posted on February 4, 2001 03:39:57 PM newigolf: Your personal choice to use whatever payment method you prefer is not was I was questioning as being petty.
It was the fact that if a seller decides to list payments that they will NOT accept as well as those they DO accept - you said you will back out of the auction because you don't want to see the payments that seller does NOT accept. I just think that is unfair to the seller.
If they DON'T list those options, they get hounded "do you take this payment??" and then if they DO say that they don't accept that payment, you say you will back out because you don't want to see that.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:45:00 PM new
I sell a variety of collectibles (20's to present). I, by far, have had more people pay by BillPoint than I ever did when I used PayPal. I closed the PayPal account last fall and switched to BillPoint. When I first opened my PayPal account a year earlier, my checking account only had a 6 digit number (in addition to its federal routing number). New bank, managed big $$, but small account numbers. PayPal could not accept anything less than a 7 digit account number. So I had to have PayPal pay me in checks--longer delay. I switched to BillPoint--same checking account-no problem. The fees are not that much more than PayPal. I'm really surprised, however, with the volume of BP payments. I thought PayPal ruled, but that might be changing. Does the Wells Fargo FDIC insured backing that BillPoint has not matter compared to PayPal? One poster said we're missing a lot of bids if we don't accept PayPal--maybe so. I think it depends on what you sell. I think a seller in the Hot Wheels category, for example, would have a hard decision whether to drop PayPal since it seems it is used strongly by buyers in that category. I don't see it though and I was on eBay in mid 1997 when it was checks or money orders only. I've had a few PayPal buyers take note in my end of auction notice that I no longer accept PayPal as an option. They signed up with BillPoint--no complaints from them as buyers.
posted on February 4, 2001 03:48:35 PM new
Executivegirl
It is no different than backing out of an auction in which a seller gives a one line description and two paragraphs of terms. The bidder will do one of two things, read the two paragraphs and decide if they can abide by the terms, or hit the back button because they can't.
If you want me to say that I am being unfair and petty because I am choosy about why and how I bid (and which terms I choose to accept) it won't happen. I don't want to see what the seller won't do, I want to see what they WILL do! If they list payment services that I choose to use, then I might bid. Personally, I wouldn't ask them about other services, and I surely wouldn't pay by a service that wasn't listed.
As a seller, I have never had someone Pay for an auction from a service that I don't list, and I don't get emails asking me to take the "other 10 or so" payment options you have (or others) mentioned. I guess Billpoint/paypal/checks/money orders are good enough for my bidders.
[ edited by igolf on Feb 4, 2001 03:49 PM ]
posted on February 4, 2001 03:52:47 PM new
Somebody upstream asked why they should have a separate business checking account. Aside from possible problems with PayPal accessing your account, there are probably a dozen very good reasons why you should. Here are just a few.
It makes tax time so much easier, and goes a long way to proving you are a real business should the IRS decide that you might not be.
It makes daily recordkeeping a lot easier, whether you are worried about the tax consequences or not.
Most people have access to at least one bank that offers free checking or a very reduced cost for an account (particularly if you already have a banking presence there). I have two separate businesses, and two separate business accounts...plus the family checking account for personal expenditures. They are all free.
Many of you think you're just doing a little selling on the side, don't plan to deal with taxes because you're not a business, and so forth. As soon as I had run through my personal items to sell, and started buying stuff to resell on eBay, I knew I had a business on my hands and have acted accordingly. The extra tax deductions make the bookkeeping hassles well worth while. Think about it.
If I sold on a much smaller scale I probably wouldn't get those hounding emails all the time either. But I sell hundreds of items weekly and deal with hundreds of customers weekly. I get "do you take Paypal?" almost every single day - whether or not my auctions state that I don't accept it. I have noticed a slight decrease since I have the NO PAYPAL logo on my auctions. I have also NOT noticed a decrease in my sales since I do offer at least 8 other methods of payments, most being online methods.
The only thing I'm trying to accomplish here is for buyers to give sellers a little break. Many of us don't take checks - because we've been burned so many times with bounced checks. Many of us don't take Paypal because we've been screwed over by them so many times. At one time we were Paypal-happy too, until something bad happened to us and we found out what kind of company Paypal REALLY is. I believe that everyone here who is Paypal happy will only be that until Paypal screws you over like they did us. THEN, you will see what we are talking about.
posted on February 4, 2001 04:00:23 PM new
As a buyer, I don't like the seller's TOS to take up twice as much space as the description of the item. It's intimidating and uncomfortable to be confronted with a long list of do's and don'ts when all I want to do is give this person my money.
However, I buy almost exclusively in a very small niche market of collectibles, and I am forced to deal with whoever has got the goods, so to speak. There are simply not very many people selling what I want to buy!
