fluffythewondercat
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posted on September 21, 2002 09:49:13 PM new
If the seller isn’t a good enough business person, to know how to buy low and sell at a price to cover his costs, then I’m certainly not going to pay extra to deal with them.
Your argument is fallacious in any environment in which the BUYER sets the final price...such as an auction.
Really, JWPC, you've been around long enough, I'm surprised you don't understand this by now.
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fluffythewondercat
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posted on September 21, 2002 09:54:19 PM new
austbounty: What geniuses some of you ‘Low.End.Buyer$’ are….
I'll be roundly shouted down for this, I know, but what it boils down to is whether you bid on emotion or on cold logic.
Think there's no emotion involved? No anger? No resentment? Go back and re-read the comments of those who feel they've been "gouged" or shipping is "outrageous" even when the s/h is stated right up front!
There is no reasoning with these people because they don't make purchasing decisions based on reason.
A rational evaluation of a purchase takes into consideration the total price, not the individual components. And it certainly doesn't care if the seller is making a (sssshh, say it softly) profit on shipping.
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RB
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posted on September 22, 2002 08:22:05 AM new
At least us "low end buyers" have enough smarts to understand what has been said in the previous 60 odd posts. Others really need to read them again to understand the issue.
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austbounty
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posted on September 22, 2002 09:54:36 AM new
The real issue is,
Lower End Buyer$ don’t want to pay a reasonable amount for packaging and handling (don’t give me some line about dumpster diving for boxes and 85c for handling and tape.) and hope to perpetuate an ethos of charging ‘actual postage’, by posting bull #*!@ on chat boards.
The truth is they can’t accept that the crap they want to buy may not be worth someone’s effort to pack and send.
The truth is that the market will pay the price if the item is worth $.
Sell 1oz of gold for $1 …with $100 handling, and I’ll tell you what any reasonable buyer would do,
Any smart buyer or bullion dealer for that matter would snap it up and kiss your ass to boot (metaphorically speaking of coarse.)
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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austbounty
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posted on September 22, 2002 10:08:36 AM new
Of to a tangent for a moment,
It seems amazing and even ironic that this chat board can permit postings declaring a willingness to shoot a man because of his political beliefs but my previous posting was edited , it seems automatically, because I used a colloquial term for a bull’s faeces. Is this perhaps an effort to avoid anyone being offended.
What a philanthropic bunch we are, but as far as some here are concerned, my granny still can’t earn $4.00/hour.
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mlecher
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posted on September 22, 2002 10:15:03 AM new
What really amazes me it the number of people who want to pay eBay a portion of THEIR expenses. And complain like hell when someone charges 2 cents over postage, calling it graft and gouging. They should be company executives....IN BIZZARRO WORLD!
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
[ edited by mlecher on Sep 22, 2002 10:15 AM ]
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dosky4
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posted on September 22, 2002 12:03:19 PM new
SELLERS OPEN YOUR EYES. You see you only make people angry. Can you see you ruin the business? This guy is the perfect example of what is happening on Ebay, and I am one of them too. Buyers are going to stop buying if you don't stop GOUGING the shipping. Unless you stop this bad practices we are all going to lose.
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RB
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posted on September 22, 2002 04:31:48 PM new
dosky4 ... thank you. Someone else sees it too 
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twelvepole
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posted on September 22, 2002 04:43:04 PM new
Ok lets look at your way RB
Same identical items:
1. Seller A has item opening bid of $10... no shipping listed.
2. Seller B has item opening bid $10 but shows Shipping and Handling will be $9.00
Which auction would most people bid on?
Probably Seller A, until after winning the auction Seller A then tells you it is $15 for S&H. In which case you now have no choice in the matter.
This seller had his S&H right up front, not gouging in the least, the bidder had all the info needed to make an informed decision.
Seller A in my case has no shipping listed, and therefore can make it whatever he wants.
That to me is gouging but then again you should always ask.
Seller B has his S&H right there for all to see, no suprises for anyone, if you want to know how shipment will be made just ask...
I do agree with others here that, when I bid, I add in shipping to my max amount and if it is more than I am willing to pay I just wait someone else will have the item.
Ain't Life Grand... 
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austbounty
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posted on September 22, 2002 05:00:11 PM new
RB & Dosky & others.
You show us no evidence or logic, only your assurance that you will not buy off others like me.
Look at my last 10FB
They Love Me and KEEP ON BUYING!!!
Over 200+ve and no –ve.
Some Items >$5000.00
Up-To $20-Handling and rising.
Praise : superbe Shelley. PERFECT PACKAGING, great seller
Praise : Fantastic service! Figurine arrived today incredibly packed thankyou very much.
