posted on May 3, 2001 07:26:29 PM new
Don't know how much your US Priority Mail, under 4 pound widget weighs?
1. Buy a scale. Office Depot, Sears, heck, even EBAY has them for quite reasonable prices. I bought a perfectly serviceable one for $12.00.
2. Wrap up the package for mailing, leaving the box open so that if you HAVE to change something, you don't waste the box.
3. Place boxed item on scale, making sure it's on a level surface.
4. Note weight of item. Hint: If you have trouble remembering, write it down.
5. Look at chart for USPS Priority packages and determine shipping cost based on weight. If you need to add handling for any reason, add it in now.
6. Add cost of shipping and handling to auction, specifying that the total is subject to change if they buy additional items, if the bidder is international, or if certain other events occur.
7. Should a SHOCKING or HORRIFYING event such as needing to combine winning auctions occur, take item out of open box and put it in a larger one with the other items to be shipped. Give bidder a revised shipping amount.
I promise once you get the hang of these SEVEN SIMPLE STEPS, bidders haggling over shipping will be largely a thing of the past! I follow these SIMPLE STEPS and LO AND BEHOLD, NO HAGGLING-AFTER-THE-FACT OCCURS!
This will take you LESS time than answering emails to people who want to know the shipping costs, because to tell an emailer those shipping costs, you will need to do the EXACT SAME PROCESS anyways!
Works just fine for me in over 99% percent of my under 4 pound, US Priority Mail-sent packages! Well just imagine that!
posted on May 3, 2001 10:14:29 PM new
Brighid868...although your 7 steps may work for most sellers there is one BIG problem with it...
You can't get the other sellers to follow your seven steps
So...Mrpotatohead's solution is the best one for the buyer to follow.
PS..right now I have 91 items up for sale. Most of them will go into boxes that measure 9"x9"x9" up to boxes that measure 14"x14"x14". I don't have the room to store 91 BOXED items until the auctions end and the buyers pay me...much less the boxed items for earlier auctions. Using your 7 steps I would currently have 130-140 boxes waiting for shipment. My house is to SMALL to continually store that many packaged items.
[ edited by amy on May 3, 2001 10:15 PM ]
posted on May 4, 2001 12:07:55 AM new
99.9% of sellers have competitive shipping prices! I've done lots of buying on ebay (75+ buys) so I know for a fact. Many of those (about 40) I bought without knowing the shipping prices beforehand. So I'm not sure what conflict these buyers can possible have with the sellers even if the s/h is not stated.
"Yea, that dollar is so important to me that I'm going to spend one hour of my life arguing over it with you, and maybe give you that dreaded neg."
posted on May 4, 2001 05:23:06 AM new
Brighid -
I stop at step 4 and put the estimated shipping weight in my auction, with a note that cost will vary with distance if the item is over the USPS priority flat rate weight.
posted on May 4, 2001 05:23:50 PM new
amy: i don't understand why, collectively, other sellers' failure to follow these seven steps would prevent any given individual seller from doing it, or somehow put him at a disadvantage.
also, if the majority of your items fit within such a small range of box sizes, wouldn't it be a fairly simple matter to keep one box of each size on hand, put an approximate amount of padding and the item in the box and weigh it, and then take it out of the box and store it (i presume you are already storing it somewhere in your house?) that way you would never be forced to keep more than a few boxes around at a time. If there are items you cannot do this for, then so be it. Just because you may not be able to do this for SOME packages does not mean you should just write off the ENTIRE idea. Keep in mind that I said priority shipping under 4 pounds. If you have very odd sized items or items that fall outside of that weight, then certainly it is not as easy a task. But a vast number of auctions without shipping listed DO fall within those parameters, and I'm addressing my comments to sellers of those auctions.
I'm trying to come up with solutions for other sellers because I DON'T have this problem (99.9% of my items have a shipping price listed and I have never, in years of shipping and hundreds of transactions, had a single after-the-auction complaint about shipping cost--not even one!) Clearly their IS a problem because people here keep starting threads complaining about it and instead of looking at what they need to change, they keep whining about wanting the bidders to change.
