posted on November 20, 2001 01:10:15 PM newAs the last I checked it had not been absorbed by the USA as an additional State
In fact, after you guys blow all your money and waste all your bullets chasing some idiot in the mountains of Afghanistan, we're going to move in and turn your country into an additional Province in Canada
Seriously, there is no onus on the seller to provide landed costs to the buyer. All the seller can do is tell the buyer how much it will cost to ship the item. Taxes, customs charges and UPS graft are the sole responsibility of the buyer.
Maybe this seller purposely overstated the exhorbitant shipping charges to turn off international buyers ...
OTOH, if a seller ships via UPS after being asked to, and agreeing to use USPS mail or some other carrier, then I believe the seller has an obligation to cover any UPS graft fees that the buyer incurs. As overseas/international/whatever customers, we know about UPS graft and that's why we get peeved when we have to pay it after the seller has promised not to use them.
And, if the seller overvalues the item for some twisted reason like "I can get more on the insurance if it gets lost" or "it's worth a lot more than the buyer paid for it", then I belive the seller should also be responsible for any additional taxes the buyer has to pay on the over declared value.
[ edited by RB on Nov 20, 2001 01:12 PM ]
[ edited by RB on Nov 20, 2001 01:13 PM ]
posted on November 20, 2001 01:17:19 PM new
Dear Sweet Potato, What an interesting observation and that you so much! It seems this site has automatically edit his profanites because I know I did not. That leaves me to wonder about the integrity of this site. I am all for them taking out foul profanties, but they should insert, explitive deleted by auction watch. Want the real version email me.
posted on November 20, 2001 01:25:05 PM new
Maybe if we Canadians are such "EVILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL" people as Bush like to say twenty thousand times a day we should shut of the electricty, the natural gas, and the oil flowing into the US. We could save it for generations of Canadians instead of ten years of American consumerism.
posted on November 20, 2001 01:40:46 PM newbdgates - it doesn't matter "what" was deleted by the automatic censor. The point is that you are complaining about the Seller's use of profanity and yet it appears that you instigated it. What goes around, comes around.
The bottom line is this - you were suspended for auction interference and deserved to be. It doesn't matter that you sugarcoated it by commenting on the Seller's "positives" in your email - it was a deliberate attempt to interfere with the livelihood of another eBayer and it backfired.
You claim to have 200+ ebayers emailing eBay in support of you. I bet you've got twice as many who have read this thread and emailed eBay to thank them.
posted on November 20, 2001 01:53:46 PM new
bdgates:
When you say that the seller declared a value on the item higher than its actual value.. what are you basing that on? How much did you bid on the item? How much was the declared value of the package? Is it a considerable difference or are we talking pennies?
I agree with you that vulgar language is not at all appropriate. But... be honest with us... who started using vulgar language in their e-mails first? Was it the seller, or was it you?
Your e-mail that you sent out to 200 people could technically be considered SPAM. While you are not trying to sell them anything... you are discussing a commerical entity. Therefore, in the broadest sense, it IS a commercial e-mail. Regardless... it is certainly against the rules you agreed to as an eBay member and was undecidedly WRONG to do. (not to mention a huge waste of time!)
In the future, there are appropiate mediation steps you can take to resolve problems. A good one to have gone to would have been Squaretrade. Now that you have gotten yourself NARU'd, that probably isn't an option for you. Chalk it up to experience and learn from your mistakes!
posted on November 20, 2001 01:56:51 PM new
OK there is a very easy way for this to be resolved. Let Asenashop post the original shipping order with UPS, not his invoice, showing how much he declared the item for. Seems simple, seems honest, seems easy, seems like it would resolve everything. Come on Asenashop and all his supporters, let see it!
posted on November 20, 2001 02:05:05 PM new
Bdgates,
I don't see how that would solve anything! You haven't told us how much you bid for the item. Without that information, the declaration shows us nothing. Do you even know what the declaration was, or are you just ASSUMING that the declaration was too high? If so... you may owe this seller a BIG appology when this all gets sorted out. The declaration COULD actually be the right amount. (you certainly haven't shown us otherwise!) I just don't think we're getting the full story here!
posted on November 20, 2001 02:13:32 PM new
I went to SquareTrade, the seller Asenashop is not a member so they cannot help and he is not a member of the BBB, so they cannot help, and eBay doesn't care, they just want commissions.
Ask Asenashop to show any use of profanity on my behalf, he can't, there is none. I even tried joking with him in Turkisk, to which he took offense and explaining I am on a disablility pension which makes no difference to him. He has options. It will cost him less than $10.00 USD to resolve this. Is that stubborn or what!
The point is if I pay the extorted $20.00 USD and he ships it again with a false declartion I will be out at least $100.00 dollars (brokerage NOT CUSTOMS fees) for something I have paid for in full.