Praise : plate arrived in perfect shape-MANY THANKS!!!
Praise : Outstanding transaction. Thanks- Gary
Praise : FAST & SMOOTH TRANSACTION, HIGHLY RECOMENDED
Praise : well packed and arrived in great condition. Thanks. +++++AAAA
Praise : Excellent transaction, lovely item and well packed. A++++
Praise : Unbelievably well-packed - a work of art. Prisitine item and fast and friendly
Praise : GREAT item from a GREAT seller! Smooth transaction, highly recommend! * *
Praise : Beautiful merchandise, fast and safe shipping!!! AAA+++
Please fulfil your promise and don’t buy from me!!!!
Grab yourself a torch and hit the garage sales, nice and early;… they don’t charge handling!!
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 22, 2002 08:41:23 PM new
You are so right about this subject RB. People don't do things for fun anymore, unless they're paid. I can't imagine asking someone else to pay for my gas, time in line, office supplies, etc. That comes out of the profit you make on the item. If you're not making a good profit on the items you're selling then it's not up to the buyers to compensate you. It's pretty clear to me.
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beowolf
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posted on September 22, 2002 09:07:25 PM new
BOTTOM LINE....
S/H STATED CLEARLY IN AUCTION
YOU BOUGHT IT KNOWING WHAT IT WAS AND WERE WILLING TO PAY IT
YOU RECEIVED IT IN GOOD CONDITION
NOW ALL OF YOU SHUT UP ABOUT IT
IT'S STUPID
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captian23
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posted on September 22, 2002 09:55:35 PM new
My god, I can not believe what I am reading. When you bid on an item you bid on the total price (S&H + Bid). If you feel the item is worth the total price then bid if not then don't. What is the difference (except to eBay) if the bid is $5 and the shipping is free or if the bid is a penny and the postage is $4.99? If I put a car on eBay with a buy it now of 1.00 but with a $24,000 delivery charge how much does the car cost?
The problem is most people don't read the terms of the auction and just bid on the bid price. They then get mad when the shipping is more then they intended to pay. They completly forget about what they paid for the item. "I can't believe you are charging $5 to ship this 1952 Mickey Mantle which I won for a dollar, it only cost $0.37 for a stamp!"
And how come nobody gets upset when a catalog charges outragous shipping?
I do however get upset if the item is not packed properly, the seller should figure his/her costs properly to ship it in an acceptable fashon.
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 22, 2002 10:10:03 PM new
The problem I see captian23, is a seller that states (for instance) $5.00 shipping. The item arrives and the shipping was only $2.00. Whether the item arrived in good shape or not is moot. The seller stated the shipping was $5.00 and it wasn't. That's deceptive unless they a/ refund the difference, or b/ state in the auction that $2.00 is for shipping and $3.00 is a service charge, handling fee, or whatever. If sellers were up front about things, we'd never keep repeating this discussion.
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captian23
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posted on September 22, 2002 10:12:35 PM new
Did they say shipping or shipping and handling? There is a difference.
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 22, 2002 10:25:22 PM new
If a seller states $5.00 shipping and handling, then it's clear to the buyer what they're paying for. It's the "grey" parts, the parts that aren't that clear that brings on misunderstandings. Saying the shipping is $5.00 when it's only $2.00 is dishonest. Saying shipping is $2.00 and handling is $3.00 isn't.
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austbounty
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posted on September 22, 2002 11:18:28 PM new
Buyer pays fixed shipping charges.
See item description for shipping charges.
DUH!!!!
I reckon he's makin' enuf on the booblehead thingy.
.
.
.
dosky4 asks....."Can you see you ruin the business?"
OH .... so that's it, you low end buyer$ are concerned that I might ruin my business.
Like I said,,,, What a load of bull $hit!!
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rarriffle
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posted on September 23, 2002 02:12:35 AM new
As a seller I do my best to charge actual shipping charges...much harder since the new USPS changes took effect..but I am still within $.50 usually.
As a buyer I know pretty well what the shipping charge will be and if the charge is not stated or is more than $1.00 over what it should be...I DO NOT BID....these sellers are costing themselves money as I am sure I am not the only one who doesn't bid.
If they were being fair with the shipping charge the final bids might be significantly more.
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RB
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posted on September 23, 2002 06:25:20 AM new
The problem is most people don't read the terms of the auction and just bid on the bid price.
Another one sees the light! Now, if that price included the seller's graft, everyone would be happy
I find it amazing how many people can post to this thread with their comments when they don't have any idea of what the issue is.
Any when those types who tell the people who do understand to shut up, and yell that the entire discussion is stupid show up, I figure enough has been said.