I will back out of a seller's page, though, when the terms are just too outlandish. I passed on an item I really wanted because the seller was charging $6.00 to mail an item that weighed about 2 ounces...and didn't even specify that it was going priority mail! I've sold and shipped several of these items and know perfectly well that first class postage is under a buck. Even adding the cost of insurance and packing materials (which amount to some bubble wrap or a padded envelope), there is no way I'm going to pay that exhorbitant amount for shipping.
I will also exit quickly when the seller seems focused on fraud prevention and punishment rather than presenting items for sale. Threats about negative feedback in big red letters are a real turnoff...far more than having to deal with a money order, or writing a check, instead of using PayPal.
As a seller, I want to make it as easy and fun for the buyer as I possibly can. PayPal helps me achieve this goal. I don't "punish" sellers who don't use it, but its absence makes me think twice about buying that item.
posted on February 4, 2001 04:05:45 PM new
Sonsie ~
I agree about terms being longer than the description, and the "attitude" of the seller's auctions.
My descriptions are quite lengthy, because I give any and all details about my items. IF there are any flaws, they are noted. Measurements of EVERYTHING is included.
My auctions *barely* have a TOS at all. It states something like:
1)All sales final
2)Payment is required within 10 days
3)NY residents pay sales tax
That's it.
I do have a table listing all payments I accept (about 8), and at the bottom is a NO PAYPAL logo and it states that I'm sorry but I do not accept Paypal.
To think that someone would back out of an auction for that reason alone just amazes me.
posted on February 4, 2001 04:54:47 PM new
Because Paypal did such a great viral marketing job, using us to spread the word and because very few of our bidders come here and learn the down side, you are punishing yourself if you don't accept Paypal. However, your goal should be to 1) keep yourself safe and 2) steer your customers toward a safer payment service. I set up a page Using Paypal Safely which lets you accomplish these goals. My auctions say "Free credit card payment with Western Union's Moneyzap. Free electronic payment with Achex. Paypal non credit card payments only." EOA to the customer says this as well as "I dont recommend Paypal because it is unsafe. For more info, read Paypal Page. If you insist on using PP anyway, you must pay with a non credit card source." I went from 8-10 PP payments a week to one every two to three weeks. Most of my customers have no problem using moneyzap or achex.
posted on February 4, 2001 05:09:35 PM new
EXECUTIVEGIRL, I don't not buy something if the person doesn't offer PayPal (but I think somebody else said they did). I can't afford to be that picky since what I do buy is so scarce. I've used a couple of other electronic payment methods when sellers have offered them, but I won't use anything that costs me money since I can write a check for free. I'm not real familiar with other services, but don't many of them charge the buyer a fee of some sort? If so, that would be a turnoff to anybody who isn't international (and who needs the special service).
posted on February 4, 2001 05:10:38 PM new
I recently had someone fraudulently attempt to use my paypal account (NOT paypal's fault) and Paypal froze the account because there were repeated attempts to charge that were denied. Not knowing about all this until the bad guys were long gone, I then had to deal with Paypal to get my account un-frozen for normal use. Ihad auctions ending within 72 hours and I was very concerned that those payments would be made before I could contact my winners and would thus go into the black hole of Paypal's restricted zone, preventing me from paying my bills while I would still be responsible for sending out the merchandise. I had a very hard time reaching Paypal, getting them to understand the problem, getting them to pay attention to it, getting them to lift the restriction---etc. It was a huge hassle and took up the better part of two afternoons on the telephone before it was straightened out. Luckily no more payments went in to the restricted account in the meantime and all was well. But this experience (after almost a year of 100% positive paypal experiences and hundreds, maybe over 1000 dollars sent through the account as both a buyer and a seller) showed me that you MUST be careful with them, monitor your account for false charges, make sure you transfer money out quickly and into a secondary bank account, etc. I was doing all that before as a precaution, but now I am doubly vigilant. They are not as problem-free as they appear to be when everything's going good.
Paypal needs desperately to work on their customer contact skills and begin accepting the fact that they are not dealing with widgets, they're dealing with money and because of that they need a faster response time and more CS reps than they have.
I decided not to close my account, but I won't be signing up for the debit card as I had planned to, nor do I encourage my customers to use it anymore with logos etc.
posted on February 4, 2001 05:16:49 PM new
Sonsie ~ I was not referring to you when I mentioned that someone would NOT bid on an auction just because it said NO PAYPAL. I can understand a buyer not wanting to pay to use their credit card or to use an online payment method. Some of the methods I offer do not cost the buyer ANYTHING. Billpoint, PayDirect, Ecount, Achex, and currently MoneyZap are all entirely free to the buyer.
posted on February 4, 2001 06:28:16 PM new
Executivegirl,
You certainly are concerned if someone might "back out" of an auction because of personal preferences. I realize that you are sensitive about the Paypal issue, and from your posts, you appear to be uncomfortable with the chance that someone might not bid on your auctions because of the paypal issue.