How can you possibly defend this action! I hope hundreds of people are reading this and flooding eBay with email as SweetPotato suggests! Every email they have to deal with eats into their bottom line and their precious commission all over a stubborn, profane seller who won't absorb 9.95USD for the cost of making a mistake.
posted on November 20, 2001 02:28:51 PM new
Bdgates:
I am glad to hear that you did not use any profanity. That is a plus for your side of the case. As for SquareTrade....sellers do not have to be members for you to invite them to mediate. You might have had to pay the mediation fees... but you could have resolved the problem. (if he was willing to go through the mediation process). As for being on a disability pension.... while I appreciate the difficulty that must present you, that is not the sellers concern. You should budget your funds accordingly. No one else can do that for you.
You still haven't answered my question on the declaration. How do you KNOW that the declaration was overvalued?
posted on November 20, 2001 02:48:47 PM new
THIS IS AN EMAIL FROM SQUARETRADE. YOU CAN SEE HOW EFFECTIVE THEY ARE
B Gates
eBay Item Number: 1278798155
SquareTrade Case ID: 859002963
Hello Mr. Gates,
It has been 14 days since you filed your case. Generally a respondent who doesn't respond within 14 days is not likely to respond. Unless we hear from the respondent, we won't send you further notice about this case.
What do I do now?
To learn about some next steps you might consider since you did not get a response, click here.
How can I avoid this problem in the future?
Sellers who display the SquareTrade Seal on their listing have committed to responding to any cases filed against them, so next time look for a SquareTrade Seal Member:
Purchases made from Members are covered by a $250 Fraud Protection Guarantee.
Seal Members are committed to participating in mediation to resolve issues.
SquareTrade verifies all Seal Member identities and selling standards.
Sincerely,
SquareTrade Customer Support
Please do not respond to this email with information regarding your case, as it can only be processed through the SquareTrade website. If you have other questions, please contact us.
posted on November 20, 2001 02:56:27 PM new
Bdgates,
That just means that the seller was not willing to mediate. Not everyone has the time to. (especially on items with little profit margin). Your next step should have been to forward the vulgar e-mails to safeharbor. They could have then taken care of the situation. Instead... you sent off SPAM and got yourself NARU'd. Now you have very little chance of getting any support from eBay. It just goes to show that you've gotta play the game by the rules!
You still haven't answered my question on the suppossedly false declaration! What's the deal?!
posted on November 20, 2001 02:57:21 PM new
As requested the agreed on auction price and $20.00 for shipping.
The UPS brokerage fee was $78.95. Seem a little high to you?
Congratulations! This eBay item has successfully ended.
Item name: NEW Linksys Cable/DSL& Voice Router BEFN2PS4
Item number: 1278798155
Final price: $132.50
End date: Sep-30-01 14:55:43 PDT
Number of bids: 4
Seller User ID: asenashop
Seller email: [email protected]
High-bidder User ID: bdgates
posted on November 20, 2001 03:06:27 PM new
Bdgates,
How exactly does a UPS brokerage work? Have you tried contacting UPS to see why the charge seems high? Maybe they could give you some answers that the seller just plain doesn't have available to give you.
posted on November 20, 2001 03:08:02 PM new
eauctionmgnt
First what is "NARU'd"
Second I did file immediately with safeharbour. On the 30 Oct 2001.
They finally responed with this on the 10 Nov.
It seems they did nothing.
Hello Bruce,
Thank you for providing us with the details about this situation with
[email protected].
We are concerned about violations on the site and have thoroughly
investigated your report. Please be assured that we have taken the
appropriate action in accordance with our site policies. Our actions may include issuing a warning, temporary or indefinite suspension, or
terminating the membership.
As you may know, we are unable to provide specific information regarding the result of our investigation to third party members. Please
understand that this is for the protection of all eBay users.
Again, we appreciate your assistance in keeping eBay a fun and safe
place to trade.
posted on November 20, 2001 03:15:14 PM new
bdgates,
NARU = Not a Registered User
NARU'd means that you have become a NARU.
Sounds like you did the right thing by Safeharbor... and that the seller was probably issued a warning. You may not find this to be extremely satisfying... but enough warnings can cause a seller to become NARU'd. You did a good thing by reporting him, and it seems as though he did deserve to be reported for his communication skills.
However... you still don't know for sure that the seller did anything wrong with the declarations. It could be that UPS is the one you should be mad at... not the seller! You really need to get to the bottom of why the brokerage fees are what they are. Your best way to do this is to talk with a UPS representative. When a transaction goes sour... always gather as much information as you can to support your case!
posted on November 20, 2001 03:50:36 PM newHow exactly does a UPS brokerage work? Have you tried contacting UPS to see why the charge seems high? Maybe they could give you some answers that the seller just plain doesn't have available to give you.
The answer is simple ... UPS are crooks. The UPS folks that have to deal with the public don't like these graft charges anymore than you or I do.
BDGates ... can you stop dancing around and answer the burning question?
