posted on September 10, 2002 01:45:32 AM new
Do you or other ebay’ers sell on commission??
Let’s say we sell NFL Bobble Heads for $10.50.
Charge the vendor 10% or 20% or even 30% or 40% for selling item for them.
That’ll give you a whopping commission of $1.05 or $2.10 or even $3.15 or $4.20.
Less fees and other overheads.
Do you not charge a reasonable $/hour amount for labour time involved to pack and send.
Or charge nothing and accept your granny’s offer to package for you at no charge, because there ain’t enough hours in a year to find sell and pack pack enough Bobble Heads yourself @ $1.05.
jefflh12
If you think that my granny should not be working for me for free, then what on earth makes you think I or anyone else in their rite mind would want to or should work for you for free.
Jeff
Have I got a deal for you??
I have 20 killos of scrap lead in the back yard and would consider selling it to you for 1c if you pay ‘actual postage & insurance’, …in fact, I’ll even pay the insurance.
Quick!!!
Send me your credit card details!!
Or doesn’t it sound like a good deal, does only the buyer need to consider shipping charges and not the seller???
Why are most of my shipping charge complaints coming from persons interested in cheaper items.
Why would you go to a second hand goods dealer for competitive shipping rates.
Gee… that’s a lot of questions,, but answer this---
If we have 2 sellers with 1 item each.
Item 1 (from nice seller) is crap with cheap shipping.
crap
+cheap shipping
=combined price which is un-attracive
OR
Item 2 is good with high shipping.
good item
+ high shipping
=combined price which is attractive
posted on September 10, 2002 05:54:46 AM new
And RB....you think the shipping charges are graft because????? You were there??? You talked to the seller personally????? Your psychic ability allows you to know the exact charges to the penny??? Or you are just assuming????
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
posted on September 10, 2002 07:10:05 AM new
Who said anything about "shipping" charges? I'm talking about the infamous "handling" charges which can include everything from a portion of your mortgage to the toilet paper you use to wipe your a$$ while waiting at the post office to get the package stamped.
In my case, and in other honest seller cases, if it costs me $1.00 for the padded mailer and $4.00 for air mail, my shipping and handling costs to the buyer are $5.00.
Anything else, like the gas to drive to the post office, paying the sitter to look after the kids when I am gone, taxes for the portion of the road I have to use, water to replenish my saliva after I lick the stamp, etc. etc. are simply the cost of doing business.
Like any successful businessman, I cleverly conceal those costs in the price of my product. If it ends up priced too high, it simply doesn't sell. I don't need to stack on a bunch of extras under the guise of "handling costs" to make up my profit.
Ever wonder how the guy who gives away free computer learning CD's on teevee for only $6.95 postage and handling makes his millions?
posted on September 10, 2002 07:19:54 AM new
So, if you are an honest seller, the padded envelope cost $1 and postage is $4. Apparently, the dishonest seller thinks he and his time and effort is more than worthless. And the dishonest seller doesn't hide his shipping costs in the price. And the dishonest seller may hire out his shipping functions to a service that also believes they are more than worthless.
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
posted on September 17, 2002 08:09:01 AM new
As stated before, it's literally impossible for a rational buyer to be charged an excessive shipping charge UNLESS the seller doesn't meet the terms agreed to by the buyer. In this case, the seller met the terms agreed to by the buyer in every way. Therefore the shipping charge was reasonable (you DID bid knowing how much you would have to pay, right?).
If a buyer considers the stated shipping charge to be reasonable and places a bid, but then decides after receipt of item that the delivery charge was excessive, then either
1) The buyer made a mistake in believing the charge to be reasonable in the first place.
2) The buyer made assumptions about the delivery method that should not have been made.
The buyer is the party in error in both cases, not the seller. To leave anything less than positive feedback for this seller would be just plain wrong. And if he does receive a neg, a retaliatory neg is very much deserved. As for leaving no feedback at all, that's your choice and it's a rational one assuming that you're willing to punish the seller for your error.
[ edited by mrbusinessman on Sep 17, 2002 08:11 AM ]
posted on September 17, 2002 09:30:57 AM new
You forgot the most common one....
3) The buyer saw the shipping charges, made no assumptions about the shipping method but believed he could talk, beg, threaten the seller out of it or just plain send what they think is "reasonable"
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
posted on September 17, 2002 11:26:40 AM new
first: *jefflh12* has no beef here, because he knew what SH fees were from start
second: read the words "shipping and handling" what are these words....one means the cost to ship product, other means the cost it takes to package, time it takes to deliver product to post office or whatever couier you use, the materials it takes to wrap package.....
i suggest that *jefflh12* become a seller and see what goes on when selling, and get off the cry baby attitude.....nobody put a gun to your head to shop with this seller, and READ, READ , READ, the auction brfore you bid and ASK, ASK, ASK, questions before you bid, and stop trying to squeeze sellers after you buy......personally i think *jefflh12* is using extortion tactics to try and get better deals.....
