posted on March 4, 2001 10:22:22 AM new
Sheesh! Gotta love it Marty....
Posting information from another thread in the Services forum, providing a response to questions that have been answered here is "disruptive"???? I am an information officer, I provide information.
Disruptive? I don't think so... Disturbing? Very....
Or is this because I had the audacity to ASK why my posts in the Services forum were WOMD? I don't advertise other service, I just happen to be critical of what AW is doing and how they are doing it.
After reading Marty's reply, I expect this thread to be locked any minute now...
So, guys and gals, in order to keep threads going, you MUST be constructive. You may ONLY discuss the issue of fees in the Service's forum (even though the questions asked there don't get answered for a very long time). Despite the discipline enforced here to confine discussion to a single thread, it appears that is apparently insufficient and now there will be a clampdown on ALL discussion of the new fees here.
posted on March 4, 2001 11:16:53 AM new
Thank you. I hope that AW will be as gracious in acknowledging it may have made a mistake on how it intends to administer refunds for FVF for NPB.
posted on March 4, 2001 11:43:41 AM new
mulberry912, I appreciate your education and your marketing experience, but I highly doubt you have insight into web based ad sales. The web is not television, it is not print media. The effectiveness of banner ads are declining on a monthly basis, and as evidence of this I point again to yahoo's forward looking statements. Advertisers on the web are realizing it's difficult to get value out of a web based campaign, and the price they're willing to pay is in the sewers.
Here's a good article-
http://news.cnet.com/news/0-1005-200-4964746.html
A quote from it-
"The [ad] market was further hobbled by an overall slowdown in ad spending later in the year, along with disgruntlement about the shrinking performance of the ad banner. Cutbacks in earnings estimates at Internet companies such as Yahoo also showed that the earlier swells of advertising dollars had run aground."
On your other point-
"The more people that use AW to launch their auctions, the more $$$ AW can charge for their valuable advertising space"
And all I'm betting on is that the cost to AW to support that single user is much more than the value that user represents on the ad front.
posted on March 4, 2001 11:49:18 AM new
BOB: I think most of us understand that AW is a business and is entitled to charge for their services. I believe most of us would pay a higher Per listing Fee. Please, just in case I missed it, Explain why you feel they are entitled to a FVF as well.......Well, I my last auction through AW closes on the 7th, I will wait until the 8th to list anything else. I've pretty much just been lurking here on since about the second day of AW's fee announcement, I left my opinions here then. I was hoping AW might see the error of it's ways and at least do away with the FVF idea but it doesn't look like they will, frankly the whole thing has left such a bad taste in my mouth , now I don't think it would make any difference, I'd leave anyway. NO I am not looking for another service either. I will do without the convenience and upload my own pics and I will just list through ebay, I can create fancy pages myself if I so choose. The only thing I cannot do is Delay my launches....I'll live. Too Bad, I'd have paid a per listing fee and judging from the posts here, I'd say about 75 percent of those who are leaving would have too.......
[ edited by grandmarosie on Mar 4, 2001 11:54 AM ]
posted on March 4, 2001 11:59:44 AM new
I betcha AW kills the 1% fee. I betcha they put it there on purpose to see the response and test the waters to the 5 cent fee.
And I betcha everyone will smile after they remove the 1% fee and list their brains out.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:00:24 PM new
I've never stated I think they're entitled to a final value fee, don't put words in my mouth. For the record I've stated I am not continuing to use AW services. My issue is simple though- they have a right to ask for whatever they feel their services are worth.
If you object to them, then don't pay. But to endlessly #*!@ and moan about it serves no purpose to them, me you or anyone else.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:10:45 PM new
bob said: "The web is not television, it is not print media. The effectiveness of banner ads are declining on a monthly basis, and as evidence of this I point again to yahoo's forward looking statements. Advertisers on the web are realizing it's difficult to get value out of a web based campaign, and the price they're willing to pay is in the sewers."
IMO, much of the problem with web-based advertising is that advertisers expect different (and unrealistic) things from their online ad campaign.
I doubt that many people watching their favorite sitcom get up and go buy an Explorer when the Ford commercial comes on, but that is exactly what advertisers expect from a banner ad. A buyer looking at antiques & collectibles on our site is expected to stop doing that and click on a banner ad for company XYZ and start looking for a car on their web site. People don't work that way.
I doubt that print or TV advertising is much more effective than web advertising, but web advertising is easy to precisely measure, and the clickthrough is all that counts to an advertiser. I imagine advertisers would feel very different if they knew precisely how many people channel surf or take a leak when the expensive (and supposedly more effective) TV commercials come on.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:11:18 PM new
What a great place to vent...Bob maybe there would be less out in the public..if there were more situations like this to vent in.
In large part, these are people that like the AW services and wish to continue to use them. Do you think maybe, just maybe, this is an effort to convince AW to remove the FVF? I doubt AW would think it an improvement if they all just walked.