Well... someone might not bid on an auction for any number of reasons.. Feedback, for example, is an important element. Some bidders won't bid if there are ANY negs, while others will weigh the number and bid accordingly. (Personally, I look at how the seller RESPONDS to negatives, if they are constantly trying to point the blame away from themselves and they have, say one per hundred or so, I wouldn't bid)
Someone else may not bid if the seller doesn't accept checks. Another bidder may only bid from sellers with over XXX amount of feedback. Some won't bid if there is a handling fee. The list goes on. Every single person on eBay will make value judgements based on preconceived ideas and values and there is nothing you or I can do to change that. They bid when they feel comfortable with the seller, the merchandise, the price, the shipping charges, the payment methods....
and so on and so on....
posted on February 4, 2001 08:42:50 PM new
I like PayPal to use as a buyer and a seller. I haven't had any problems with it, but then again, I also keep the balance under a $100. As a seller I also accept Billpoint, and yes that is easy and convienent as well. Bidpay is another option I list. Yes, five bucks is expensive, but its much better than forgetting to buy a money order when I go to the store. I've used it myself, albeit only a couple of times when I found something I dearly wanted and the seller did not accept PayPal or Billpoint.
posted on February 4, 2001 09:51:28 PM new
For those of you sellers who are using Paypal "safely" by keeping your balance low... What will you do if Paypal perceives a problem - not of your making - and freezes your account (does not allow you to close it NOR to withdraw), but does allow funds to continue to flow into it? You cannot refuse funds flowing in, and your customers will never understand that it's Paypal - not you - that is the holdup.
Sounds to me like a real recipe for disaster!
I've had one or two buyers who dressed me down for not accepting Paypal. I'd really rather not deal with such childish individuals anyway!
posted on February 5, 2001 06:30:34 AM new
Paypal's fees are too high for the seller, especially if you sell high-priced items. My 'research' shows that the following three services are viable alternatives which are just as quick as paypal but even safer and cheaper for the seller and buyer:
1. www.moneyzap.com
2. www.achex.com
(":
[ edited by smoothauction on Feb 5, 2001 06:32 AM ]
[ edited by smoothauction on Feb 5, 2001 06:34 AM ]
posted on February 5, 2001 06:39:16 AM new
>>For those of you sellers who are using Paypal "safely" by keeping your balance low... What will you do if Paypal perceives a problem - not of your making - and freezes your account (does not allow you to close it NOR to withdraw), but does allow funds to continue to flow into it? You cannot refuse funds flowing in, and your customers will never understand that it's Paypal - not you -that is the holdup. <<
This is exactly why I don't recommend PP. I laugh every time I see one of those cheerleading posts that say "I have been using PP without a problem and will continue to do so unless something happens." By the time something happens, it is too late. YOU are the one who will have the angry customers and the negs ruining your ratings. It's like saying "I always drive without a seat belt and will continue to do so until something happens."
My definition of PP safety is: 1) Discourage your customers from using PP and explain why. You can link to my page if you want. 2) If they insist on using it, accept non CC payments only. Customers will not be able to go to their CC company and make false charge backs. 3) use a different email for PP than for your auctions. Even change it once in a while. Customers can not send you payments until AFTER you have sent them an EOA with the correct ID. 4) Empty your PP account often. Do not allow funds to pile up. 5) check your bank account regularly. If PP tries to do a reversal, you can stop it. The worst that can happen now is PP freezes your account with little to no money in it. If a customer pays you after your account is frozen, just tell the customer what PP did and suggest they do a charge back. Make it their problem and PP's problem - not yours. Since I only get about one PP payment every 3 weeks and most of my customers are quite happy to switch to Moneyzap and Achex, I believe I have very little to worry about.
posted on February 5, 2001 11:39:24 AM new
I wouldn't worry about threats of people not bidding because you don't have Paypal on your auction. I think there's just as many people who don't want to pay by credit card for whatever reason. I can't beg many people to use Paypal, and I think younger bidders might not (these days) have a credit card. I'm considering at the very least minimizing Paypal because it's a convenience, but not something I definitely need. If you sell unique items, or good bargains, people will bid regardless.
posted on February 5, 2001 02:33:22 PM new
ExecutiveGirl,
I'm with you. When I go into a B&M store I like to use my American Express card. But not everyone takes it. Is that a problem for me? NO way that is what Mastercard and Discover are for. You need to be flexible in this world nowadays to succeed. If I want it you bet I will find a way to get it especially if the price is right.
If someone needed a new roof and found out the company they were about to hire had many complaints filed against them with the BBB, I would think they would not hire them. But when it comes to Paypal people seem to think its perfectly acceptable to have an unfavorable reputation and still do business with them. This amazes me!
I only offer Paydirect for credit cards and if people want it bad enough they will sign up for it. The biggest reason why people would rather use Paypal is the fact that they don't want to take the time to sign up for another online service and not the fact that they love Paypal.