[ edited by skylite on Sep 17, 2002 11:33 AM ]
posted on September 17, 2002 11:08:12 PM new
Hi Jeff
To address your question directly,
did you ask the seller why the heck he charged you so much?
Just out of curiosity. What's the worse they can do? Swear at you? Neg you? BFD, you can bid with a neg.
I do agree with Roadsmith,it's a little oily.
BUT Jeff, you have to email if it's not in the TOS, never assume, or you come here and the big guns will tell you off.
hehehe
I am strictly amateur hour as a seller, but as a bidder I never assume anything. Once I opened a box and the seller gave me a gift of an extra item. So while there are turkeys there are also swans.
Japerton
(now go bid on my stuff and I will only charge you actual shipping)
- who wants to get her estate sale chops back...some day soon...
posted on September 18, 2002 05:08:59 AM new
Shipping and Handling is always a sticking point when it comes down to auctions. A buyer sees the USPS price and wonders why they have to pay more than what what USPS charges. My time is important and is worth money. Packing time, cost of the material, in both the box and the packing material cost money. If the shipping and handling is clearly posted in the auction description, then there is not a lot to be said on this.
posted on September 18, 2002 07:32:53 AM new
thchaser200 ...
I am not questioning the value of your time, and I agree that as a businessperson, you should be paid for your time.
I also agree 100% that if a buyer agrees to pay the stated handling graft when s/he places a bid, then s/he has no reason to complain. If I kill my parents, I don't think a "please be lenient ... I'm an orphan" defense would work well in a Court of Law either.
To all sellers who feel they need to be paid for their time, try this:
Include the costs of your time in the selling price of your item
IOW:
1. Don't show it as an extra "handling" charge.
2. Do like all real businesses do and include your costs of doing business in your selling price - compete honestly.
I disagree, in the computer industry, it is common to add a handling fee to every order. To pack up a computer or computer part takes more time than placing something in a bubble mailer.
Here is a good example, Tech Data, which is a leading distributor of computer hardware and software adds a $ 5.00 charge to every order under $ 1500.00. The are being complete honest on it.
It would be dishonest not to list the shipping and handling charge on the auction discription then hit the bidder with it after he wins the bid. But if the shipping and handling is placed in the auction discription and the bid is placed, then there should be no dispute on the auction.
posted on September 18, 2002 09:06:50 AM new
How about the NFL Bobble Head industry?
Or the videotape industry?
There should be no dispute about costs if the buyer "signs" the agreement. There should also not be any added "handling" costs. Real business does not do this- they build their selling prices to include their costs of packaging, warehousing, staff, electricity, taxes and all that other stuff. If the resultant selling price comes out too high and they cannot compete, they either streamline their costs or find another way to make money.
When was the last time you went into a store to buy something and the price tag showed the item cost and an extra handing cost?
posted on September 19, 2002 08:45:24 AM new
To RB:
Real busineses, eh? Do you consider Amazon.com a "real" business? How about Crutchfield? Or Dell Computers? How about CDNow.com? Hmmmm? They all charge handling for shipments. I guess in your little self-contained world it's graft, but in the real world it's quite normal.
posted on September 19, 2002 09:15:15 AM new
That's why I don't buy much at Amazon either.
I buy a lot of DVD's at Future Shop. I can buy the identical DVD at the local FS store or the FS on-line store for the exact same price. However, the on line store has a "shipping and handling fee" added to the price.
Why would I want to buy the DVD on line?
All I am trying to say, and has been proven once again in this thread, is that the phrase "handling fee" scares away a lot of potential bidders.
Consider this:
1. You want $10.00 for your item.
2. It's going to cost you $2.00 for a box to ship it in.
3. It's going to cost you $3.00 to cover your time to wrap it, address it and get it into the delivery stream.
4. The actual shipping cost is $5.00.
You can list it in one of two ways:
1. Selling price of $15.00 plus $5.00 actual shipping, or,
2. Selling price of $10.00 plus $10.00 shipping and handling.
While both statements are true, most buyers would do the impulsive thing and chose option 2 even knowing in the back of their mind that their landed cost is going to be twice as much (why pay $15.00 for something when I can get it for $10.00?). They'll get it, then start whnging about the excessive handling fee (even though they knew it was coming).
In most of your arguments, you refer to a handling fee as "graft". Where's the graft in your examples? With either option I see a total cost to bidder of $20. You state the cost of packaging, etc as being $5 and the actual cost of shipping to be $5. Therefore option #2, with a $10 shipping & handling fee, is just as legitimate as option #1. In reality, you're leaving money on table with option #1 since eBay will compute fees based final auction value ($15 vs $10) and you still have the $10 cost of shipping to pay. Personally, if it costs me $10 to package and ship an item, I don't want eBay getting a percentage of my charge to the bidder that is intended to recover that cost.
posted on September 19, 2002 12:20:38 PM new
OK OK OK ALREADY (in my best Joe Pesci voice)
I believe twelvepole has hit the nail squarely on the head with this observation:
Because bidders look at the starting price first and not the S&H, starting at $10 might get the seller more bids.
I do understand there are costs associated with doing business.
