posted on February 4, 2001 11:30:50 AM new
Hmmmmmmm...
At this point I still do send/receive with PayPal. But I'm getting scared . Not because of any problems that I have had. But because of all that I have read here at AW.
I asked this question once here, but I guess I worded it wrong, because all I got was a bunch of attitude. And some very, well, not so nice comments.
So let me try this again, and I will be vary carefull with my wording. (If you come to the conclusion that I am an idiot, please don't post it .)
I just want some honest answers. This is for all sellers and buyers. Do you use PayPal? If so, why do you feel so safe. If not, why not?
posted on February 4, 2001 11:40:21 AM new
Hi luvmy2bears:
I had over 1,000 transactions with Paypal until I finally closed my account with them in November. I want nothing more to do with that horrible company.
Paypal is not a company to be trusted. They lied to everyone about "always free" instead of being honest with their users. Paypal is definitely NOT free (to sellers anyways).
Paypal changes their policies on a daily basis to fit their needs for any given day.
You are NOT safe as a buyer even when buying from a "premiere" or "verified" Paypal seller. They promise "guarantees" but do not follow through.
They can freeze your accounts for any number of reasons. They will freeze your account if you pay a seller who had another buyer who paid with a stolen credit card. I know of SEVERAL people who have had their accounts frozen. They were also still allowed to receive payments from their buyers but were not allowed to take their money out.
I've heard they are also reported to the Better Business Bureau over 40 times every month with complaints.
There are probably a zillion more reasons not to use them - but this is more than enough for me!
posted on February 4, 2001 11:44:52 AM new
I started doing paypal about 3 months ago (had too many buyer requests) and have no problem with them except for the time they "froze my account" with no explanation and then "unfroze" it with an apology about some new security software that they had installed. What bothered me about this episode is that I could not take my money out for this time (5 hours or so) nor could I get anyone to answer their customer service phone during that time. This really scared me as I had a some good money in there. Currently I cash it out whenever it gets to $100 or so. Good luck
posted on February 4, 2001 11:47:46 AM new
YES You should accept PAYPAL
JUST BE CAREFUL.
I have been buying and selling onebay for over 3 years.
Now I wont even bother to bid unless PAYPAL is accepted.
Some people flame Paypal for fees lack of support etc but few other sites offer that.
I lost $2000 by Paypal but it was as much my stupidity as it was Paypal's fault.
As a seller it saves time and money.
BILLPOINT costs much more with deposit fees etc.
I'm sure some may disagree but it is a necessary evil.
Joe B
JRB3 Is my ebay id
posted on February 4, 2001 11:54:03 AM new
I have used PayPal for about a year and the only problem I have had was a time that they had software troubles and I couldn't access my money. I don't leave more then $100.00 there and that is so that I can use it to pay for an auction if I want to. As a seller I like the service for its swiftness.
posted on February 4, 2001 12:10:56 PM new
I have been doing on line auctions since last summer and got a paypal account very early. Of course I liked it better when it was free, but it isn't free anymore and thats life. I like to be able to accept credit cards because it is less hassle for me and transactions go quicker. I love to use paypal to pay for things I buy because its quick, easy, convenient, and I tend not to forget to pay for stuff when paypal is offered. Going out to buy a money order, filling it out and mailing it is a great big pain in the rear for me. When I first started selling, and money accumulated in paypal I transferred it to my bank right away because I needed the money, thats why I started selling. Things are better for me now, paypal is paying me money market interest, I still buy things and use paypal when I can, so I tend to just let the money sit there, I have around $400 sitting there now. If the balance got a lot bigger and I wasn't planning on bidding on something expensive I would probably transfer it. Nothing is guaranteed safe, as a lot of savings and loan depositors found out a few years ago, but I am not afraid of losing my money in paypal, call me naive. I like paypal, as a seller its worth what it costs me. Having fees does mean that really inexpensive items may not be profitable, but at least multiple winners of inexpensive items can pay for all in one transaction with one fee, where billpoint is set up to invoice each individual item with a fee for each, and paypal is much better in that respect.
posted on February 4, 2001 12:31:17 PM new
jrb3..... can I ask how you lost $2000. That would definately scare me away. But you said that it was also your fault. What ever you did, I want to be sure not to do it too!