My post may have sounded sarcastic, but what I see is people who want X when they know X is not going to happen, so instead of adapting their business accordingly they simply complain. People who always do what they have always done will always get what they've always gotten. If you don't list your shipping and get after-the-auction complaints, you are living proof of this saying. i guess you can go on complaining as long as you want...i'll keep weighing my packages and enjoying my buyers.....
posted on May 4, 2001 06:49:08 PM new
Brighid868...I didn't think your post was sarcastic but I did think it was simplistic and optimistic
Most of the posts I see here at AW that are addressing shipping are from buyers complaining about to high shipping. There are many fewer ones initiated by sellers...and it seems to me to be even fewer from sellers who do not list the shipping in their auctions.
A number of the buyer complaints about "excessive" shipping involves sellers who DID state thier shipping amounts up front.
The MOST COMMON complaints (in my opinion) comes from buyers who compare the shipping noted in the ad to the ACTUAL postage on the package...and find the shipping was higher than the actual postage. And these complaints seem to be what a lot of the seller complaints are about (ie..."I stated $6.50 shipping in the ad and the buyer is complaining that the postage was ONLY $5.00...they want a refund or they will neg me" ).
So, in my opinion, it isn't sellers that need to be addressed about this issue because they aren't normally the ones whining...hence, Mrpotatohead's post seems right on the mark to me.
PS...I almost always put the US shipping charge in my auctions. The only time I don't is when I am doing a dutch auction (normally for sets of dishes) and that is because I have no way of knowing how many of each item any one buyer will buy. A 60 piece set of dishes could be bought by numerous buyers...with each buyer choosing how many dinner, salad, bread and butter plates, cup and saucer sets, fruit bowls or soup bowls they need to complete their set.
But I don't pre-weigh or pre-package...there is no need to...a cup and saucer set will go into an 8"x8"x8" box and ship for $5.50 including insurance...a salt and pepper set will fit into a 5x5x3" box and ship for $3.50 first class. A teapot will go into either a 10x10x10" or a 12x12x12" box and ship for $6.50 including insurance...in other words, I know from prior experience what size box an item will need and what it will cost.
What I was trying to point out is that the sellers are not the ones normally complaining and even if they are they usually aren't going to take your advice.
And even though Mrpotatohead's advice was also good...few buyers will listen to his advice. The only time most of them will start doing as he suggests is when they have been burned a few times and they fugure out for themselves to "email before bidding to ASK questions"
Oh...I too have no questions about shipping costs or after auction complaints. Well one question is asked every once in a while..."does the shipping include insurance?" (it says shipping and insurance in the ad!)
posted on May 4, 2001 08:42:00 PM new
amy: I'm a tad confused as to why you would opine that my advice is simplistic and optimistic when you yourself stated that you list shipping and you don't have these kinds of problems. If it's that simple for you (and for me as well) why would you think it's actually more complex/less likely to be successful for others?
fair enough regarding the point on shipping being stated and THEN argued with. I agree that the problem sounds like it happens even when sellers list shipping.
However, here again, how many of the complaints by sellers (regarding after-the-auction complaints by bidders) could be alleviated by breaking down shipping and handling so no one feels gypped--- as in "$4.15 Priority shipping + $1.50 handling fee" ? Why not just get in the habit of listing it this way and prevent, in most cases, the possibility of later complaints? If you don't like the results you are getting, why continue to do them in the way that gets the complaints?
If a mailing cost amount is stated AND the shipping & handling is broken down and the customer STILL whines, then I say the customer is in the wrong! And I completely agree, if you don't like the stated & broken-down cost of the shipping, but still bid then he or she is foolish to bid and should not complain. But if sellers don't CYA for this situation by DOING that breakdown, then why should I countenance their whining more than I should the buyers' whining?
