posted on January 4, 2002 02:26:12 PM new
I have had Billpoint not notify me of payments a tons of time,and it really irritates me,and I've had customers get mad because I didn't realize they had paid. But the way I look at it is that it is my job to make it as easy on my customers to pay for their auctions as I can.Its not always what I like or don't like that counts.Being flexable is what keeps you ahead of your competition.Just my opinion.
posted on January 4, 2002 02:31:28 PM new
mballai; I have never had a problem with eBay which has not been resolved in a very quick mannor. I mean I e-mail them and it is resolved right away, I get credits or answers etc. Maybe once when they closed a couple of my auctions I did not agree with but it is their playground and I had a scraped knee but still wanted to play.
I am a powerseller, I use checkout and love it, I use Billpoint and love it cause I have never had a problem with them. Go figure all the other people screaming about checkout and I had one transaction that did not send shipping and they promply paid up when I showed them. Been using it since day one and I think that is why I get soo much Billpoint.
I think I even get credits when they are not due and I have even got feedback removed without going through that safeharbor crap. I do not know why, maybe they love me and like the fees I pay each month. I see other people paying a lot more. I don't give them any crap and they leave me alone pretty much.
I hear you, I said it a couple times befor I have that will all 3 of them. I try hard to keep track of it but this one was missed. I have missed others before also but I always get a nice e-mail from the people asn ask shipping status, I always said we have not recieved payment, they always tell me how they paid, I look it up, apologize on my part and the payment companys part and ship the item with either upgraded shipping like I did this one or extra thing inside as a sorry present.
Damon, I would not talk to that B384y384 if you paid me the 8.70 back. Not after what she did. Actually cause I got some of her friends shut down on their ISPs I actually laugh about it. I did not have to sign them up for porn sites or nothing.
I get alot of the porn stuff so I am sure they signed me up but hell I just read it
posted on January 4, 2002 03:06:47 PM newLaneFamily - Although in effect you were taken three times, all of them seem to be out of Paypal's hands.
PayPalDamon - Paypal isn't allowed to dip into a person's credit card or checking account for chargebacks right?
Your last issue seems to be more of a USPS delivery confirmation issue. If the delivery person scanned it, you would have never lost the $8.70. Since electronic delivery confirmation has been introduced, anyone can be assigned a delivery confirmation number and never sent the package. I seriously doubt you did this with the great feedback record you have though.
posted on January 4, 2002 03:33:01 PM new
Hi sun818,
Buyer Complaints can only take place against the PayPal account. Chargeback recovery (against a bank account) is only active against users that signed up after October 11,2001.
posted on January 4, 2002 05:20:39 PM new
paypaldamon: Thanks for that info. It finalizes our decision to never use PayPal.
Of course, the AW posters conspiring in another thread to use PayPal to defraud a seller they don't like is a pretty strong argument against having a PayPal account, as well.
posted on January 4, 2002 05:44:58 PM new
Sorry to hear about it, Jim. What's up with all the Paypal complaints lately? Sounds like they are up to their bad old ways. Buncha crooks.
posted on January 4, 2002 05:47:10 PM new
Hi bettylou,
The majority of transactions NEVER result in an issue. When they do, it can boil down to:
a) chargeback (filed by the buyer)
b) buyer complaint (filed by the buyer)
c) never received product (action by the seller)
You will find that many problems faced by buyers, as well as sellers, are caused by individual actions by either party in a transaction.
How many transactions have many of the parties on this thread had without incident (chargeback,bad seller,etc)? How many transactions took place before there was an issue (with a chargeback,bad seller,bad buyer,etc).
posted on January 4, 2002 06:07:13 PM new
That's a good one, Damon. Let me ask you, how many times is too many times to be scammed by Paypal?
Paypal locked up my account, hundreds of dollars, for months over a $15 complaint. Paypal ignored its own TOS and came after me directly. Even though the item was insured, Paypal never asked the buyer to fill out an insurance claim form, per your own TOS.
Paypal continued to receive payments in my name, told my customers I had been paid, and sat on my money (yes, my money) for months. I closed my account, then opened a new one to collect the few remaining payments.
