posted on June 23, 2001 05:47:30 PM new"sometimes a seller cannot give an actual shipping charge without a zip code" - rewagasso
Yep, I get this, which is one reason why I'd like to see the phrase "actual shipping" mean "postage + packing materials" and not get cluttered up with abstract handling charges like "standing in line at the post office."
When I'm buying a large item, or something breakable that requires special packing, like a set of dishes, I understand that the actual expenses are tuffer to estimate before it's packed up and its destination is known. Because it's not possible to put in the listing an exact dollar amount, I'd like it if we had a firmly-defined phrase -- like "actual shipping" -- that would give me an concrete idea of what I'd be expected to pay. (As a buyer I can make a good guess at what a box costs or how much postage might be, but I have no way of estimating what charge might be associated with "standing in line at the post office." ) Until that day arrives, a detailed reassurance in a seller's listing (like "buyer pays postage, insurance, plus $3 for double boxing, peanuts and bubble wrap") gives me the info I need to be willing to place a bid.
[ edited by triplesnack on Jun 23, 2001 05:48 PM ]
posted on June 23, 2001 05:48:33 PM new
quickdraw. You can close the case if you wish. However, the fact remains that new bidders are burned by the word which in all practicality, in the context of specifying charges, means what all rational folks believe it means: no added handling charges. Why are you all arguing about what you think it means. The people burned by it are the new bidders, and virtually all of them think it means no handling charges and get burned at first. Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing against stated and reasonable handling charges, nor is there anything wrong with saying actual, and meaning it needs to be calculated later. What is very wrong is knowing what new bidders think it means, and then using it to surprise them with handling charges. There is something called "result, or bottom-line logic." Kind of gets right to the heart of a matter, circumventing all the extraneous rhetoric. Applying it to this discussion we would find that If ebay just got rid of the easy checkoff of actual, nobody would be hurt. But keeping it does hurt new bidders, and unfortunately they may not return.
posted on June 23, 2001 05:57:18 PM new
selecto, If I charged for standing in line at the PO it would be an extra $1.87 on top of the other handling costs. The fact I can't realistically charge for my time without excessive argumenants from buyers shows what a pathetic business we are in. My shipping time has been commoditized.
However, somewhere in those piddly handling fees compensates me slightly for my expenses. My labor is written off as a loss though. Note I do not check off "Actual shipping." The buyers can't afford my Actual shipping!!
I disagree that the seller should break down the shipping costs for you. ot only is that not realistic, it's not a normal business practice. Ask Walmart if they will breakdown teir costs for eac item; then ask Walmart.com to break down their shipping costs.
If you don't know what your total will be, at least get an estimate from the seller. That's what I do when I bring my car in to be fixed.
posted on June 23, 2001 06:02:46 PM new
Well, let's see. If all sellers would just state the bleeping shipping for any item under five pounds, then give a range for their heavier items with a note to email for exact quotes, the whole bleeping thing would be solved wouldn't it?
posted on June 23, 2001 06:09:37 PM new
saddie999, yes you are correct. Ebay should do away with the "Actual shipping" box because no one can calculate their actual costs beforehand because their gas milage may vary; the amount of time standing in line may also vary!!
posted on June 23, 2001 06:34:06 PM new
Actual shipping, packaging, handling, postage fees can mean anything at all depending on the seller. We quote a flat rate in almost all of our auctions so the bidder knows the costs up front.
When I bid I find it a nuisance having to e-mail ahead and ask if there is a packaging or handling fee. Some sellers quote one and then "forget" what they told you after you win the auction or say they misquoted.
Then there are some sellers that charge a packaging and handling fee (because they consider themselves a real business like Amazon). But when I get the package there is dirty styrofoam and plastic grocery bags, etc. that is in a half flattened box that looks like it was all taken from the nearest dumpster. This is what I am paying extra for?
posted on June 23, 2001 07:09:12 PM new
Quick- which part is too deep for you to understand, a)that new bidders are confused? or b)that dropping "actual" would not hurt anyone? We really need to stop all the obfuscation and think of those two simple (for most of us) concepts. nightey-night.
posted on June 23, 2001 08:15:38 PM newHowever, somewhere in those piddly handling fees compensates me slightly for my expenses. My labor is written off as a loss though. Note I do not check off "Actual shipping." The buyers can't afford my Actual shipping!!
I know the feeling!!!
But when I get the package there is dirty styrofoam
How dirty? Just enough that you know it's not used, or nasty? Do you have any idea what new 2 inch sheets of styrofoam costs? $10 for a 4 X 8 sheet. Line a 16 X 16 X 16 box, and you've used a third of it.
in a half flattened box that looks like it was all taken from the nearest dumpster.
