stopwhining
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posted on January 13, 2002 09:06:35 PM new
to get that 5000 a year protection,you must be one of the old timers,x.com veteran??
i dont feel sorry for you at all ,like someone said something smell pretty fishy.
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 13, 2002 09:12:50 PM new
 I am glad you dont feel sorry for me. Maybe you misunderstand, I am not mad, or am I seeking revenge. Just sharing info and if some benefit then so be it. I am content as I stated before I never put eggs in one basket and I am allready moving forward paypal free and I want you to know it really feels good now that a FDIC regulated bank sends me the follwing emails.
This e-mail confirms that you have picked up the $500.00 you were recently sent from ********* by way of the c2it (sm) service.
If you have any questions, visit our handy online Help section or use our Online Customer Service at http://www.c2it.com
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS E-MAIL. This e-mail is generated automatically, and the address is not monitored for responses. If you are trying to contact us by using "reply," you will not receive an answer. If you wish to contact us please go to http://www.c2it.com.
c2it service is provided by Citibank, F.S.B. Member FDIC.
c2it is a service mark of Citicorp.
GCTR.071801
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stopwhining
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posted on January 13, 2002 09:19:32 PM new
wow,i am impressed,does it mean c2it is going to eat chargebacks for breakfast,lunch and dinner??how about midnite snack??
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GU1HToM
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posted on January 13, 2002 09:26:55 PM new
I think one of the strongest things to point out in NWREBEL's favor is the fact that he has a merchant account.
If excesive chargebacks happen that account would be yanked.
So why if he has so many chargebacks does he still it?
It is pretty simple....
he doesn't have that many
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stopwhining
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posted on January 13, 2002 09:56:41 PM new
guihtom,
the question is WHY DOES NWREBEL HAS 32 CHARGEBACKS WITH PAYPAL AND NONE WITH HIS MERCHANT ACCOUNT??
read prior posts from nwrebel on his explanation why??
C2it may think it has great backing,let me tell you this,we all have to go thru the learning curve,c2it will learn the hard way,the only comfort is that it is a very miniscule operation of a very big company,so it can easily eat all the chagebacks NWREBEL will bring them/
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 13, 2002 10:21:12 PM new
Let me clarify my status with my merchant account, I have had one actual chargeback because when we first signed up we shipped goods with delivery confirmation rather then signature as required. We chalked that one up to being a rookie with a new merchant account. We have had two issues where a card was incorrectly billed and funds were refunded upon notification. I have been researching the statistics on the issues here and from what I can gather 3% of all internet transactions are fraudulent in nature in which customers try and beat the system. (THE COUSIN OF THE BRICK AND MORTAR SHOPLIFTER) and also factor in a 2% customer complaint ratio and equate that against 2200 positve paypal transactions! I can live with those numbers.
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LaneFamily
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posted on January 14, 2002 12:31:05 AM new
I made this statement in one of my other posts and I will say it again here. PayPal is ripe for the crook, more real crooks and want to be crooks use PayPal than any other service.
It is too damn easy to charge back through them. If you have a real merchant account you get all the information from the chargeback and a real chance to fight it. Yes, even go to court if necesssary.
NWREBEL;
I have been around these boards for a while and these people are dogs, they will tear you up at the smell of fresh blood. You could be as right as rain and as pure as the vergin mary but someone will state they do not have all the facts and claim you are the crook.
Once in a while that happens but in most part the poster is stating all they know. In your case I am sure what has happened is exactly what happened. Now I have only lost about $100.00 total to PayPal so I feel for you about your amount. They do not understand how much in transaction fees you paid. Just those fees based on your volume would cover quite a few large charge backs. I know as a small fish with PayPal how much I was paying them and they stiffed me over 8.00, in my opinion.
Just keep your head up, state the facts the best you can and hopefully the AW dogs will not nip at your heals.
Jim
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tomwiii
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posted on January 14, 2002 05:54:33 AM new
...nip! nip!...