The last I heard from Paypal was a threatening email stating "we will take whatever action is necessary to recover the money." Three minutes later, another email arrived stating my second account was being locked up because I was paid with a fraudulent credit card. Right....
If Paypal had only asked the buyer to fill out the insurance claim as per Paypal TOS this whole matter would have been straightened out quick. Instead, you practically drove me out of business because someone decided to scam me in a $15 transaction.
posted on January 4, 2002 06:13:01 PM new
Hi twinsoft,
In all of the cases I mentioned was the action caused by the company? Or were they result of an individual action?
"Paypal locked up my account, hundreds of dollars, for months over a $15 complaint. Paypal ignored its own TOS and came after me directly. Even though the item was insured, Paypal never asked the buyer to fill out an insurance claim form, per your own TOS."
I believe that one of two things happened here:
a) we made a mistake, as accounts are not restricted over a 15.00 claim
b) there were additional issues at hand
It sounds like a chargeback was received. Chargeback liability is present if the Seller Protection Program is not followed.
A buyer is required to file a Buyer Complaint before doing a chargeback, but not all buyers take the time to read the terms of use.
I don't have access to your account records to look at the issue. If it was handled incorrectly, all I can do is apologize.
posted on January 4, 2002 06:39:44 PM new
if you have a merchant account and you cannot fight off a chargeback,your cc processor will debit your bank acount with the amount of the chargeback.
prior post of an ebay seller -billpoint did that to her to the tune of 12,000 dollars.
yes,if you know it is coming and you withdraw the fund in your bank account,or close the account,it does not relieve you of the liability and now what ?you need a new merchant account??who is going to let you open a merchant account with them?
posted on January 4, 2002 06:44:27 PM new
My complaint and thousands like it to the Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara County, CA, are what reined in Paypal's abusive practices last year. But I doubt company policy has changed one bit.
posted on January 4, 2002 06:46:57 PM new
Hi twinsoft,
A transaction is isolated, not the account, when there is a problem with a specific transaction. That is why I apologized if it was not handled that way.
posted on January 4, 2002 07:28:18 PM new
Lane Family
My reference to eBay was more for the fact that they aren't so great either.
I still don't get it: two sellers scammed you and one bidder may have, but it's really the post office who dropped the ball, so you blame the service the money went through?
It's a fact of business life that some transactions don't work out. It's gonna happen. If you do a lot of them, it will happen more often. PayPal or any other payment service is not always going to cover your losses no matter what they say they do. A certain amount of loss is inevitable. The average small auction seller can expect to take between a couple hundred and a couple thousand dollars in losses annually. And it is likely to come out of your pocket.
For bidders, do not use funds on expensive items, use a CC so you can do a chargeback if necessary. For sellers, get a written delivery confirmation and insure stuff no matter what.
I think PayPal is pretty stinko--they have a poor track record in the credibility department, but it still works and is fairly flexible. If you do a lot of business through them I wouldn't ditch them over a handful of trifling transactions.
posted on January 4, 2002 08:57:15 PM new
Thanks for a couple of my old friends to come in and help out a bit. I was feeling overwhelmed and maybe should have.
mballai "I still don't get it: two sellers scammed you and one bidder may have, but it's really the post office who dropped the ball, so you blame the service the money went through?"
Your kind of right. You see I am a business, yep tax permit, CPA the whole 10 yards. Merchant accounts, several bank accounts etc. I know some of you are also I am not special. I am just a little business but I am official in the governments eyes.
I have a Verified Business account with PayPal. I pay them many many dollars for their service. I am not the average Joe with a personal account trying to do business on it or just to make payments. I pay big time for that service. As a paying customer to many many services like eBay, Billpoint, ProPay, AuctionTamer, My Business Account at the bank, My Credit card (just interest ) at one time ClickStamps and the one Endica or something. I expect service since I am the one paying. As I stated before eBay treats me well, C2it I do not pay treat me well, My bank does all kinds of free stuff for me cause they want to keep me, ClickStamps was good to me but that is another story. Now this little Problem with PayPal. I pay them enough and followed the rules with the exception of the post office, yes I am mad at them and they have not felt the wrath yet cause I have not had time. I expect not to have to deal with the 8.70 cent crap and have them waltz in my account and take it without notifying me first and give me another chance to make good.
