posted on December 27, 2001 11:54:50 AM new
I was selling Apex brand dvd players, which I purchased from a major retailer, on ebay and had my auctions cancelled at the request of Philips Corp a member of ebay's VeRO program. Philips says that the dvd players infringes on their copyrights. Well that may be so, but I did not infringe on their copyrights. I emailed Philips with no response. I would see a lot of these dvd players for sale on ebay and I would post somemore. They would get cancelled. I got 2 or 3 warnings from ebay not to repost, but I did when I saw other being sold on their and after Philips didn't respond to my emails.
I then got suspended for a minimum of 30 days. My wife and I then set up an account under her name and ebay has suspended both accounts indefinately because they said they told me not to register under another name. I didn't, this new account was my wifes but they say it was linked to me someway or another.
I am starting a class action lawsuit against Philips for cancelling auctions of Apex dvd players. If anyone else wants to join in then email me at [email protected] with your; Name, address, phone number, email address, ebay user name, the reason why you want to join the lawsuit. All information will be turned over to my lawyer.
Philips had no legal right to do what they did and are still doing.
posted on December 27, 2001 12:34:06 PM new
If you Decided to list them again dont use there name in the title.
Make sure the brand name only shows in your picture call it brand name
its not against any rule or law to sell there items you have bought and owned dont scan the the details off there books or anything just use your own images and you should be good to go .
http://www.Dman-N-Company.com <br />
Email [email protected]
[ edited by dman3 on Dec 27, 2001 12:35 PM ]
posted on December 27, 2001 12:43:53 PM new
I did try to sell a few of them without the brand in the title or listing but didn't have much luck. I can not post them in any kind of way now because I have been suspended. Any idea how ebay knows that another account is yours. Do they know the computer used to place the auction? My wifes account was set up with her email, her bank account, and her credit card and they suspended it to saying it was mine.
posted on December 27, 2001 12:58:37 PM new
Why didn't you just file a counter-claim as the DMCA dictates. Then Phillips has 10 days to file a court action in your jurisdiction, or you get to re-list.
posted on December 27, 2001 01:19:50 PM new
"Why didn't you just file a counter-claim as the DMCA dictates."
How do I do that. I have not heard of this. I have emailed ebay multiple times and I don't remember them ever mentioning this. I have talked to customer service today on the phone but they said I had to talk to safe-harbor and I only got to leave a voicemail for them and I have not heard back from them yet.
posted on December 27, 2001 01:20:11 PM new
Mrs. claus, I don't think ebay checks the IP address. People who have dial up accounts tend to get different IP address assignments when they login. Even a lot of the DSL connections are using temporary assignments of IP addresses these days. I'm guessing the accounts got suspended because they probably have the same mailing address.
posted on December 27, 2001 01:26:50 PM new
I used different mailing addresses. My home address for my account and my office address for her account. But the billing address for the credit cards both have our home address on them.
posted on December 27, 2001 01:52:01 PM new
It really looks like a husband and spouse ought to be able to have seperate accounts. Looks like I will have to open up an account under my father's name or something. I wonder how I can get by with that without getting caught. Will I need a seperate internet account or just a seperate email account. What would be the best way around them. My wife's account lasted for about a month. I got to sell alot of my inventory before Christmas but still have a couple of thousand of dollars worth I need to sell.
I didn't realize I was breaking any rules when we set up my wife's account. No where in the rules did it say only one account per household.
We have a terrific feedback with ebay. About 230 positive and only 2 negative ones. The 2 negative were just trying to get even with me for leaving them a negative feedback I think.
posted on December 27, 2001 02:04:27 PM new
Having two accounts in the same household is not against the rules - unless ebay suspects that the second address a) is being used to sell in place of a suspended account at the same account or b) is being used to place shill bids on the other account's auctions.
If you're going to setup another account to try again, the only way around it is to have everything different from your prior accounts - name, address, email, physical address, credit cards, etc. Personally I wouldn't risk it - if you don't cover your tracks well enough and ebay manages to connect the new account to the previous ones, you're likely to be permanently banned. I'd sit out the 30 days suspension and investigate selling the merchandise on other auctions or fixed price sites.
posted on December 27, 2001 02:36:35 PM new
I am not on a 30 day suspension. Ebay says that I have been indefinately suspended.
I have practically begged them to let me back on and that I would not sell the Apex dvd players until something is worked out between me and Philips Corp. I told ebay that I have been a member for years and have bought and sold thousands of dollars worth of merchandise on ebay.
This all boils down to Philips having my auctions cancelled because they say they Apex is has not paid some licenseing fees. I have talked to Apex and they say this is bull and Apex lawyers and Philips lawyers are battelling this out.
posted on December 27, 2001 02:46:19 PM new
Customdesigns12:
I ran into this same thing a few years back. I was selling (on my account, not my companies that I work for) a product that was imported directly for me from taiwan. Well, I had no idea that the product was infringing on some patents of another company and that company was watching ebay closely. Needless to say, my auctions were cancelled.
Now, the lawyer contacted me and said that it was infringing and was currently under a lawsuit, and if I continued to sell the item KNOWING this information, I would be subject to possible litigation too.