I do in fact have experience in web based sales. Web based sales made up about 42% of my business applications in which my particular expertise evolved. I suggest you just sit back and watch AW falter within 10 months. That will be all the prrof I need to justify my statement
posted on March 4, 2001 12:30:13 PM new
Hey Tokester, how are ya?
Mercenanow...AC does not have his addy updated. Might want to contact him again. And me too.
Who is the head of marketing and costomer services at AW. They could probably clarify things a lot...would not make us guess at everything and actually show some respect for us...their users.
In addition, they could listen to a few concerns and comments we have.
I don't expect this to happen, but I like letting Mark know what he oughtta be doing every now and again. Keeps him on his toes.
**Disclaimer: If I appear arguementive, then I probably am just being a #*!@ today. It comes & goes. C.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:36:06 PM new
toke, I think AW is taking a wait and see attitude. One thing I've always noted (and why I usually don't participate on these forums, to be honest) is that people will post to complain but are silent if all is well. I would think there are people that see the new fees, run the numbers and then sign up. Likewise, people did the opposite. The only thing AW should care about (and rightly so) are the actual number of people that sign up on the 14th. That's the prudent, business like thing to do.
Let's say AW removes the 1%, but it's at the expense of much needed revenue. How long would they stay open now that they're not meeting their revenue goals?
Anyway I'm pissing in the wind. I have experience in .com businesses but I don't know AW's situation. I can see the forest through the trees on this, though.
rubylane, your post seems very insightful to me. I assume you're rubylane.com, and you can relate to the ad issue first hand?
posted on March 4, 2001 12:43:36 PM new
Yes, Toke...the storm is expected here as well. Isn't it fun waiting for it. I hope to be snowed in!
Yes, Mark is probably biting his tongue about now, but he is growing up (must be 30 now) and mellowing out a bit. Brash young men do get worn by the time and elements.
**Disclaimer: If I appear arguementive, then I probably am just being a #*!@ today. It comes & goes. C.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:44:38 PM new
mulberry912, your argument is too narrow to have any credibility with me. AW faltering would not be proof to me that your points are valid. Ad sales is a single component of any .com company's revenue. I invest in yahoo, I know their ad pains. I watch them very carefully. Ad revenue will not support a business like AW, not even close.
Perhaps you have some CPM or CPC data for .com companies you can give us, and trend it for the past year or so, given your experience?
Grannyfox, I doubt they would want to show their vulnerabilities in a public forum. Private companies don't put their dirty laundry out unless they have to. If you can get them to do it, though, that would be interesting. I'd definately stay for that.
Yeah, supposed to start this evening, here. We ALWAYS lose power, so I've been making a giant vat of stew...easy heating one dish meal. No way do I like cooking when jogging in place, trying to stay warm...heh.
I didn't know Mark is that young... I'll be a kinder, gentler me...
posted on March 4, 2001 12:56:26 PM new
Granny, (may I call you Granny?) there doesn't appear to be a VP of marketing for AW, as far as I can tell-
http://www.auctionwatch.com/company/crew.html
There's a sales guy in there that looks like George Clooney, though.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:58:11 PM new
Ummmmmm....Bob, I am not kinky enough to want dirty laundry. I just like honesty and respect.
Mods...please don't get trigger happy. The honesty is with a lower case h.
**Disclaimer: If I appear arguementive, then I probably am just being a #*!@ today. It comes & goes. C.
posted on March 4, 2001 12:58:26 PM new
I don't think a listing fee alone will do it. I don't think AW is going to make it. Too many examples of this in the last few months.
posted on March 4, 2001 01:01:24 PM new
Yeah Toke...T3 is about the same age...I pretty much always cut them both some slack.
Bob, you can call me Granny, C. Charlotte or anything else you wanna. If I catch that you're talking to me I usually respond.
**Disclaimer: If I appear arguementive, then I probably am just being a #*!@ today. It comes & goes. C.
If you invest in yahoo, you need more than I can offer in the way of help or advise. The market is what it is. We are in a slowdown in the economy that will change in the next 6 months.
AW's advertisement dollars may or may not be enough to keep them viable. What I am saying is that the 1% charge is not in the ballpark. I agree with the $.05 per listing. The reality is that when users jump ship for due to the 1% charge, AW will also loose the nickle and advertisers.
Ebay has recently increased their fees to sellers. What happend was that they lost money in the deal. The majority of those selling on Ebay used add-ons such as Gallery ($.25) per item, enlarged images (1.00) per auction, etc. etc. Now, most of the sellers pay the increased fees for listing an item and dropped the optional goodies to make up for the increased cost. Ebay's gross revenues dropped 16.3% in the last 30 days in JUST listing fees and their goodies options. That does NOT include reduced revenues for a lagging sales economy on Ebay.
Ebay will survive the downturn due to the extremely high volume of traffic and their advertising revenues.
THINK ABOUT IT
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