twinsoft
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posted on February 4, 2001 12:24:17 PM new
Jamie, this idea of a co-op has been kicked around for a while. I was not the first to come up with it. AW has been kind enough to let us discuss the subject here, and I'd like to see us continue to do that. I'd like to be able to make a post without getting slurred. I know you are sincere and enthusiastic about a co-op and I'm sure you realize that petty squabbles are not in our best interest. There are many people who would like to contribute but simply will not participate when discussion degenerates to insults and put-downs.
A sellers co-op is an idea that will come up again at AW. We need to be able to discuss it without letting differences of opinion or rudeness dominate the discussion. Claiming I stole your idea and referring to me as "you know who" makes us all appear petty and childish. I hope we can put personal differences aside and focus on a goal which I sincerely believe we do share.
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dman3
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:03:52 PM new
Twinsoft I tend to agree with the better part of your last post here.
More then likely the Ideas of a coop of this type has been kicking around since days ebay was barely a candle of an Idea above it creators head 
I agree no one should be slurred or put down for any input they have for this Idea no matter how bad or good it is.
Most of all I think all must remember this is not a popularity contest The person to offer the most work and Ideas that are used will not win all no matter what any ones input all they will have is there one vote and only if in the end they are a paid member of the coop do they get that. no one person holds a larger stake then the smallest of sellers or buyers this is what it was all about to start with.
I have to agree that these petty squabbles will kill this frist attemp quickly.
On the other hand now that I see the Two different mesage boards started and I think of the amount of interested people that will be comeing along in the hopefully near future Im not seeing 100s of people posting on the Idea yet but I hear it is build to this level already Two board might help to make it easier to handle and steer the earily discussions of this many people.
How ever I think this group really does need Jamie and yourself to settle your differences and put them all aside for two boards to work there needs to be a way to bring all actions on both togeather so every one knows where the group stand as a whole.
Just My Opinion dont If this is Ofensive im sorry its not ment to be take it for what its worth or toss it in the trash
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
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canvid13
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:04:14 PM new
Hi all,
There's been much Co-op talk on many message boards. I am hoping that we bring in more folks and continue talking about all the facets of getting an online auction house up and alive.
Hopefully though, in a few weeks, we will be ready to vote a planning committee in place that will unite us all.
I'd like you all to post messages on any boards you wish. The point is to get us talking to each other and find as much common ground as possible!
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
Email for the url to our message board and spread the word. Let's all post our ideas here on AW and anywhere you wish! Spread the word.
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rosiebud
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posted on February 4, 2001 01:08:00 PM new
Twinsoft, I'm a little confused. I've heard you say that this whole co-op idea was your idea and now you're saying that you're not the first to come up with it? Which is it please. Please set the record straight here at AW and any other place where you may be posting that it is your idea.
Also, you want to put aside your differences and focus on a goal, yet, I've heard you say that you consider some people a fool and " use my idea to bilk eBay sellers out of $100". Hello?! I'm not even sure I've heard you appologize for making such a libelous statement. (and there's that "my idea" thing again)
There are many people who would like to contribute but simply will not participate when discussion degenerates to insults and put-downs.
You are right, there are MANY people here, who are interested in contributing..but please remember if there are any insults and/or putdowns, they've happend on BOTH sides.. not just to you.
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dman3
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:22:51 PM new
HI All
There has been some talk about live chats on this matter and many think it would be a good Idea But nothing on any matter will happen here inless some one steps in and takes the frist step so.
I have gone ahead and Opened a live chat channel
Channels Name #sellersCoop
The Channel is on IRC.ICQ.com The you can gain access to the chat room with your ICQ messanger or on the web at www.icq.com
or with any IRC chat cleint I happen to be useing MIRC but Pirch or Microsoft will both work.
to get to ICQ chat room simply type in as the server /server irc.icq.com
Once loged in ICQ server
type in /join #sellercoop to join the channel
The topic there right now is
"Live Dicussions On the forming of a Auction sellers Cooperative"
This channel has been register for the purpose of dicussion and even moderated meetings.