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stopwhining
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posted on January 14, 2002 06:09:46 AM new
lanefamily said,
Once in a while that happens but in most part the poster is stating all they know. In your case I am sure what has happened is exactly what happened------
//////////////////////////////////////
WELCOME TO THE CLUB,JIM/
I AM SURE THAT YOU ARE SURE THAT NWREBEL IS SURE EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD IS SURE FULLOF BEANS AND C2IT WILL SURE WELCOME NWREBEL WITH OPEN ARMS AND FEAST ON HIS SURE COMING ALL YOU CAN EAT CHARGEBACK BUFFET.
i am sure that you are sure that you know for sure what you know for sure how nwrebel operates.
thats for sure!
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GU1HToM
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posted on January 14, 2002 06:48:16 AM new
Whatever other questions you want to come up with here there is only 2 that I want to find out the answer to.
PAYPAL:
1 Why did you cancel the echeck transaction after the funds were removed from NWREBEL's bank account?
2 Why did you state that NWREBEL cancelled the transaction when he did no such thing?
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stopwhining
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posted on January 14, 2002 07:53:08 AM new
<br />
if you read his past postings,he has urged his customers to file chargebacks,so his reserve and his free fund is not enough to cover all the chargebacks.
<br />
second question - canned response,paypal and ebay and amzn and yahoo are great in sending canned responses.
<br />
i just received one from ebay ,asking me to rate their service of response,i did not bother to do so,the last time i did that,i get more canned responses.<br />
[ edited by stopwhining on Jan 14, 2002 07:55 AM ]
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 14, 2002 07:59:57 AM new
StopWhining I have to question your motives or even your credentials as it seems you do alot of bashing with no facts. I challenge you on this unmoderated board to identify who you are, provide your ebay credentials, or provide us with your website info. I am curious to see how involved with ecommerce you truly are. If you could provide us with some way to identify your position in this matter we could more effectively respond to your baseless accusations and theories. I have shown who I am and where I am and will not hide with a claoked identity behind any board. I challenge you to to the same review? Deal?<br />
[ edited by NWREBEL on Jan 14, 2002 08:01 AM ]
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Libra63
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posted on January 14, 2002 08:30:01 AM new
I sat down to answer in this thread but NWBEBEL does not understand. There are two sides to this story. I doubt if we are getting the full story from him and PayPal legally cannot answer. I did check to see when he (NWREBEL) joined AW and it was the later part of August 2001. Was it just to come in here to bash PayPal? As I said in another person's thread. Take a rest. Sit back and survey what is happening. I think you need a break.
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blairwitch
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posted on January 14, 2002 09:03:19 AM new
I believe NWREBEL 100%. He gave us all the emails, and even posted the transaction on his site! What told me he was right is when damon wanted him to edit his posts. If you have nothing to hide then what is the problem?
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SuperA
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posted on January 14, 2002 11:17:40 AM new
Seems to me that brick & morter retailers have to cope with a fairly significant shoplifting & other theft as a percentage of gross. CC operators have similar problem in CC fraud. But these are 2 different and clearly identifiable activities. Banks deal with CC fraud by increasing fees and prosecuting. B&M deal with it by increasing retail costs and prosecuting. These rates range from 3-10% of gross or transactions (actual number not important).
It seems to me that if there is a known rate of consumer fraud in B&M operations it would be stupid to believe that all e-commerce customers were free of e-larceny thinking. Sellers should be ware that statistically there are searchers intent on scaming through the equivalent of e-shoplifting. Charge-back fraud seems like a process ripe for picking since the deck is stacked to protect PayPal, there is no 800 customer service, no Walmart customer service desk...
Can PayPal chargeback for a buyer that, 6 months later, desides the widget they bought AS IS no longer makes them happy? Oh, im rambling on now...
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stopwhining
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posted on January 14, 2002 11:44:38 AM new
there is really no ideal form of payment suitable for internet transactions.
we are in the same boat as the mail order business.
may be e-check is best for the merchant.
when someone walks into a brick and mortar shop and did some shoplifting,the shop lost merchandise.
but,when someone enters an online order using a fraudulent credit card,the shop not only lose its merchandise,but shipping fee,chargback fee (10-25 dollars),the two latter ones can cost easily 50 dollars.
and do we need to revisit one sore area of e commerce-that our margin is not that high and not that wide??
