posted on February 7, 2001 05:20:32 PM new
--sorry Pokey. My mother must have taught me better street sense than yours...cause I know when I realize I'm being taken for a ride---I don't tend to stay in the car.
You are all suffering from some sort of 'Auction Mindset Disease'---which causes you to chant the mantra "You pushed the Bid Button--I Can Do Whatever I want---cause you didn't ask before the auction ended----hahahahahahahahaha (evil laugh)"
posted on February 7, 2001 06:00:49 PM new
I HATE WHEN BIDDERS TRY TO FORCE ME TO LOWER MY SHIPPING RATES! All the time I get bidders saying "Well, a CD is only $1.21 to ship so I am only going to send $1.21 instead of the $2.99 your asking). When people like Bridgette go out and make it acceptable for bidders to do that to people like me, that is screwed up!
YES, TO SHIP A CD IS $1.21. That is not including the $0.25 for the package. That is not including my gas and time sitting at the post office. That is not including the fees I pay to Stamps.com just so I can ensure that the package arrives. Nor is it including the ink or the lables I buy to make sure that the address is clear to avoid it being shiped to the wrong place! That is also not including the Certificate Of Mailing that I send with all my items (if you don't use a COM, you need to start using it!!!)
Anyway, I have my shipping rate the way it is because it covers all my costs with shipping an item. Packaging is not free, neither are lables, ink, etc. No one should have the right to make someone on eBay force a seller to lower their shipping rates as they have no idea what we are spending!
Also, when I don't trust a bidder who buys multiple items, I have it so the package is trackable and so they have to sign for it. I have noticed sometimes bidders will win a lot of things and won't want to pay an extra $2 for insurance. So, I put it on anyway just in case they want to pretend they did not get their items or something.
I don't know the seller and maybe he was a jerk. But, you should have read the terms before bidding either way. That is not fair to the seller that you caused these kind of problems just because you felt his shipping was unfair. That is also not fair to all of us honest sellers on eBay who have to put up with bidders who try to force us to change our shipping rates. As I said, maybe he was a jerk, but once you sensor one thing, everything is sensored; i.e. once you force a shipping rate on a seller, all sellers, even honest sellers will forced to change their rates too.
posted on February 7, 2001 06:38:53 PM new
zazz: I AM street sense in the truest form of the word...
On the street, and in MY house, when you give your word, or you enter into a contract that DID layout all costs in black and white...
YOU HONOR THAT.
It's called being a honest, trustworthy, and reliable person that deserves repect.
If you ordered a pizza, and on the menu it said "Delivery charge is $1.00"...
do you order it, wait for the order to be prepared, and ready to leave the shop before you call up and say, "oh, by the way, "I" decided that I will only pay you 50 cents for delivery, or I will call the cops".
A silly example yes, but EXACTLY the same thing this bidder did.
Ignorance of someones TOS and CLEARLY DEFINED shipping rates are no excuse.
I am trying to convey that while the seller may have been a total jerk, and may have been totally unreasonable with his costs, that he WAS still in the right as far as having the costs listed.
The bidder did not do their part.
I DO understand those of you that are seeing only the "cost" factor, but I am talking about the "responsibility" factor.
zazz: I want to know...would you, or would you not have contacted the seller prior to bidding on this auction for the entire lot, and asked if shipping would be combined...
I already know the answer, because anyone with any sense would.
posted on February 7, 2001 06:51:32 PM new
I would have to agree that pocono has factually described the bidder as a deadbeat. Period. As far as the sellers e-mails of course they are inexscusable. However the seller may have been just a tad INSULTED don't you think when the bidder emailed him/her at auctions end saying the were not going to abide by the TOS then report him to safeharbour unless the seller agreed to the bidders extortion attempts! Because that it was, to try to coerce the seller out of the agreed upon price with threats of retailation. Sounds to me like the seller DID try to work with the bidder by offering a reduced shipping cost, which he/she was nder no obligation to do at all. The bidder then continued to threaten the seller with bieng reported to safeharbour unless the seller agreed to whatever price the bidder wnated? Sorry folks, this is extortion! What I really find funny is the bidder complains in one post about an old neg they got from a guy who "had a fit" when they realised they hadn't read the auction description properly and wanted thier money back even after they admitted they made an error. The poster still remembers this Deadbeat from an OLD NEG and I bet is still ticked off about it! But doesn't see the Irony in slamming this seller. as far as the shipping, I do not find it unreasonable at all to expect a buyer to pay the exact shipping/handling as stated in the auction. I see no difference between this and if the bidder had decided the BID was excessive and demanded to pay less. The seller just may have reached the end of his rope with DEADBEATS like the poster and finally snapped when being threatened/extorted by
the bidder.
posted on February 7, 2001 06:59:04 PM new
Wow...
Brigette, I am glad he got nuked.
Sorry to see the failure to see how that can sour many potential customers.
It's one thing to email a seller and tell him what shipping should be and a clear case of fee avoidance.
Moderator, I am saddened to see the blatently rude reply stand. Calling a the initiator a deadbeat is beyond the pale. She knew a rip off when she saw it.
Besides how many other folks are getting ripped off by that kind of seller and never come back to ebay, even on fair and honest auctions?
Riddle me that one Batman?
posted on February 7, 2001 07:06:24 PM new
Well if you are referring to me as insulting the initiator for correctly describing them as a deadbeat . I suposse you could substitute "non-paying bidder" for the protions of the post you find insulting.
posted on February 7, 2001 07:16:02 PM new
Let's put ourselves in the sellers shoes here. you have sucessfully closed auction for a super wigdet with bells and whistles. The shipping stated is $10 bucks
the winner emails you stating they will only pay a "reasonalble" $5 bucks. You offer $7.50. They respond that unless you agree to thier "offer" of $5 bucks. You will be "reported for fraud" and "negged" . Personally I would view this as an attempt at extortion by the bidder and I believe any seller who was put in this situation would so too.
posted on February 7, 2001 07:16:49 PM new
"it is an offer to enter into a contract on those terms. Buyer may not agree, and a contract would not come to exist."