I sell under 2 different user id's at ebay. Under my other id I don't take PayPal. Just as a test I guess. I wanted to see how it would affect my sales. I listed 5 items, all ending today. At this point, only 2 even have bids. And these are items that have always sold for me. I have never had an auction for one end without bids yet. So it really does seem be turning bidders away.
But at the same time, it really isn't worth it to me to use them because people want it, and then make some mistake and lose my money.
posted on February 4, 2001 01:50:29 PM new
I take PayPal as a seller, and use it enthusiastically as a buyer. I've had the service for about six months with no problems, but I certainly have read about others' disasters.
Here's what I do to feel safe. I keep the balance low (usually under $100). I use the excess in the account for my own purchases or I have them transfer the funds to my bank account. I have a separate bank account for my eBay business, and never leave more than a couple of hundred dollars in it. So even if PayPal freezes my PayPal account AND attempts to withdraw money from my [attached] checking account, there isn't going to be very much for them to get their hands on.
Note that most of my sales are well under $50, so these security precautions work well for me. If you are selling high-end items and regularly accept large PayPal payments (or transfer large amounts to your attached checking account), you'll need to develop other means of protection.
I've been very satisfied with PayPal, despite the scary stories I've read. But I have taken precautions to protect myself "just in case." I really don't see how sellers can avoid using some kind of electronic payment method these days...they lose buyers, IMO, if they won't, in effect, take credit cards or electronic checks. Yes, there are lots of other options, but PayPal is the first and largest, and has the most name recognition.
Most buyers don't know and don't care about potential problems for sellers. I know that some people are attempting to educate buyers about these hazards in their auctions and EOAs, but I feel that is a potentially business-losing distraction when you've got an eager buyer just about on the hook. I prefer to deal with the issues in my own way and leave the buyer free to concentrate on spending his or her money on my auctions.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:08:06 PM new
I have used paypal as both a buyer and seller for about 9 months now. I have had no problems and my safeguards are about the same as Sonsie.
I keep my account below $50.00. I transfer into a special bank account that is just for that. That bank account has a balance of $5.00 at all times. As soon as my paypal deposit is there, I transfer it out to my regular account.
I don't mind paying fees for services that I receive. We charge for our services, everyone does in todays world.
They cannot freeze your high dollar account if you don't let the balance reach that high.
They cannot attach your bank account if there is nothing or very little to attach.
The safeguards I have placed do not make me invincible against the problems, it just gives me more control over how inconvenienced I will be.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:08:19 PM new
I used Paypal for a while; but have decided that their questionable business practices and/or bumbling made me far too uneasy about continuing, especially once they demanded permission to access my bank account. Also I *definitely* want the option to be able to refuse any payment, and Paypal simply did not allow that.
I believe it's become essential to offer credit card service to remain profitable. And so I now offer Billpoint, which is no more costly to me that Paypal and seems to be a somewhat more professional organization.
I find this "brand loyalty" to Paypal among buyers most curious. I can understand why you want to pay via credit card; but why does it matter who processes the charge? Do you ask the cashier at your local department store which processer they use?
posted on February 4, 2001 02:12:06 PM new
LUVMY2BEARS - Your second id, what is the feedback on it? Perhaps bidders are reluctant if that id has lower feedback.
I've recently gone over 300 fb, and I've noticed a surge in bidding. (Or maybe it's my imagination.?
posted on February 4, 2001 02:15:38 PM new
I've used Paypal for about 9 months as a seller and buyer. I like it very much but I don't feel comepletely safe either. I haven't had any of the problems that I've read about. So far, the benefits far outweigh the disadvantages of using Paypal. I also offer Paypal on my website along with Billpoint as they are a lot cheaper than a merchant account. I can understand Paypal charging for receiving credit card payments, but I can not understand why they charge me for recieving payments from the balance in someone's Paypal acount where no credit card is involved. Also, in another post, someone mentioned the possibility of Paypal getting into your checking account. They don't need to if you have a credit card registered with them. I read on their website that if they needed to do a charge-back against the seller, the would charge your credit card. I constantly worry about what could happen, but so far, I feel my buisness is better with it than without it.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:18:43 PM new
I've used PayPal for just over a year. I've accepted thousands with it. I use the Money Market account and I've received their ATM/debit card and I've just made use of that tool.
PayPal works for me, but I understand how it works and how to use it. For me it is a very versatile tool for buying, selling, transferring funds, etc. Don't use PayPal if you aren't comfortable with it and if you do use it take the time to understand how it works. Separate the facts from the rumors (there are a lot of rumors) and make your own decision.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:22:17 PM new
Unless you sell something really unique, expect to miss out on many many bids.