So not ALL products are legal or on the up and up. I had nothing to do with ANY of it, and yet here I was finding myself in the middle of the bull. I just dropped the product and sold other things. It wasn't a great seller anyway.
You could just get a new bank account and new address (using a small business name) and register under ebay again. Just use a new ISP (such as a new dialup) or use an anonymizer service. The IP address is ONLY recorded at the time you register. 99% of the rest of the time ebay finds you based upon billing information. Keep it simple, and just keep your nose clean and don't sell any Philips products.
"Just becouse you buy the product, this does not give you the legal right to resell"
Yes it does. This is not a piece of software. Software you only purchase the license to use it. This is a dvd player, a piece of equipment, like a stereo.
So you agree with Philips. You are saying that you can not legally go to your local Wal-Mart and puchase an Apex dvd player and then sell it at your free-will.
If Philips has such a win-win case they would stop Wal-Mart, Sams Club, Circuit City, Best Buy and others from selling, but they know that they don't have a snowball's chance in hell of doing that.
Philips needs to do what is right and pursue legal action against Apex and get their licensing fees on the number of products manufactured and quit cancelling a few auctions on ebay.
posted on December 27, 2001 02:53:36 PM new
If people who bought these products had no right to sell them this company would be soon and fast out of buniness.
they are after all in business to make money through selling there product and the way they do it is through resellers
the copywrite problem has to do with the use of some word or logo not the ITEM !!!!
posted on December 27, 2001 03:18:59 PM new
It is the licenses to these patents that Philips is saying Apex has not paid. Here is part of Philips Corp's about me page on ebay.
U.S. Philips Corporation is the owner of patents covering DVD technology and has invested untold resources in this technology for all to enjoy. Philips offers licenses to these patents on reasonable and non-discriminitory conditions to manufacturers of DVD Players and DVD ROM drives.
There are several DVD Player manufacturers which have chosen not to become licensed. They would rather appropriate the technology of others than to engage in R&D efforts. This can not be tolerated by a society that needs to innovate to survive.
posted on December 27, 2001 03:53:55 PM new
i have some questions?
if philips complained of your auctions on ebay of apex dvd players because apex has not paid its licensing fee to philips??
and you said you bot them from a retailer>how did this retailer manage to sell them in its store??
ebay suspends you for 30 days and you try to sell thru your wife 's account and get caught,now you are permanently suspended.
when you and your wife registered to sell with ebay with your credit card,ebay will run the card through to check authorisation code,approval code and AVS-address verification which is your billing address.thats how they find out you are trying to get back into selling by using a different email addr,bank account,credit card.
to them they dont know nor do they care this other email address is really a separate human being,not your alter ego,they have no way to tell,some folk may argue their deceased mother is with them or their great grand uncle etc.how do they know if there is a real person behind this user id??
there are ways to get around it,but it is not proper to disclose it here.
you learn an expensive lesson,there is money to be made on ebay if you follow its rules.next time do some research on ebay before you plunk down expensive investment.
posted on December 27, 2001 06:59:50 PM new
I figured it was the ISP address because my brother-in-law's band has a website and they are quick to point out who people are because they track the isp information. They can even lock out an isp address. However, all a person has to do is log in under a different isp to get around it.
Of course, I am in no way an expert ... I don't even play one on TV
posted on December 27, 2001 08:35:26 PM new
stopwhining,
"if philips complained of your auctions on ebay of apex dvd players because apex has not paid its licensing fee to philips??
and you said you bot them from a retailer>how did this retailer manage to sell them in its store?? "
Yes you can buy Apex dvd players from Sams, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Circuit City and Best Buy and probably others.
"ebay suspends you for 30 days and you try to sell thru your wife 's account and get caught,now you are permanently suspended"
Yes, I was placed on a 30 day suspension. We set up an account in my wife's name during this 30 days because I had about $5,000 worth of merchandise that I was needing to move before tax season and preferably before Christmas. My wife's account was in her name, our office address, office phone number, her seperate bank account, her own credit card, her own email address on her seperate internet account. The only things that would be the same are the computer used and the billing address on our credit cards.
"there is money to be made on ebay if you follow its rules"
I read the rules before opening my wife an account and it said nothing about not being able to do that.
posted on December 27, 2001 09:06:07 PM new
becky
its Ip (internet protocol)address not ISP(internet service provider)
As somone pointed out in a earlier post your Ip address changes for most peaple evrytime they sign on.(dynamic)
Websites do have a perment Ip address (static) so they can be found.
Since ebay now requires cookies to do most anything they may be able to trace duplicate accounts on the same pc through cookies
customdesigns I got 2 or 3 warnings from ebay not to repost you don't play by the rules you pay the price.....