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rkflower
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posted on January 14, 2002 03:08:03 PM new
Way to go C Kelly!!
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 14, 2002 04:15:44 PM new
OUR COMPANY HAS FILED A LAWSUIT AGAINST PAYPAL FOR $5000 UNDER CASE NUMBER C020132SC IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE STATE OF OREGON FOR THE COUNTY OF WASHINGTON. FROM THIS POINT FORWARD WE WELCOME ANY DOCUMENTED CASES OR WRITTEN TESTIOMONY WITH YOUR PAYPAL ISSUES TO BE SENT TO:
SWAPSELLTRADE LLC
2459 SE TV HWY SUITE 224
HILLSBORO OREGON 97123
MAYBE WE CAN HELP CLEAN THIS COMPANY UP.
http://www.swapselltrade.com/paypal_page.htm TELLS OUR STORY AND
http://www.swapselltrade.com/lawsuit.htm SHOWS PROOF OF LAWSUIT FILED ON BEHALF OF OUR CLIENTS AND CUSTOMERS.
WE HOPE ALL WILL LEARN AND CLOSE THEIR ACCOUNTS AND CLOSE ANY ATTACHED BANK ACCOUNTS TO PRESERVE YOUR FINANCIAL POSITION.
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twinsoft
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posted on January 14, 2002 06:01:14 PM new
... we ask that you file a buyer complaint.
Interesting email. Paypal starts slinging #*!@ with no provocation. That is un-freaking-believable. So much for privacy protection.
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 14, 2002 06:07:48 PM new
UH OH LOOKS LIKE A LITTLE ARM TWISTING
Hello,
I'm contacting you from AuctionWatch to inform you that some of your post(s)
have been removed. Please do not post personal names and phone numbers on
our message boards, as this is a violation of our User Agreement, and doing
so may place your posting privileges in jeopardy.
Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Regards,
Diana Bloom
Manager, Customer Service
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twinsoft
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posted on January 14, 2002 06:14:49 PM new
Paypal can get away with strong-arming the average flea market flotsam eBay seller. Most of those sellers don't have a merchant account, and believe their business depends on Paypal.
But more real businesses are starting to sell through eBay, real businesses with resources of their own. I'll wager those folks won't abide by Paypal's ever-changing TOS and service reps who lie through their teeth.
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paypaldamon
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posted on January 14, 2002 08:27:56 PM new
Hi SuperA,
The 800# is available to customers on the web site (PREMIER/BUSINESS ACCOUNTS). In addition, chargebacks are a right granted to consumers---there is little PayPal (or any other cc processor) can do to prevent a party from filing for one. However, the window (generally) for chargeback filing is 60 days. The issuing bank has final say in chargeback acceptance.
Hi blairwitch,
I have nothing to hide re: the echeck. Echecks take several days to clear in, which is why it can explain it not hitting the PayPal account immediately. The echeck is NOT processed to the recipient until it clears. In this case (apparently), the echeck is canceled, which means the recipient (because the funds have not cleared) will not receive the payment.
Hi twinsoft,
PayPal is asking for permission to refund the buyers from the party holding the account. NWREBEL has statedd that they will advise these users to file dvising users to file chargebacks, which will actually cause more issues to NWREBEL than giving us permission to refund the buyers.
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 14, 2002 08:35:23 PM new
DAMON WITH A LITTLE RESEARCH YOU CAN SEE YOUR WRONG. PAYPAL TOOK THE MONEY FROM OUR BANK AT US BANK AS THIS SCREENSHOT SHOWS
http://www.swapselltrade.com/paypal_lies.htm
IT GIVES ME GREAT PLEASURE TO SEE PAYPAL DENY THIS OPENLY AS I AM NOTIFYING US BANK OF YOUR POSITION AND WHEN YOU STATE THE FUNDS HAVE NOT CLEARED AND DENY THE CUSTOMER HIS MONEY, YOU HAVE MADE STATEMENTS THAT WILL CAUSE MY BANK TO CREDIT MY ACCOUNT AND LAUNCH AN INVESTIGATION INTO THE TRAIL OF CASH. THE BEAUTY IS THE PAPER TRAIL LEADS RIGHT TO PAYPAL.