I will try to keep this channel Open when ever my computer is online if live discussions Develope there fine if not thats well and fine too but it is there for all who feel live one on one talk might be usefull.
I feel ICQ chat will work for all if you like java www.icq.com offer the java chat cleint on its website you can even get the code to install it on your own person web page.
You can use this chat room from any ICQ program
and you can use ICQ IRC chat rooms with MIRC Pirch and other chat clients
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com
[ edited by dman3 on Feb 4, 2001 02:46 PM ]
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nycrocker
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:29:27 PM new
Jamie:
What you're writing about breaks rules on AW. I won't discuss them here on AW.
I broke no rules on AW. You DID discuss them right here on this thread which is what I addressed in my post, as I have already pointed out. I believe if I broke the rules, a moderator would have informed me.
On another board you mentioned that you'd just come back into town and hadn't read everything.
Yes and I have spent the last 2 days reading everything and catching up, and I still feel the same way. I think it is detrimental to divide the group. But whatever... you'll do what you'll do.
All I have to do is decide whether or not it is even worth it to me to get involved in anything that looks as shaky as this does already.
Whatever....
Rocker
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twinsoft
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posted on February 4, 2001 02:35:38 PM new
Rosiebud, I was the first to raise the issue here at AW, several months ago. It has come to my attention that, according to ToyRanch, the idea was mentioned in other forums even earlier. I have no interest in "taking credit" for the idea. Who came up with it first is a non-issue.
As far as what is said at other forums, it is AW policy that we don't bring that dirt over here. There is good reason, so we don't get into he said, she said here at AW. I can't and won't address your comment other than to say that you are correct, you have not heard any apology from me. Please don't drag trash from other forums over here.
[ edited by twinsoft on Feb 4, 2001 02:37 PM ]
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rosiebud
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posted on February 4, 2001 03:14:56 PM new
twinsoft ~ gotcha! It's only 'ok' to slur, speak badly about another person, etc in one forum and then call such behavior childish and rude in another. And even better, expect to put "personal differences" aside without so much as an apology? How can you expect that? How can you expect someone to put aside the fact that you called them a fool? How can you expect them to put aside the fact that you said the word "bilk" in reference to this person's plans? Have you bothered to look up that word? It means "defraud" "cheat" "swindle".
Do you really expect, someone to put aside "personal differences" when you have spoken such ways about them? You have some nerve!
You're right Twinsoft, it is dirt and garbage. It's something that should have NEVER been spewed in the first place. Maybe, just maybe, if you want to put aside differences.. then you should offer an apology, for the things that you said about another person. Because as long as there is no apology or anything else.. you are doing nothing but HURTING the very cause that you claim to care so much about.
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joice
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posted on February 4, 2001 03:32:46 PM new
Ohboy. This is getting way to personal.
I won't lock the thread, but you may want to move your discussion to the Other Sites forum. If you don't move it, then please stick to the topic.
You know the rest,
Joice
Moderator.
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canvid13
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posted on February 4, 2001 03:56:24 PM new
Hi All,
Joice is right. The reason we've created message boards outside of AW is so that we can respect the rules here.
I urge all of us to do so as the AW boards are very useful.
In old Westerns when the boys wanted to wrasssle they were asked to step outside.
So let's oblige the barkeeps!
Look, I've stated what I want in an alternative co-op here on AW and in other message threads.
Let's forget all about this other crap because in a few months none of this "he said and she said this and that" will matter.
Come on folks. What do you want in a Co-Op alternative to Ebay??
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
Email for the url to our message board!
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morgantown
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posted on February 4, 2001 04:14:08 PM new
I went on a buying trip today, but my mind was thinking about the CoOp. It is an exciting idea, a Much Needed concept in my opionion.
