable, truly vintage, truly rare books, truly antiques. If I want to buy a beanie baby or a video for my daughter there are already a plethora of marketplaces for that kind of stuff.
2) No bells and whistles with auction titles and search displays. Nothing gets featured, nothing gets highlighted. I want to be able to search and get a display that shows me the auction number, auction title, the seller's userid, the current bid or the starting bid, and the userid of the current high bidder. Nothing else.
3) No reserves. Start the bidding at the minimum you expect for the item and let the auction process and the interested bidders proceed without gimmicks or interference.
4) A true auction format. By this I mean that if a bid comes in very late in the auction then the ending time of the auction is extended by a few minutes. Allow early bidders to reconsider their "absolute" maximum in light of the sudden appearance of competition at the end of the auction.
5) Longer auction titles so that unrevealing abbreviations aren't necessary. A filtering program that excludes garbage in titles and descriptions (like LQQK).
6) Longer feedback comments. Feedback that is editable and deletable by the person leaving the feedback. Transaction only feedback but with a broader definition of feedback. Bid on an item and the seller cancels your bid? Bid on an item and then retract? Those are transactions in my book and comments should be allowed.
7a) Display feedback rating next to userid. codasaurus (+276, 10, -1 = +255) to alert folks to the underlying neutrals, negatives and repeats that go into the final rating.
-or-
7b) Feedback comments without a positive, neutral, negative rating. My userid would display as codasaurus (287) and if folks are really interested in the content of those 287 comments they can display the comments. And presumably give their attention to my most recent feedback. After all what does a positive or negative that I received 2 years ago have to do with me as a buyer or seller today? Especially when I have accumulated many feedback comments since the earlier comment?
8) The addition of the final price of each item to the feedback display. I would like to know if a seller has a history of inexpensive items or expensive items when I contemplate bidding. I think sellers would like the same historical info when evaluating a buyer.
9) Acceptance of a code of ethics by the sellers and buyers and establishment of a complaint and review committee to handle complaints and problem situations in a fair and expeditious manner. Committe membership would be on a rotating basis and the committee would be composed equally of sellers and buyers with a professional chairman to maintain order and break ties.
10) Chat board or boards with moderators and the ability to edit posts.
posted on February 2, 2001 06:41:57 AM new
Wow, lots of good posts.
First to clear up. I am not working with twinsoft. I won't go into the matter here. If you wish to know more you can either read the posts here on AW, and on other message boards or email either one of us.
UARU: Yes, it's pretty tough. I'm hoping that it won't be all in vain. After the twinsoft debacle even I am having some doubts.
But if we can build a grass roots movement and even if a co-op doesn't get created we may give some of the auction houses pause for thought, an improved marketplace improves their business too. In ebay's case I bet if they lowered their basic list fee to 20 cents the extra listings they'd get would overcompensate for the lesser fees?
Codeasaurus: Lot's of valid and good points. Bidders are extremely important and I think one of the opportunities of a co-op will be to improve their lot especially as sellers buy a lot too. I know I tend to buy on ebay and sell on other boards. That says something.
The feedback dilemma is a whole committee's worth of debate. I think there's a drastic need for reform.
I agree with you about a board regarding feedback and other issues.
Also, all those bells and whistles in my opinion are more about creating fees and profits than serving the auction community.
There's lots of room for improvement. It's why I'd like to see a co-op exist.
Keep up the ideas and posts. It's wonderful to see all this knowledge that ebay and other sites don't take advantage of. After all, we are the folks in the trenches facing the bidders and each other every day.
Frankly folks I'm only going to be posting for awhile. After what happened with twinsoft, which hurt quite a bit as I'd worked very hard and feel that some of the accusations are very much false, I'm being a bit gunshy about who I work with in the future.
I thank all for the kind emails of support and I still believe that a co-op is the way to go and want to help build it.
posted on February 2, 2001 07:07:28 AM new
Jamie - No need to quit posting - the only people who can ban you here are the Moderators.
As I said last night, before I realized I needed some clarity (an ongoing problem, I admit ), I would like to see some two to four-hour auctions. I'm an extremely impatient person, and hate waiting for auctions to end.
I'll check around and see how other co-ops attract members when they are first established. No biggie.
posted on February 2, 2001 07:36:52 AM new
jada: I'm sure most co-ops have their bumps and bruises when they get off the ground. Let's face it. People that are into building something like this are usually quite energetic and full of ideas. Not everyone is going to agree with each other!