I got one e-mail, told them I am shipping it now cause I explained I did not get a notice. I shipped, I tracked I was done. they take the money, send me an e-mail say I am guilty. I call say what the hell and they said you did not provide a tracking number. I said you did not ask for one you ask why it was not shipped and I told you. Do you have tracking number, yes I do. Guess what it does not show delivered though. To bad so sad.
Normally that is fine but the found me guilty before they asked for the tracking number. The CS person said you better re read the first e-mail. I said that was a month ago almost and there was no tracking number when you told me to reply cause it was not shipped!
Phewwwww.
Ok, well I think I know how most of you feel, most say I am jumping the gun and you do not understand why I am angry. I have tried to explain but guess not good enough. Other people that have been taken in other ways understand and I thank them for that. Some of you now may stay away form them and I am glad this helped.
Thanks again everyone, agree or disagree we do not have to be angry with each other we just need to agree to disagree. I still appreciate each of you even Billy who did not come back.
posted on January 4, 2002 09:09:35 PM new
Ok, Ok, one final reason I like eBay and Billpoint. PayPal never did this for me!
Congratulations! You have been identified as an official First Prize
winner in the eBay "Checkout" Sweepstakes. You were automatically entered
when you used or set-up the new checkout system with eBay.com between
November 1 and November 30, 2001. asterisk* is the administrator of this
sweepstakes on behalf of eBay.com.
The First Prize is a $500 credit with eBay Online Payments by Billpoint,
which will be credited shortly, and a $200 donation to a September 11th
Twin Towers Relief Fund in the winner's name from eBay Inc. A donation
selection form has been provided below for your convenience. Please
respond by January 11th, 2002 so that we may proceed with your donation
selection.
Found this in my e-mail this evening. Yea!
Jim
Come on Damon, send me $500.00 and I will use you again.
posted on January 4, 2002 09:40:23 PM new
<b>twinsoft</b> I doubt that complaining to the BBB made much of a difference. I used to know a company that was a little shady, and they weren't one bit afraid of the BBB. All it is is a voluntary organization that businesses can belong to. This company even made it onto the District Attorney's list of frauds and scams and the better business bureau only said something like "some customers have experienced difficulty cancelling." From my friends that worked there, I know it was far worse than that. You could threaten them with the BBB all day and they'd laugh when you left. But mention the District Attorney's Office of Consumer Protection and they'd give you what you wanted. The BBB has no teeth. They survive on the dues of their members.
You are almost correct. I got a complaint filed againsed me, I shipped. I was found guilty even though I shipped then was asked for the tracking number which I can supply but does no good cause it was not scanned on final destination.
If you would read everything you will see my biggest complaint is they found me guilty of fraud basically with out even talking with me. The e-mailed me, I supplied an answer right or wrong, I wupplied an liget answer. I later get the money taken out of my account.
How was I supposed to know they did not like my answer. They did not write back and say ok, send us the tracking number which I would of. Ok, but that is not good enough you must supply proff of shipment which I would have.
In the end because of the post office not scanning the package I would have lost but damn it if you do not like my reply ask me for more or tell me. Don't just show up and take money.
If they would have simply replied and said great you shipped send us the tracking number and it is done with then later said the package was never recieved I would be mad but not as much at them for piss poor customer service as I am now.
cooner you are welcome to my paypal customers please take them. I have had 4 problems in my entire time of doing this, three had paypal included in them. I do not need a system that promotes fraud like they do.
Now I have to get back to processing my 141 billpoint transactions, I have a big shipping day tomorrow.
posted on January 4, 2002 10:14:34 PM newdrbrownauctions, the Santa Clara County BBB received thousands and thousands of complaints about Paypal. They revoked Paypal's seal of approval. You bet it made a difference.