[ edited by brighid868 on May 4, 2001 09:05 PM ]
posted on May 4, 2001 08:54:06 PM new
>breaking down shipping and handling so no one feels gypped
Not possible. There is that 1/2% of the buyers out there that will win an auction with all shipping and handling fees out in the open, and STILL give the seller a ration of crap because they don't think they should pay ANY handling fees.
posted on May 4, 2001 08:57:19 PM new
I do not understand why sellers should "break down" shipping charges. Causes more problems. If you don't want customers to see the postage on the box, go to FedEx or get a Priority Mail permit.
What's wrong with:
Fixed shipping including guaranteed delivery is $X.XX
I have "negotiated" rates with FedEx and I'm not about to publish them like this:
Shipping cost is $X.XX, insurance cost is $X.XX, box cost is $X.XX, tape cost is $X.XX, Valium cost is $X.XX, etc.
I've found that the more variables put into TOS, the more chance for trouble. The "fixed one price" model works best for me!
[ edited by morgantown on May 4, 2001 08:59 PM ]
posted on May 4, 2001 09:26:22 PM new
Brighid868...simplistic because it approaches the problem as if there is only one cause. Your seven steps (which, by the way, are one good way to handle shipping IMO) are presented as if they will finally solve the situation...which I don't think is true.
You suggest that breaking down the shipping charge into postage and handling will end complaints...again I think that is simplistic.
IMO, the complaints come from a VERY SMALL percentage of the buyers. And I think those buyers will complain no matter what the seller does. Therefore I think it is foolish to try and satisfy a small group of buyers who will NEVER be satisfied.
I have been selling for 3 years now (gosh..is it THAT long!)...I list my shipping charges in the auction as "US buyers to pay $5.50 shipping and insurance". That amount includes a small charge to cover my shipping supplies.
My buyer's postage amount has never equaled the amount I charged them for shipping and yet I have never had ANY buyer question it and I have probably shipped over 7000 packages in the last 3 years. This leads me to believe the complainers are really few and far between.
posted on May 5, 2001 09:11:37 AM new
so if the number of complainers is so tiny, why do these threads get started constantly?
why do people start them, implying that it's a major problem for them, and then after I point out the source of the problem, and one easy solution to it, other people then minimize the problem (it's only 1/2%, complainers are few and far between, etc.)
I have seen this exact thing happen over and over on threads in AW. People complain, I comment, then they either end up saying they already do the thing I suggest and it works (even though they still feel the need to disagree with me, probably because there's something about my tone they don't like, or it presses a hot button within them, rather than really disagreeing with the solution itself) OR they say 'well it's only a little problem, no need to make any changes'.
You want to know the truth? I am in the social work field. I work with welfare recipients who are trying to get off welfare 40 hours per week. Your collective talk (and reactions) sound exactly like the ones of the people I work with on a daily basis. Very often my clients want to get sympathy and mutual strokes but usually not real solutions. Solutions might require them to change, which is uncomfortable and would require them to recognize that some things they are doing may not be the smartest things. It's much easier for them to change their stories after I suggest changes. They, too, also have a tendency to believe that if a solution won't solve the WHOLE, entire, 100% problem, then it's not really a valid solution and should be ignored or even better, picked apart using every unlikely possibility as a reason to reject it. And a lot of the time even when I know they actually do agree with what I'm suggesting, they will disagree simply because they are irritated by my confidence in stating it.
Anyway, since the problem is so tiny, hopefully there will be no further complaining about it.
posted on May 5, 2001 10:16:05 AM new
"so if the number of complainers is so tiny, why do these threads get started constantly?"
My opinion? A lot of people like attention (well, most of us do! ). The chronic complainers want an audience...or want to "belong" to the group. These boards (here and on ebay and other OAI boards) seem to foster a negative attitude. Especially a negative attitude towards ebay and by extension theose who use ebay. Its chic to tell stories about one's "PITA buyer" or "bad seller". If your good enough at it you can get a following of people who will encourage you to tell more stories.
And part of it is just venting. A need for someone to listen to you and tell you your not nuts...a need for empathy, a need to reach out and find that others have experienced what you have.
I think those that are just venting realize there is little that can be done to change the situation. No matter what, there will always be sellers who don't list shipping in their ads or who charge a high handling fee.