And when the buyer places the bid he has agreeed to the terms of the contract.
posted on February 7, 2001 07:28:16 PM new
Look..it's not the same thing.
I always email ahead to arrive at shipping costs before I bid.
This way if they change there mind, I have an email to protect me.
I never email sellers and suggest shipping methods or costs.
But the $25 shipping is a indicative of a seller who didn't get the price he wanted and is padding the bill.
If the seller doesn't have terms in the auction, then there is nothing in the contract to protect seller or buyer when it comes to shipping terms.
No one is addressing the issue I mentioned: The number of ripped off bidders who are heading off to more reliable waters.
Unless you have pulled that kind of slim maneuver over on a bidder, all sellers should be ashamed of that kind of seller, it does nothing to enhance a bidders ebay experience.
I tell you, the "bidding is low" threads are long and tiresome when no one wants to ensure safety for customers.
Amy as usual you are correct, it's just that bidders aren't always sophisticated enough to understand rudimentary contract law.
posted on February 7, 2001 07:41:58 PM new
cap: The point here is, that the seller DID have the shipping costs CLEARLY POSTED, and on top of that, he even REDUCED his LISTED shipping costs for this bidder by $11.00+...
She was STILL not satisfied, and wanted the seller to ship for what SHE decided it should be, and when he refused, she called in the SH hounds...
You stated cap:
I always email ahead to arrive at shipping costs before I bid.
posted on February 7, 2001 07:53:36 PM new
Capriole...I would agree that the seller didn't get what he wanted and was padding the bill IF...the shipping amount had not been stated up front or IF...the seller had stated in the ad that if a buyer won multiple items in the dutch auction (which this was) he would give a break on the shipping.
But neither of those situations occurred. This was a dutch auction in which the shipping was stated as $2.50. Considering the costs of shipping supplies and the cost of postage, the $2.50 was not fee avoidance nor was it a seller trying to rip people off. The $2.50 was a reasonable s/h charge for the item and the seller wasn't using the fees to make an extra profit.
Its hard to believe the seller planned to have one person win all the items he listed so there is no way anyone can say this seller set out to rip anybody off when he listed his auction...he did not set out to commit "fee avoidance".
The problem occurred when one bidder wanted all the items and she did not ask first, before bidding, if the shipping charge would be $2.50 per item or would he (the seller) agree to a lower shipping if she won them all. This type of behavior I can understand from someone who is new to ebay and is learning the ropes, but the buyer here, from her own statement, is an "experienced" ebayer. She should have known better!
What I see here is a buyer who forgot how to be a careful and when she realized that her carelessness was going to cost her money she overeacted. We don't know what her demeanor was when she approached this seller as we have not seen the emails nor have we heard the sellers side of the story.
If she had just told the seller she wanted to back out of the deal because she had misunderstood the shipping terms he might have agreed. He did originally lower the shipping cost almost 30% so it seems that at first he was willing to work with her. So why did he all of a sudden turn into a foul maniac? Could it have anything to do with how she acted towards him?
posted on February 7, 2001 07:59:56 PM new
Pocono I mean I won your auction for widget X. I will give you a "reasonable" $5 bucks shipping. If you don't agree I'll report you for fraud.
posted on February 7, 2001 08:03:44 PM new
No deal, you rip-off artist you, how dare you try to hold me to the auction terms! I think I will now report you then SLAM you on this posting board!
posted on February 7, 2001 08:09:38 PM new
You have foiled my plan....
I had listed this dutch auction with the hopes of only ONE bidder winning all of the 15 items listed, so that I could commit my fraud upon them, and send them nasty emails...
posted on February 7, 2001 08:21:40 PM new
seriously, what I find sad here is the number of posters here who failed to identify which party in the auction committed the Fraud.
posted on February 7, 2001 08:26:33 PM new
I know dogg...I know...
I only wish that we could hear the other side of the story, as this one seems to have changed half way through, after the acholades failed to come...sometimes sympathy gains more allies...
Once more with feeling: Please address the topic, not the individual. If this thread continues down the unproductive path it's on now, I will have no choice but to lock it.
posted on February 7, 2001 08:46:58 PM new
I was looking at several auctions last week, all from one seller, and each listing said "Shipping $2". Since I was interested in three items but was unsure about what the shipping charge would be if I won all three, I emailed the seller and asked-
"Do you combine multiple winning bids for shipping or is the cost $2 for each widget won? Thanks."
I received a prompt reply-
"Hi, Yes it's always Combined Shipping Costs. I forgot to Put It In The
Description- sorry. Tom"
So I bid on and won three items, and the shipping was $2 for all. It's really not that hard.
posted on February 7, 2001 09:13:14 PM new
Gee... I cannot believe that so many people are using so much of their valueable selling time on me.
Pocono... I'll tell you what I'll make sure you get to hit the last nail into my coffin after all those nasty things the seller said me come true. I'll I can say is I am glad It was not you I was trying to buying from. It seems like any bidder's legit reason not to pay is NOT good enough for you. Let's hope I don't get killed in a car accident.
I hope you find peace with yourself soon. Maybe you need a break from eBay for a while? It seems to really stress you out.
[ edited by brigette on Feb 7, 2001 10:20 PM ]