Think about all the time and effort we have put into eBay. Yes, we have been selling well, and I am grateful. But a user owned CoOp site would be so much more rewarding!
There are so many talented and smart folks here and on the other boards - I know they will come togeter as a cohesive unit. This can be done!
MTown
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canvid13
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posted on February 4, 2001 05:09:03 PM new
G-R-E-A-T P-O-S-T !!!!
That's the spirit Morgantown. Spread the word and post that idea everywhere!
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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nycrocker
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posted on February 4, 2001 05:11:57 PM new
Yeah! What MTown said!!
I'm still trying to keep an open mind about it.
Jamie just so ya know, I HAVE BEEN reading your message boards too, I am trying to get every possible view on this thing.
I want it to work just as bad as you all do - sorry if I lost my temper a little bit, it's just that the splitting-apart-the-group thing is just a personal pet peeve of mine, that's all. OTOH - I don't believe in censorship either.
I still think it can be resolved. I hope so, anyway.
I am still reading (people have emailed me tons of threads and sites now LOL!), still thinking, still trying to brainstorm myself. I am the first to admit I don't have the experience or expertise in this online-auction field that most of you seem to. I'm still into the idea though, and definitely support the co-op concept. I believe it can work. I'm trying to figure out what I can do to help, too.
I have a question though for those who keep saying "it won't work" and how "no one can compete with Ebay": How did Ebay start then? If they were successful at it, why wouldn't anyone else be?? That doesn't make sense to me.
Rocker
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nycrocker
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posted on February 4, 2001 06:32:11 PM new
Everyone involved in the co-op (or MANY co-ops), please read the thread in Message Center> Other Online Auctions> COOP Auction Dreaming Wishing
Does ANYONE really think it's okay to be falsely accused and spoken to in such a disrespectful way??
Rocker
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canvid13
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posted on February 4, 2001 06:34:17 PM new
Thanks NYC: We need to find common ground and build on that. Nobody is going to remember all the crap a year from now.
Let's keep talking and sharing ideas. All the other stuff will work itself out.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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nycrocker
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posted on February 4, 2001 06:39:15 PM new
That is what I'd hoped too. But how is it going to work itself out when you just called me ignorant on another thread?
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canvid13
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posted on February 4, 2001 07:24:27 PM new
I said that you either misquoted or were ignorant. There is a differance.
If you want to work towards building a site I'd be more than happy to. I would prefer we talk about the issues of building this instead of Steve and I who both probably won't be a part of running this site.
So if you were insulted I apologize.
Now let's get to work!
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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Shadowcat
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posted on February 4, 2001 07:53:47 PM new
Who came up with the idea first doesn't matter. Egos don't matter. Personality conflicts don't matter.
What matters is that people want to try something new, something that could be a great boon to sellers and bidders alike and letting egos and slights get in the way of achieving the goal of a viable co-op will do nothing except cause it to fail.
If you two can't overcome your animosity to each other, do the co-op a big favor and get the hell out of the way so others can get the work done.
Bottom line: What is more important to you-a functioning, thriving co-op or continuing to keep lists of the insults hurled?
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canvid13
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posted on February 4, 2001 08:29:39 PM new
I agree. Frankly I don't think either of us will be around at the end.
Let's find common ground as a group and go forward. What ideas do you have Shadow cat? Tell us here and on all the boards.
Let's spread the word!
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twinsoft
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posted on February 4, 2001 08:36:29 PM new
Shadowcat, I agree with what you say, in principle. But the fact is, most people who expressed an interest in the project were gawkers. Jamie, whose ideas I disagreed with, showed more incentive than anyone else. He did something about it. That is to his credit.
It's easy for passersby to comment and criticize, but my own opinion is that unless a person is willing to pick up a shovel and do some real work, their criticisms have little weight. Yes, you can argue, "I would help, but I don't like the management." That argument is weak, because in fact most people don't want to work, they want to complain. "Get the hell out of the way" to the people who are doing the most work is not helpful.