I also do agree that a bidder should read the fine print before placing a bid. I have zero sympathy for someone like the OP who knew what the costs were going in, bid anyway, then started whinging about the costs!
My problem is how these costs are recovered by the seller. Everyone has a handling cost! Those sellers who have enough confidence in their items and who are not afraid to compete on prices build that cost into their selling price.
I know that some sellers don't want to give eBay a cut of their handling costs ( fee avoidance? ), but that's not the issue.
I think the point that you are missing RB is that ONLY the seller knows what it takes to pack, ship and get an item delivered.
Not missing that at all
In most of your arguments, you refer to a handling fee as "graft". Where's the graft in your examples?
I haven't been specific in my examples in this thread as this topic has been argued back and forth ad nauseum/absurdium. I know for a fact that there are many eBay sellers who will openly tell you that their handling costs include not just the packaging, but nebulous little things like:
- gas to drive to the post office,
- time to fill out the customs form,
- portion of ISP costs to send a "pay me" email,
- portion of mortgage for their "eBay room",
- time to stand in line at the post office,
- portion of their eBay fees,
- portion of their PayPal fees,
- yada yada yada
These are "Costs of Doing Business". An honourable seller will add these to the cost of their item and arrive at a selling price. The others will add this as a handling charge and try to justify it using the above type of argument.
The fact is a selling price in big bold letters at the top of a listing with a large amount tacked on as an extra "handling charge" in tiny little letters at the bottom of the listing (not talking shipping costs here) is almost misrepresentation.
posted on September 19, 2002 12:47:00 PM new
Now that you're being specific, I agree with you. You were making blanket statements that handling fees are graft with which I don't agree. Also, I can't see charging an appropriate amount to recover shipping costs as fee avoidance.
posted on September 20, 2002 11:20:23 PM new
Yeh, I got pretty ticked about an auction I won recently...was the only bidder, and shipping cost would be provided the buyer at end of auction...well, I didn't think it would be much since the item was a couple of cheap lightweight jewelry trinkets.
I got hammered with $7.95 shipping fee, but decided to write it off for "suckin eggs".
I'm real careful to check out shipping fees now and if they aren't listed and the auction is getting close to finishing, I don't bid. So sellers who don't list clear shipping costs and shipping manner may be the loosers.
Not everyone selling on eBay is a professionl or has any customer satisfaction
sense.
In the case of $9 bucks and shoddy shipping: If I were that seller, I would GLADLY refund a few bucks on this case, knowing that good customer relations would pay back later.
We deserve to have bubble-wrap and extra shipping expenses covered. However, if we are looking to make money off shipping, I think that will backfire in the long run.
High shipping fees have made me think twice about bidding on a few items. I think the higher postal rates have had a negative effect on sales...at least to some small extent. Good Grief! Maybe I'll train some pidgeons to deliver the small stuff!
posted on September 21, 2002 10:38:08 AM new
RB...
I totally disagree with adding the cost of Shipping and/or Handling in the bid price. Are you a eBay employee working to try and increase their profit????? For every penny you add to the bid price to cover YOUR expenses, eBay gets a cut without incurring any extra expense. A sweet deal for eBay and its employees, not for the seller.
That is the business for me....everyone else paying me for nothing in order to cover their expenses.....
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
[ edited by mlecher on Sep 21, 2002 10:39 AM ]
posted on September 21, 2002 11:16:33 AM new
Hey!
I’ve just gotten a fantastic idea for a resolution to the S&H issue.
If you go to the ebay site for a search
http://pages.ebay.com/search/items/basicsearch.html
and type in
(Handling,S&H,)
in ‘Words To Exclude”
You’ll be able to avoid all items where those words appear.
The Choice is yours.
Buy items based on shipping charges rather than value of goods!?!?!?,…
What geniuses some of you ‘Low.End.Buyer$’ are….
If you want something for nothing, go to a soup kitchen!!
posted on September 21, 2002 05:58:19 PM new
IF buyers would stop paying the ridiculous shipping/handling fees some sellers charge, then gouging sellers would get their shipping prices in line.
By and large I am a seller, but the few times I have desired to purchase an item, I am always apprehensive of a seller who way over charges on their shipping. I just get the feeling that they may be a bit questionable to deal with.....it seems to me that they are either trying to gouge me, or cheat eBay – and neither action makes we want to do business with such a person.
posted on September 21, 2002 06:07:57 PM new
Personally, I won’t pay “handling fees.” If the seller isn’t a good enough business person, to know how to buy low and sell at a price to cover his costs, then I’m certainly not going to pay extra to deal with them.
It seems many sellers need to learn how to procure merchandise at a better price, and they wouldn’t have to tack on “handling” fees, they could put the “cost of doing business” in the price as most retail stores do. Wal-Mart doesn’t charge you a “handling charge” for putting your items in a bag, and I for one won’t charge my customers an extra fee for putting their item in a box.
I realize there are exceptions, such as the shipping of large, expensive, highly breakable items, but I am speaking of the run of the mill eBay merchandise.
??????????