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stopwhining
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posted on January 14, 2002 09:53:16 PM new
twinsoft,
<br />
i have been selling on ebay for 6 years,i have a feedback of over 2700,despite all that talk about the rough and tumble world of ebay,i have one bad check which i cannot collect and my share of deadbeats,given a 6 years period thats pretty good,no complaint there.
<br />
i started accepting billpoint and paypal 2 years ago,i never ask my bidders to use this and not that,but most use paypal,as all of you here know paypal has many fans on ebay.
as of todate,i have no problem with either paypal or billpoint.
<br />
then last year i open a shop on yahoo and apply for a merchant account with paymentech (sub of banc one).
<br />
it provides me with real time authorisation-approval code,auth code and address verification.
<br />
today i have 5 bogus orders which i have processed and shipped ,i would not know the total damage until all the chargeback retrievals come in.
<br />
i spent 1/2 day today talking to different folks in different dept of that facility,for those of you who cry you never get to talk to a real person,well i am abhorred that all of these poeple have a very narrow outlook on the whole business,many dont even know enough to be holding a conversation with the customer and some have erroneous info which could get you into trouble.
<br />
todate i am wondering why i am paying them for when i am going to eat chargeback anyway,every chargeback i lose i pay them 25 dollars,some chargeback is a sure thing and that 25 dollars is non negotiable,and it will be slapped on my account as soon as they receive it.
<br />
what does all that real time authorisation really buy me,not much??
<br />
now i missed the good old days of ebay where my customers send me a check or money order or even cash,they get the goods and i get the money,a fair and square deal.
<br />
if you think your problem with paypal or billpoint or one click is solved becasue you have a merchant account,to that i say to you-YOUR TROUBLE HAS JUST BEGUN.
<br />
<br />
[ edited by stopwhining on Jan 14, 2002 09:55 PM ]
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paypaldamon
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posted on January 14, 2002 10:36:31 PM new
Hi nwrebel,
I can explain the echeck process in more detail. I also explained why it would show as having left the bank. It doesn't mean that it would have cleared in (the transaction date was the 8th---all echecks take 2-5 business days to officially clear).
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GU1HToM
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posted on January 15, 2002 06:05:11 AM new
Damon ....
Lets rephrase the questions....
1. If NWREBEL did not cancel the echeck who did?
2. Why was his Vendor notified that he did?
3. Where are the funds that were removed from his bank account by PAYPAL to cover the echeck?
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 15, 2002 10:02:29 AM new
1. If NWREBEL did not cancel the echeck who did?
2. Why was his Vendor notified that he did?
3. Where are the funds that were removed from his bank account by PAYPAL to cover the echeck?
AMAZING THE SILENCE WE GET ON THIS QUESTION
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 15, 2002 10:11:08 AM new
http://www.swapselltrade.com/paypal_lies.htm
Back to this issue above, I just spoke with my supplier and he said that he spoke with Cabot at Paypal and they admitted they have my funds, Also US BANK verifies paypal has the funds, but Paypal tells my vendor that I cancelled the check on the day Paypal closed the account. Now paypal is telling my vendor that they will not give the money to him under any circumstance?
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LaneFamily
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posted on January 15, 2002 10:35:13 AM new
NWREBEL;
Are you still receiving money to your account there?
If you are or think you are you need to get that stopped also so no one sends by mistake.
If you want I can send you 1000 1 cent transactions and that will take care of anymoeny you have left. At 30 cents each that should take car of it
Jim
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NWREBEL
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posted on January 15, 2002 10:39:52 AM new
AHHAA I BET ..... I HOPE NO ONE IS SENDING ME MONEY BECAUSE ALL IT IS DOING IS FEEDING PAYPALS BANK AND WE ALL KNOW THAT IT WILL NEVER BE SEN TO THE PROPER PARTY
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