Paypal worked with the BBB to get the seal back. I received an apology by mail (more like, you fucked up but we're sorry) and a what can we do to improve? kind of questionaire. Though as I said before, Paypal never really strayed from their cheatin' ways. It's all about PR.
If you have a complaint about Paypal, I urge you to contact the Better Business Bureau of Santa Clara County (Paypal is located in Palo Alto, CA):
posted on January 4, 2002 10:39:57 PM new
LaneFamily -
Gee, if you found the payment in your history file, sounds like you were not doing due diligence in verifying receipt of payments. After all, how can PayPal be held responsible for traffic on the net, your ISP's performance, et al. The payment in your history account is the bonefide receipt point of payment position. What if you got an email, and the payment was not in your account. Your point of reference seems to be a little off base.... JMHO
Also, if I were the buyer I would be PO'd too, did you expect an engraved inventation, or a flury of trumphets to announce - 'You got the money'. They did their part, you didn't do your, again..... JMHO
posted on January 4, 2002 10:49:45 PM new
nanntique
I am sorry you did not read everything I wrote. I never denied I was at fault for not finding the payment, I try but sometimes I miss them. I said it happens, I do not deny it at all. I appoligized to them.
The customer can be pissed, they can e-mail, I can investigate just like I did if you look at breif e-mail transcript I provided.
So far you have not said anything I have not said, a wasted post on your part. JMHO.
posted on January 5, 2002 12:02:15 AM new
LaneFamily -
A thought is never wasted, whether parallel or perpendicular to the point of discussion. Those that dismiss the right of thought, dismiss the right of existence. Or to put it more in context; 'I think, therefore I am'.
posted on January 5, 2002 12:13:17 AM new
Lane Family - I think it is time you sit down take a big deep breath and rest for awhile. It sounds like you have a full time job and now you say you are a power seller. When do you have time for your family? Take time out to smell the roses, it sure beats sitting in front of the computer all night. Take Care
posted on January 5, 2002 12:19:15 AM new
LANEFAMILY - I just thought I might like you know this and since I have NO idea who you are (and don't waste my time track you down, simply because that does not matter to me) I thought I'd tell you here.
I have had c2it for, I don't know, 6 - 9 months maybe. Anyway, at least twice a week I do not receive notice by email from them. I have learned that right before I am going to do my postage I check c2it. Thursday when I received my email saying I received a referral payment, I went and it was not there, I called was told glitch in system it will be 7-10 days. 10 minutes later it was there.
Just thought I'd attempt to help you from not having this problem (not knowing you have a payment) again.
Someday, my business will be as big as yours! But til then, I make a good living on ebay!
posted on January 5, 2002 06:18:29 AM new
My point is, you did not ship until after the complaint. Regardless of the reason, that is to late. It also sounds like you did not provide tracking info to PayPal, even after it was shipped.
posted on January 5, 2002 08:15:10 AM new
mballai said-The average small auction seller can expect to take between a couple hundred and a couple thousand dollars in losses annually. And it is likely to come out of your pocket. ---------------------
EXCUSE ME,WHERE DID YOU GET THIS STATISTICS??
i have been selling on ebay for 6 years,i dont have any losses within your range,i dont think i can afford to take that kind of losses.
posted on January 5, 2002 10:31:46 AM newNow if your customer service was any good you would contact the person and ask if they got it befor you reversed it.... I guess my real issue with paypal is like I said, if this happened at my bank for as much money as I give you guys they would have just turned the other way.
You guys are not reading. This is a customer service issue.
If Paypal had sent the seller a heads-up email, the seller would have replied, "Oops, item sent, here's the tracking number" and the whole problem could have been avoided. Because Paypal wouldn't take five minutes to investigate the complaint, they lost a big customer.
We've all heard complaints like this before about eBay and Paypal. Huge corporations that exist on the Web only, and offer no real customer support. They are big enough to lose even a high volume customer, so they play Russian roulette by eliminating customer support.
With Paypal it's a little different though. Paypal is dishonest, and anyone who has read these forums from the beginning knows it. Paypal will lie about their policies, and change policy so often that in the end they just do what they please. Sellers who think their business can't survive without Paypal seriously need to rethink their terms.