I'm one of those bidders who look for sellers accepting PayPal. It's too easy, too fast. If I find something I like and the seller does not accept PayPal, I go on to the next seller.
As a seller, I've accepted well over $5000 through PayPal. Never a problem. I keep my account under $100. Transfers are quick... my account has never been frozen... Never had to call customer service.
"My possessions are causing me suspicion." - Neil Finn
posted on February 4, 2001 02:26:59 PM new
It's fast and it's easy for me, as both a buyer and a seller.
I am thrilled to get the email that I've got cash, it means someone paid me, that's one less deadbeat to worry about.
As a buyer, I wont bid on someone's auctions if they dont take PayPal. If I read the entire auction and see "No PayPal" or "I only take money orders" I back out of the auction and move on somewhere else, even if it means paying a couple of extra dollars. It's convenience.
Of course, if I didn't have a PayPal account I'd probably save a heck of a lot of money because i think it's a big hassle to get money orders.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:29:28 PM new
For all of you who "back out of an auction if it doesn't take Paypal" - what if that seller offered about 10 other payment methods - several being online credit card services such as Billpoint, PayDirect, etc. You still wouldn't bid???
Do you feel that it's your way of "punishing" the seller for not wanting to risk the problems that Paypal offers?
posted on February 4, 2001 02:36:54 PM new
Um, no. PayPal is what is easiest for me. BidPay makes me pay $5.00 to send a money order and I use that for a Canadian seller whom doesn't take PayPal but other than that PayPal is the only online payment service I'm signed up with and it's the one I prefer to use.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:46:27 PM newLibby ~ Have you ever used Billpoint at all? The buyer sends you an invoice and it takes about 2 clicks of your mouse to pay with Billpoint. With Paypal you have to fill in all sorts of info - auction name, item number, seller's address, yadda yadda..
With Billpoint it's already there and you just basically click "ok" and you're all set.
And, it's completely free to the buyer and MUCH safer to use than Paypal.
Not trying to argue with you - but you should consider the seller's reasoning for not accepting Paypal. Many sellers have been burnt REALLY bad with Paypal. (I am one of them).
Everyone is on the "Paypal Bandwagon" until they get burnt by them just once....
posted on February 4, 2001 03:01:00 PM new
I've ssen acouple of you mention that you have an entirely different bank account for PayPal. Why? Have they taken people's money without permission?
I ask because I only have 1 bank account. My checking account that I have had since I was 12.......
posted on February 4, 2001 03:03:20 PM new"...For all of you who "back out of an auction if it doesn't take Paypal" - what if that seller offered about 10 other payment methods - several being online credit card services such as Billpoint, PayDirect, etc. You still wouldn't bid??? "
...but why put the charge on a credit card when you have an existing PayPal balance?
I offer Billpoint and PayDirect in addition to PayPal, and PP is by far preferred by my customers. As pointed out by countless others here, don't use PP until you familiarize yourself with the system and are aware of the possible pitfalls and how to avoid them--in short, DON'T use PayPal unless you are willing to conform to the terms of the Seller Protection requirements to the letter! Don't leave anything more in your account than you can afford to lose access to for a period of time. If you make sure that each and every transaction is covered by Seller Protection, or there's a large enough balance to cover it in your PP account, you won't have to worry about them withdrawing funds from the attached checking account.
As a buyer, I'm far less comfortable with them, since their Buyer Protection doesn't amount to a hill of beans, if the seller involved knows how to play the game. I don't use PP to pay, unless the seller has an established track record on the auction site in question and he's verified with PayPal.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:03:20 PM new
I use paypal. I love it as a seller, and when I bid, I seek out Billpoint or Paypal sellers. I honestly believe that my sales are better since I began offering credit card options through Billpoint or Paypal. It's a psychological thing; folks tend to spend more if they can use their credit cards. It's like that in the real world, and I think it is the same on auctions.
When I bid, If a seller doesn't take Billpoint or Paypal, I won't bid. I don't bother with sellers that offer 10 other options to pay, if they won't take the two largest services available to eBay. Bidpay is a joke, and I laugh when I see a seller offer that as an option for domestic sales. At $5.00 for under $100.00 transaction, it's a slap in the face to bidders to send a money order that way. International sales. OK. Maybe. If a seller puts a list of payments that they WON'T take, I also back out of the auction. I don't need a political statement, and I don't need to hear about their problems with certain services.