The complaints from the buyers are the easiest to address...from the buyer's side. The buyer can control himself even though he can't control the sellers. He can take the actions of emailing and asking. He can decide not to bid if the shipping is to high. He is in control of each and every auction he may want to bid on. If he doesn't take control and continues to complain he has no one to blame but himself.
The seller on the other hand doesn't have the same control. We can't prescreen the bidders...we can't know before hand what points are important to him. We have to accept bids from all comers. Every bidder is different. It is impossible to create an ad that will satisfy everyone. So we try to satisfy the vast majority of customers and realize some bidders will be unhappy with our terms.
Your contact with the clients at your agency, or your coworkers really can't be used as a comparison to those of us selling on ebay. We are in business (even those who are cleaning out their closets). We can't satisfy ALL potential customers so we have to find the happy medium that satisfies the majority of our customers. It is purely a business decision.
And since all of us have different circumstances, what works for one may not be effective for others. One size DOESN'T fit all when it comes to selling on ebay. It isn't a matter of "well your solution doesn't solve 100% of the problems so it is no good" but rather "in my circumstances it is not time or money effective to follow your advise...the number of problems I have in this area are so small that it is not worth the extra time or money involved to adopt your solution. I am willing to accept the occasional aggrivation from those who don't like my methods. But I do find some help by coming to these boards and 'venting' to my peers who understand what is happening".
posted on May 5, 2001 11:31:18 AM new
We're all just preaching to the choir here.
Any seller who has read any of these AW shipping threads knows (or should know) that being vague on shipping charges will cost them bids. Bidders won't complain, they just won't bid. From this buyers point of view, the problem is not in convincing the people here at AW, but getting the word out to the other sellers that they are shooting themselves in the foot by not being specific regarding shipping charges.
posted on May 5, 2001 11:47:49 AM new
I would say that the people I work with at my agency can be compared to the experiences of Ebay sellers very readily. In a fact, in a few cases, my clients ARE ebay sellers!!
In any case, we will have to agree to disagree. I found out today that I have to move from my house so I need to attend to things outside AW for a while. take care all.
posted on May 5, 2001 01:11:27 PM new
BlondeSense..."shooting oneself in the foot" is relative. No matter what a seller does, there are always going to be buyers who will not bid on their auctions, for one reason or another.
I know one seller who has close to 5000 feedback. All her auctions say is buyer pays actual shipping. She has a good sell through rate and gets good prices. But from what some buyers have said here, her "actual shipping" is a red flag and they won't bid on auctions like that. Maybe she is losing bidders, but it doesn't seem to be affecting her bottom line. She has plenty of bids as it is so her TOS of "actual shipping" is working for her. The lost bidders are not even missed!
posted on May 5, 2001 10:55:01 PM new
Blonde has sense! Only one out of ten dissatisfied customers will complain. Actually the ratio is higher than this because a certain percentage of complainers are "cronic complainers" and should be discounted.Sellers that continue to do things the same old way and ignore "occaisional" complaints about shipping charges are really shooting themselves in the foot 10x for each one.So a sellers 1/2 percent ratio is more like 5 percent and that can mean a lot of lost bids over time. Just consider 10 sellers with 1 complaint each equals 100 people dissatisfied with what they feel are excessive shipping charges.What if you were to apply this to all the sellers participating in on-line auctions with one or more such complaints? No matter to what extent you take this line of thought; the numbers only get larger. I'm afraid some of these sellers will soon have no feet!
[ edited by PaladinLvs on May 5, 2001 11:18 PM ]
posted on May 6, 2001 02:15:29 PM new
I recently emailed Safeharbor about an auction where the dutch price of the CD was a penny and the shipping charge was $14.00. FWIW it had bids. eBay apparently had no problem with that.
posted on May 6, 2001 03:42:14 PM new
PaladinLvs...they may not have any feet but they can still be raking the money in.
There are lots of fish out there in the ebay sea...just because one or 100 won't bite at the bait doesn't mean many others won't.
Even if a seller doesn't get any complaints I bet there are still buyers who won't bid on that seller's auctions.