The post office can make any box look like that... Or are we speaking of used boxes with old shipping lables that have been removed. Same 16 X 16 X 16 box is $2.00
A certain amount of scrounging will save money, at a cost in time. I would never use anything nasty to package with, but I will use used packing materials, so long as they are suitable.
posted on June 23, 2001 09:12:56 PM new
I think the majority of my ebay packages arrive with recycled materials and I have no problem if the packaging is clean and sturdy.
When I say dirty I mean nasty. I have had used paper towels with yellow stains, grocery bags with dried blood stains from meat, junk mail, rice krispie boxes, frozen meat packages, cookie boxes etc. And some sellers have even left the crumbs inside.
The boxes that I am talking about were never sturdy enough to withstand normal shipping.
If sellers wish to charge extra for packaging and handling they should justify that cost by using decent packaging. If they are planning to sell from a storefront and are expecting to attract a good customer this will be even more important.
I have had high feedback Powersellers send me disgusting packaging. There is no excuse for it. Sorry if I am getting off topic.
posted on June 23, 2001 11:20:08 PM new
What new bidders are confused? Granted, when one starts anything new there is some confusion. Hopefully they take a minute and look the word Actual up in the dictionary and end their confusion immediately. I wouldn't blame the seller.
posted on June 24, 2001 12:09:05 AM new
I once bidded on a item from England, the seller said actual shipping. The average shipping price from England to US has been from my past experience from other sellers, 5 pounds so I figured, OK. I get a email form the seller after I won, he wanted 10 pounds!!!!!!! Claimed that is actual shipping charge! Didnt want a NPB sstuff so I approved, got the package, it he mailed it small package, costed him only 3 pounds!!!! NEVER TRUST ACTUAL SHIPPING TOS!
posted on June 24, 2001 12:24:27 AM new
Actual shipping means actual shipping as calculated by seller.
In other words, it does not constrain the final quotation at all.
Sellers who state actual shipping and mean actual postage are, in effect, asking for $5 or so to be deducted from their final bid price in many cases.
If the charge is actual postage, then say so.
If the charge is $4 over actual postage, that's far better than "actual shipping" in my mind, because it constrains the final quotation.
posted on June 24, 2001 12:41:19 AM new
It should mean actual postage.
Packing is a basic business expense just like printer ink and electricity. The exception would be if it requires lumber to build a giant crate and if so it should be stated in the auction. I never charge packing on ordinary items. As a seller, you need to be thrifty. I only buy tape and I never pay "handling". Someone is always selling it for "actual postage"...so far anyway.
posted on June 24, 2001 06:00:01 AM new
"If distance effects cost, and the seller gives a fixed amount in their listing, they must be eating any excess costs that may result (or overcharging if they're stating the max cost possible). "
I always state a fixed dollar amount. Sometimes this does result in overcharging those who are close to me, but no one has complained, I thin because (1) the fixed shipping charge is always a small fraction of the value of the items sold, and (2) they know the charge up front.
posted on June 24, 2001 07:16:08 AM new
The fact that this definition has been debated for more than two years and ebay has done nothing to settle the problem is totally irresponsible on their part.
The quickest way to lose an active buyer is to screw them on shipping by using some of the slimy rationalizations contained in this thread to justify overcharging them on shipping.
Once burned, most buyers decide ebay is a ripoff and never return. All those who say the buyer should know YOUR definition are misleading them unless you state your particular definition in your auction description.
I believe the buyer is forgotten in all this justifying of charging for gas, time etc.
Be honest and clear about what is to be charged for shipping and you help all sellers increase the pool of happy bidders.
I am awaiting clarificatin of shipping costs on two items I want to bid on right now, and given that 24 hours has passed with no response, they'll likely net less than they could have since I simply won't bid on them until that is clear.
One of them said "see auction description" for shipping information, and of course, nothing was there. It has no bids at them moment and they seller is probably blaming a lack of traffic or something.
posted on June 24, 2001 10:14:05 AM new
If ebay meant "actual postage cost" wouldn't you think they would have already made the change?
If you had a company bidding for a government contract for shipping, wouldn't you figure your total expenses including packaging, labor, gas etc, or would you give it all for free and just pray and hope you don't go bankrupt?
There's people here that still haven't figured out what "Actual" means even though it was described to them. Doesn't that show stubborness, and unwillingness to accept the truth? The guy from the UK who chargeded 10 pounds saying it was actual shipping charged his real expenses, he did not estimate his expenses!!
Sellers do not have to justify their reasoning. Whether a seller wishes to make a profit or at least break even is certainly a sellers perogative, and when they check "Actual shipping" on their listing they are saving the buyer money, and not making a profit. Like I said, my actual shipping would be $1.87 more for the delivery to the PO, plus $5 for the labor to package an item. Buyers need to learn a good bargain when they see one.