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austbounty
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posted on September 23, 2002 07:30:29 AM new
jefflh12 says
"He made a profit of $5 on his shipping!!...Yeah I know I bought the item on the terms of his sale, but I still can't hack this rip off..."
Yeah!!!
What a Capitalist pig!!
String'him-up it’ll teach him a lesson.
Well,..........
you've realy won me over, with your fine arguments.
I won't take the kids on a holiday this year, instead, I'm guna start charging "actual postage" and possibly win-over some of you guys as customers,,
........Nah!!...Just kiding...you can stay where you are.
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twelvepole
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posted on September 23, 2002 07:40:52 AM new
LOL
Ain't Life Grand...
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mlecher
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posted on September 23, 2002 08:44:46 AM new
Now another one has to be educated...
kraftdinner...
repeat until you get it....
Shipping is not Postage, Postage is not shipping.
when will all these second-guessing psychic-shippers get it.....
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A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
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getkicksonrte66
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posted on September 23, 2002 08:57:33 AM new
For those of you who insist, and defend that the seller did nothing sleezy must obviously operate with the same MO mentality. Sellers that stoop to this level for additional profit are nothing short of thiefs in my eyes. Thats my opinion and I'm sticking to it.
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mlecher
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posted on September 23, 2002 09:24:59 AM new
So you have made your decision..
Okay, we won't confuse you with the facts and the truth.
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 23, 2002 09:51:22 AM new
mlecher, that's the grey area I'm talking about. The problem lies with sellers that don't want to advertise the extra fees they charge, so they list $5.00 for 'shipping'... the item only costs $2.00 to ship, so the $3.00 is a hidden fee not mentioned. This is what causes confusion with buyers. Honest sellers don't have a problem stating their fees. Dishonest sellers hide the fees hoping nobody will complain or notice. If someone does, they get mad and blame everything on the stupidity of the buyer for not checking things out. It's the new buyers that get shafted. Seasoned buyers know better.
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austbounty
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posted on September 23, 2002 10:11:37 AM new
Yeah!!…
Hidden!!!!….
He only said ‘5’ and the 3 was hidden.
Other numbers were actually hidden too, as with the 2 and the .00
That’s not to say the ‘5’ was hidden; only some of it’s component numbers.
Odds, evens, prime numbers, fractions, decimals, I reckon he may even had hidden some percentages.
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mlecher
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posted on September 23, 2002 10:51:43 AM new
And how do YOU know the $3.00 is profit? Are you PSYCHIC or something. What if he charged $5.00 to ship it and it cost him $7.00 after all is said and done and he decides to eat the rest of the expense. So it comes to you and the postage was $4.00, does that mean he is a CROOK? Or are you just an uninformed whiner?
.
A Man will spend $2.00 for a $1.00 item he needs.
A Woman will spend $1.00 for a $2.00 item she doesn't need.
[ edited by mlecher on Sep 23, 2002 10:53 AM ]
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kraftdinner
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posted on September 23, 2002 11:24:17 AM new
mlecher, who said the extra $3.00 was profit? I said the $3.00 was the hidden fee. If the shipping was actually $5.00 then no problem. If the seller stated $5.00 s&h then no problem. If the seller says $5.00 shipping and it's only $2.00, then there's a problem. You can't skirt around it. Buyers just want sellers to be up front and honest about their extra fees, that's all. Sure, you can only be burned once, but there are a lot of sellers out there who practice this. It's not fair to buyers who are forced to do all the leg work to find out what a sellers actual charges are. Why hide it? Just be up front & avoid all the emails and nasty notes.
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RB
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posted on September 23, 2002 01:10:51 PM new
Why hide it?
Because some sellers are greedy sons of roaches and cannot see the forest for the trees.
More and more sellers who "need" that handling charge to make a profit (or even break even these days) are losing sales. Eventually, they will either figure it out or go completely out of business.
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intrigueantiques
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posted on September 23, 2002 06:27:45 PM new
Personally, I have always disliked "handling" fees and have never charged them. But I LOVED US Priority Mail when you could actually quote a shipping cost without knowing where the person lived in the US.
Now that we can't, I've been considering setting standard shipping fees ~ flat rates ~ and quoting them in my auctions. Yes, sometimes it would be lower and sometimes it would be higher than actual costs. But I think it's fairer to the bidder to know the shipping cost ahead of time than to find out how high it is later.
Haven't done it yet but I'm seriously considering it. And my point is...
Sometimes there is a reason a shipping cost doesn't make exact sense. But if you knew what it was and agreed upon it, consider it the cost of doing business on ebay.
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