If the seller gets the items sold for an acceptable price to him then it really is imaterial and unimportant if some buyers boycott his auction because of something they don't like about his TOS.
posted on May 6, 2001 04:10:40 PM new
Being vague about shipping charges loses bidders? You've got to be kidding! I've only had shipping charges in my listings a few times and I haven't seen a drop in bidding compared to average sales prices. I don't leave things to chance so you know I've studied this extensively whether my final bids are being hurt or not.
Part of the reason is because I grab a lot of impulse buyers who aren't fretting over a piddly amount for s/h. Why should they fret anyway? I've never understood the mentality of someone who wants something so badly that they bid on it, then after winning spend an hour complaining about a $1 handling charge.
Sure sometimes I get complaints, but I've had a complaint when I had the exact charge listed, and she said she would complain to ebay if I didn't drop the s/h! It's a fact that these impulsive buyers ignore our TOS', so having your s/h is not stated seems pointless to argue. The one's who consider the s/h to be important will email you or simply not bid.
There is no winning formula because when you have buyers who must play this as a zero sum game, someone will lose and likely both buyer and seller will be the losers.
As a seller I charge the handling which allows the buyer to receive value in their packaging. That is win-win situation and I don't want some clueless buyer offsetting my strategy.
posted on May 6, 2001 06:46:37 PM new
quickdraw29: "The one's who consider the s/h to be important will email you or simply not bid". Also: "I don't want some clueless bidder upsetting my strategy"(see quick's above entry). My points exactly. The people most concerned about "unfair shipping charges" will be more inclined to find something else they like rather than waste the time to find out something you should have already told them. After all; as Amy so well said it; there are lots of other fish out there in ebay and a large portion of them are sellers! Why should the buyer"fish" have to waste time being dissatisfied about "unfair shipping charges" when there are so many seller"fish" to catch? Secondly I get the impression that "clueless bidders" could not possibly upset your strategy...they are the ones bidding on your merchandise!
[ edited by PaladinLvs on May 6, 2001 07:01 PM ]
posted on May 6, 2001 07:33:31 PM new
Palasdin, for every s/h stickler who doesn't bother to bid on an auction because it's not stated, you'll have 10 impulse buyers who are lining up to bid.
posted on May 6, 2001 07:44:32 PM new
Quickdraw...I have to take lessons from you! You said in 2 lines The point I tried to make and I rambled on and on about LOL!
posted on May 6, 2001 08:17:55 PM new
quickdraw,thanks for agreeing with me that you are only selling to stupid buyers. That's OK because the more of them you educate the more bids I will get! Except for Amy...she will always buy from you...impulsively!
Or the buyers may just glance at my feedback and hold trust in me that they will get a fair deal. What's so dumb about that? Many people aren't so concerned over price, so why do you call them names?
posted on May 7, 2001 12:19:26 PM new
quikdraw: You and amy got me started by referring to buyers as "impuslsive", "fish","clueless" ect. And in my opinion any people that would allow themselves to be classified by you as such and still bid on your auctions are stupid. Just a reflexion of what you are saying as interpeted by me.Now let me clear the air a little by referring back to the title of this thread "Excessive Shipping Charges". I believe that, within the context of that statement, there are far more people with negative reactions than you are prepared to admit. An example of this "ESC" being a bidder buying 2 items from 2 diferrent sellers: one item near the USPS max for priority mail and the other less than 1/3 that size. The S/H is almost identical, disregarding insurance, and the items both shipped from Pa. I say that the pool of impulsive, clueless, "fish" that will put up with this kind of crap is getting smaller and smaller. One day you will throw "your bait" and get less bites; I would bet on it! I say this with the longevity of ebay as a viable selling platform in mind. Please do not misunderstand my intentions as being to attack your particular selling plan...the $1 handling charge you referred to in a previous posting did not seem to fit the MO of "Excessive Shipping Charge" as I see it. And the fact that you do not disclose it has no bearing either except to say why spend the extra time on email about the subject and why risk putting a potential customer in the position of being aggravated? In fact, I can't see why you jumped onto this thread so defensively at all.