You bought the item for $132.50. What was the declared value of the item?
posted on November 20, 2001 03:56:11 PM new
bdgates,
have you called ups to explain the 78 dollars fee??
may be ups will redeliver to you free if you can convince them there is a misunderstanding on declaration value.
anyway if you find squaretrade ineffective and ebay just cares about commision,how would emailing 200 ebayers help you ??
posted on November 20, 2001 04:01:33 PM new
i can understand your unwillingness to pay such a high amount .
sometimes with some persistence,you could prevail.
i recently fought my bank for some charges and i won,it is time consuming but it is worth it.
before that,i was denied insurance claim by usps and i appealed and i won.
so direct your attention to something more constuctive,work with your seller and ups to lower the charge and then work on getting restated on ebay.
there is a lady here who has helped folks get restated on ebay,cant recall her name right now,may be other aw members do.
posted on November 20, 2001 04:17:40 PM new
I have NEVER lost a fight yet when I know I am right, ever! If I am wrong I will happly bend over backwards and lick Mr Keskes toes! I have challenged Aseneshop to publish or mail to me the original shipping invoice with UPS, so far he has not responded.
I have also requested the same information from UPS, so we will wait and see what amount was declared on the shipping forms, but any math dunce can see that the numbers are a like wonky!
So far Asenashop refuses to divulge the amount he put on the declaration.
posted on November 20, 2001 04:25:55 PM new
I have had the worst experience with UPS, but I do not think they are the culprets here. I have NEVER had a successful undamaged on time shipment with UPS or a satifactory damage claim, ( I have one really nasty smashed up and dented Air Conditioner courtesy of UPS. The box was totally disintigrated, so they wouldn't allow the claim as I had no box!) but this time I think they are just the middle party.
By the way FedEX and the US Postal Service are GREAT
The reason I have emailed so many people is eBay HAS TO CHANGE THEIR RULES to favour the buyer as well as the seller. Do a search on the internet for eBay and Fraud and see how many hits you get!
posted on November 20, 2001 04:28:33 PM new
Waiting for a reply from UPS as to how they calculate their fees, will let everyone know when I get an answer
posted on November 20, 2001 05:41:25 PM new
good luck,big company can be understanding at time if you approach them in the right way.
a customer kept is a one less customer for fed express and dhl.
by the way fed exp will be raising fee soon.
your seller may not remember how much he declared on the customs form??
i bet ups can backtrack for you or they have it in their system.
posted on November 20, 2001 05:44:50 PM new
This is the most hilarious thread I've read in a long time!
<br />
<br />
I just loved the geography lesson
<br />
<br />
I will tack these gems of northern wisdom on my PeeWee Herman Cork Board to remind me every day why I STOPPED shipping internationally! Especially to such overseas protectorates of the good ole USofA as MEXICO & CANADA <br />
posted on November 20, 2001 07:30:01 PM newI have also requested the same information from UPS, so we will wait and see what amount was declared on the shipping forms, but any math dunce can see that the numbers are a like wonky!
You just killed your credibility with that statement. You don't need to see the UPS forms to find out what the declared amount was. Methinks you have lost this one
As to the UPS charges, and assuming you are a Canadian:
1. They will collect the GST (7% of the "declared" value converted to Canadian dollars)
2. They will collect your provincial sales tax (ranges from 0% to 15%, again calculated on the "declared" value converted to Canadian dollars)
3. The will collect at least $30.00 Canadian (plus the taxes) as graft, only they like to call it "customs brokerage fees".
So, assuming your PST is 7% (the average), the "declared" value in US dollars was probably around $155 to $160 US. Looks like the seller included the shipping charge in the declared value which is a no-no.
posted on November 20, 2001 09:01:35 PM new
Using RB logic. Price was 132.50 converted to Canadian at 1.61 is 213.32CAD 14% tax on that would be 29.86CAD Amount charged $78.95 by UPS. So that make a brokerage fee of $49.09!!!!!!!!!!
I don't think even UPS is that much of a rip off! Asenashop made a mistake, he should eat the costs involved!
FedEX charges 10.00CAD in brokerage.
Canada Post/US Postal Service charge 5.00 in brokerage.
It is obvious Asenashop overdeclared the value. He made a mistake, he should pay to reship.
It is very simple! I don't know why you guys have such a hard time seeing the simple math.
If he had sent it US Postal Service as I requested it would have come to 132.50*1.61*.14+5 or $34.86. Less than half what UPS wanted to collect.
posted on November 21, 2001 06:24:40 AM newSo that make a brokerage fee of $49.09
Could be possible.
I don't think even UPS is that much of a rip off
Oh yes they are ... absolutely no doubt about that.
Asenashop made a mistake, he should eat the costs involved
Agreed, but I think the eater in this case is going to be you (for the item and whatever you paid for it).
Same thing happened to me a while ago only I didn't do the kneejerk thing and send it back (you're out your money plus the item). What I did do is complain vigoursly to UPS management about their graft. Eventually, they told me that I could clear the item myself (I signed a form) and all I had to pay was the GST and PST, which is fair.
But, I will never, ever even think about buying something from someone again who insists on using UPS as their carrier ... these guys are the worst crooks in the business.
posted on November 21, 2001 07:06:58 AM new
now,how does one go about clearing the item himself when the ups truck driver is standing at your door with the package and grunted-make check payable to brokerage inc???????????