Although Jamie and I disagree on just about everything, and so are working from different directions, he has put far more work into this than anyone. Continued ridicule and "back seat driving" are not going to get a co-op built any faster.
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canvid13
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posted on February 5, 2001 06:12:04 AM new
Hi Folks,
The only way a co-op will come to be is if the sellers and bidders want one. No one person or small group can make it happen.
We need to hear from lots of people, lots of ideas. Post them here on AW or on any of the message boards. Email each other and talk about what you want!
Hopefully we'll find enough common ground to create a safer more stable selling atmosphere than exists in the market today!
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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morgantown
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posted on February 5, 2001 09:13:36 AM new
I posted this on the CoOP name thread but want to post it here as well. I'll post on the other boards later tonight.
My offer of the domain names is unconditional - a no strings attached donation.
I was unintentionally vague about this earlier.
Lets go CoOp! Lets go CoOp!
MTown
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canvid13
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posted on February 5, 2001 12:33:51 PM new
We need more offers like this as well as talent and ideas.
Tell us what you want in a co-op or what you don't want?
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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nycrocker
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posted on February 5, 2001 12:59:01 PM new
Yay Rah Co-Op!
Let's get more ideas and posts!
Let's go around calling people "back-stabbers", "ignorant", and wrongly accuse them of misquoting, and then not even be big enough to apoligize!
Then let's pretend it never happened and go looking for more people to "work together" with!
Hoooray Co-Op!
Whooo hooooo I am such a go get 'em type o' guy!
Ugh, please. 
Back to the old drawing board...
Rocker
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canvid13
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posted on February 5, 2001 02:14:39 PM new
"Let's get more ideas and posts! "
This is called finding common ground. Let's see if we can find some more.
What do you want in an online co-op auction house?
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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canvid13
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posted on February 5, 2001 07:33:40 PM new
There was a great article from the folks at Krause's auction section about our co-op movement. You can read it there or check it out on our message board.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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morgantown
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posted on February 5, 2001 07:45:28 PM new
I'm so excited about a CoOp for on-line auctions - we all should be, as it is in our best interest.
Why can't we have a $fund drive, and pay a professional firm to come up with a design based upon our input?
Wouldn't that cut out lots of the discussions about discussions?
Just a thought...
Mtown
edited for spelling
[ edited by morgantown on Feb 5, 2001 07:46 PM ]
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canvid13
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posted on February 6, 2001 06:12:29 AM new
Hi MT:
We could, but I think we need a lot more posts and shows of support. We also need a lot more ideas.
If this is going to be a co-op of online sellers and bidders much more of them need to talk to each other about what they want.
Jamie
canvid13
[email protected]
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twinsoft
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posted on February 6, 2001 07:01:55 PM new
Morgantown, it isn't necessary to re-invent the wheel by hiring an expensive planning/legal staff. The International Co-operative Alliance (ICA) has over 750,000 members worldwide and has been in existence over 100 years. They are so big, they even have their own U.N. charter. They help establish co-ops. They could give us a lot of help and the blueprints we need. It would only be a matter of slight modification to suit our needs. Funding could come in the form of federal grants and loans.
Online co-ops will be the next big thing. The .coop top-level domain was approved by ICANN and we will be seeing lots of online co-ops coming into existance soon. Story is here. Considering the global nature of the Internet, I personally expect dot coms are on the way out, and international (trading) co-operatives to be a framework for world trade and government before the next century. I live in Silicon Valley and the mentality of start-ups is sickening. They are not built to last, most are dot "cons." The money comes from naive investors, there's often no real product.
Living in America, we are familiar only with the "corporate" ("I-Me-Mine" ) business mentality so this will take some getting used to. There are other models which can work. Getting off my soapbox now.
GratefulDad
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gordoyloco
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posted on February 7, 2001 08:39:42 AM new
hi
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