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
posted on December 27, 2001 09:06:07 PM new
YOU SAID,read the rules before opening my wife an account and it said nothing about not being able to do that//
ebay rule does not say if you are suspended ,you can sell what you were forbidden to sell under a different account(user id ).
ebay rule said you can have multiple id as long as you are in good standing with ebay,many ebay members have multiple ids and ebay does not care,some id are for buying,some for selling,some for bidding on his own auctions (altho not allowed ).
some sellers will sell thru several ids,as they want to get rich quick,as they have many items to sell.
search past threads ,i think there are a few cased where 30 days suspension turn into permanent becasue the seller is impatient to wait thru that 30 days.
i believe there is a seller from canada who is selling on other venues because he tried and get caught,do a search ,there are a few.
have you tried yahoo warehouse??
with a 5000 investment,i dont blame you for wanting to act fast,now you cannot ise your spouse account,how about someone who does not live with you,has a credit card and a pc and an isp,like your mother or mother in law or a grown son who lives away from you or a brother or sister?
you need to get away from the same billing address,see when they run this credit card,AVS address verification system will check cardholder address.
.
posted on December 27, 2001 11:21:40 PM new
[b]Yes you can buy Apex dvd players from Sams, Wal-Mart, K-Mart, Circuit City and Best Buy and probably others.
[/b]
This is true! I think the only reason for this would be that these major
players in the retail field can't be bullied by Phillips. The response by
the giant retailers, if sued by Phillips, would be to end any business
relationship with them. Where would Phillips sell the merchandise? I
believe this is the fear Phillips has from big corporations such as
Kmart and Walmart whom they CAN'T bully!
If I'm Kmart, and you're Phillips, and I buy 25 million dollars or so
(wholesale) from you every year in TV's, VCR's, and other consumer
electronics, are you going to sue me?
Probably not. There are other brands to put on my shelves.
posted on December 28, 2001 07:07:54 AM new
becky,
some website could be rather exclusive,they know if you are coming from a certian ISP,you are probably someone who is a regular visitor until membership expands.
if i have a website which discusses soil erosion in muncie,indiana by alumni of university of st clare year 1942 who majored in horticulture,whose last name ended in f,g,or v,wear bowtie and do not care for cherry coke and dot not believe in MC/VISA,
IT would not be too difficult to tell who is online.
posted on December 28, 2001 10:08:57 AM new
You may have conveniently left out a part of this puzzle.
Were you and your wife selling the APEX players with the "magic" menu"? If so, the sales of that version is against the DMCA as it allows a user to break copy protection among other DMCA protected features. I know of several eBayers who bought pallet loads of these things at Circuit City for $99.00, held them for a few weeks, then started selling them for over $500.00 apiece, knowing full well the unit was banned by the Feds and that people would naturally be willing to pay moe for it.
Whining to your lawyer may only get you in more hot water for selling an illegal device. I doubt it Philips had anything to do with this.
It's interesting that eBay took a stand on these illegal devices. I wonder why they continue to allow the sales of GO Video dual VCRs that were manufactured prior to DMCA "D-Day", even those that state "will copy any copy protected tape with the push of a button" in their descriptions.
Maybe some eBay employee was selling the APEX player (they're a dime a dozen) and got upset with your competition.
posted on December 28, 2001 07:05:38 PM new
These did not have the hidden menu.
Ebay and Philips have cancelled Apex dvd player auction no matter if they were altered, not altered, new or used it don't matter as long as it has the Apex name on it. Apex is not the only brand that can be hacked. Sam's has been selling a daewoo 3000n which has a secret menu to play dvd's from any region.
Why don't ebay just add the apex dvd player to the list of items you can not sell?
Philips sells CD-Recorders, what do they think people are COPYING with them. I bet it is copyrighted music.
I don't think Philips cares if people are copying music, dvd's or whatever. They sell equipment that does that and they know that it is being used for that.
They just want Apex to pay there fees for using there technology.
Philips as given some idiot the job of monitoring ebay and it has given him something to live for. If you wait until he goes to bed and post with the buy it now feature you stand a better chance of the auction going through before he catches it. He would usually wait until the day the auction is supposed to end to cancel.
I have emailed Sam's, which is where I purchased these units, telling them that I want my money back because they sold me a illegal product according to philips. They sold me these units for resale but I can not sale them because they infringe on Phlips Corp's patents. Maybe, but doubtfully, Sam's will get involved.
posted on December 28, 2001 08:26:56 PM new
You ignored the warnings because other people were selling the same item? You didn't know you couldn't sell [the same item] under [your wife's] account? Come on, what is this, second grade?
I can't believe you're still talking about ways to beat eBay's system. You've tried every way and failed. No wonder you're suspended. You give all sellers a black eye.
posted on December 29, 2001 08:07:09 AM new
Maybe they suspended sales of the Apex product on principle ... it is a piece of junk that has a reputation for starting fires due to it's poor constuction and lack of proper heat sinks ...
posted on December 29, 2001 08:32:00 AM new
WOW,it would be interesting to see good old SAM'S CLUB will take 5000 worth of inventory back after xmas??
yes,wait till the vero cop goes to bed and then list with buy it now?? what time do the customers go to bed??
posted on December 29, 2001 12:43:39 PM new
The actual reason your auctions were pulled is that the Chinese-made APEX machines have the "secret menu" which users can access to turn off Macrovision and change region codes to view any DVD. These machines are highly sought after by collectors for these features. As for "copyright" from Philips, that's nonsense; APEX machines are sold at K-Mart.