For what it is worth, I think that the underlying reason why a lot of folks have the "I hate Paypal" attitude, is because it costs them money to use it now. Many people were perfectly happy with Paypal until they started charging sellers. I don't like that they changed their TOS, and I don't like the way things are in constant change with Paypal, but since the Internet/payment services etc. are relatively new and they are in constant change, I'm not surprised that they had to make those changes. I believe that that many people joined the “I HATE PAYPAL” bandwagon after the fees started, and instead of admitting that they quit because of the fees, they try to convince everyone that Paypal is going to freeze your account and steal all your money.
I am careful about Paypal, and Billpoint, and my personal bank accounts and credit cards.. etc.. etc.. etc… Paypal is no different than any other financial service you use, you have to be careful and you have to be smart.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:09:37 PM new
OK, well I'd better fix that then. YIKES!!!
I see alot of other payment options mentioned too. What works for you guys (& gals)?
Bidpay just seems to costly. I tried to pay for an item with it once and they wanted to charge me $5.00. I can go buy 3 money orders & mail them for that price! In fact I'd still have $1.04 left for yet another money order.
But I really don't know much about billpiont. You said that it doesn't cost the buyer anything. Does it cost the seller anything?
posted on February 4, 2001 03:18:03 PM new
Billpoint costs about the same as Paypal, except you don't get the headaches that come with Paypal.
I prefer Billpoint and PayDirect for my auctions.
igolf: You stated that all the Paypal-haters just decided to hate paypal after they decided to charge fees. If this was true, all those Paypal-haters wouldn't be accepting Billpoint, since Billpoint costs just as much as Paypal.
If you check out my other thread (Bidders don't read - part 2) you will see that I HAVE to put "I DON'T TAKE PAYPAL" in my auctions. I still get Paypal payments all the time (and I don't even have an account) but I got them even more when I DIDN'T say "NO PAYPAL" in my auctions.
I think backing out of an auction just because a seller decides to list payments that they DO and DO NOT accept is just wrong.
Isn't the purpose of bidding on auctions to get the item you WANT? Or is it just a game to see how many auctions you can pass up just because the seller mentioned payment methods that they don't accept??
posted on February 4, 2001 03:18:14 PM new
Billpoint and PayDirect both charge the seller fees, which are higher than PayPal's. Billpoint does NOT allow you to carry a balance on your account to use for purchases you make--any amount paid to you is deposited to your bank account, and their transfers take longer than "Electronic Withdrawals" with PayPal, in my experience. PayDirect does allow you to maintain an account balance, and you can have money transferred to either your verifying credit card or to your bank account. I've found few people outside Yahoo! who are familiar with it or use it regularly, though.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:24:16 PM new
PayDirect looks better to me. I like to be able to maintain a balance. It's how I save up for stuff. If it goes straight into my account, we'll spend it. We have no self control!
[ edited by luvmy2bears on Feb 4, 2001 03:25 PM ]
posted on February 4, 2001 03:25:01 PM new
I use paypal as both a buyer and a seller. I LOVE the idea of an online payment option, however I am wary because of the possible problems (many of which have been mentioned here).
As with anything, only risk what you can afford to lose.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:28:14 PM new
I have one fear with BillPoint and maybe it is an unfounded fear, but here it is. Amazon pushed its 1-Click pay service till enough buyers jumped on board, now Amazon sellers are required to offer 1-Click, they can offer other payment services, but they must offer 1-Click. I'm sure that eBay is licking their lips once BillPoint acceptance is high enough that they can also make similar requirements of US sellers.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:29:12 PM new
Executive Girl
No, I don't think it is PETTY at all to back out of an auction that doesn't accept payment services that I want to use, it's PERSONAL CHOICE.. much different.
I also don't like when I read two paragraphs about the sellers terms of service and one line about the item. It's a personal thing.
When Billpoint was first introduced, there were many, many, many negative posts on this board as well as the eBay boards about how awful Billpoint was, and how expensive it was to use compared to Paypal. (of course, at that time, paypal was free to sellers) Since Paypal began charging, I tend to see more auctions that take Billpoint. Mere coincidence????
Each bidder will form opinions about what they like to see and what they don't like to see in auctions and bid accordingly.
. Not because of any problems that I have had. But because of all that I have read here at AW.
.)
I just don't know.
