posted on January 9, 2001 12:55:18 PM new
I have a sister who has two sons. One is 13 and being confirmed this May and as a requirement has to perform 40 hours of community service. He was given this information in early October and has yet to lift a finger to do anything.
Yesterday, he got a phone call from his religion teacher that there was a woman who lived nearby and needed some assistance in shoveling around her car. She looked up the confirmation kids' addresses to see who lived closest to the lady and asked him if he would be willing to help her out. He headed over there, shovel in hand and did the job. It took just about an hour.
The lady offered him $30 and he took the cash. Now he can't use that towards his community service. When I pointed out that he could not use that as time off his service requirement, her reply was: "What? Is he supposed to that for nothing?"
I couldn't believe what I was hearing. No, it's not for nothing, it's to fulfill is obligation to perform community service. The good deed in and of itself should be the reward and the lesson that helping someone in need of assistance is purely the right thing to do.
posted on January 9, 2001 01:35:52 PM new
I wasn't clear on who you spoke to that said:
"What? Is he supposed to that for nothing?"
Wow. Could you speak to the boy? Perhaps if you explained the principle involved, he would voluntarily return the money. You know...define "service." Sheesh.
posted on January 9, 2001 01:41:28 PM new
Community Service is taught in the home. If by the age of 13, he has not seen his parents or other family members actively involved in any volunteering, then chances are he will never "get" it. It's too bad, too, because most community organizations cannot get by without it.
posted on January 9, 2001 02:23:13 PM new
I agree with the others, sounds like kerryanns sister didn't "get" it, so how could she teach her son?
My daughter is in the Girl Scouts, but before that she had participated in Toys for Tots and our other favorite charitable groups, some of which involves picking up garbage. I hope it builds character.
$30 bucks an hour. My husband doesn't make that much. Seems like this young man had no empathy for the woman at all.
I'm not a member of any church or organization, so I have no idea. Doesn't confirmation require classes of some sort?
posted on January 9, 2001 02:44:04 PM new
Sorry about the confusion. It was my sister who said, "What? Should he do it for nothing?" Meanwhile, she knows full well that he has this obligation to fulfill.
When I mentioned the fulfilling the community service point to her, the younger son had on a smirk/smile type face like, Yeah, right, just give me the money. Frankly, I was appalled.
Yes, the older boy goes go to religious instruction every Tuesday from 4 to 5:15. It was in the beginning of the school year, in that instruction class that he was given the paper with headings for Date, Service Performed and a spot for the signature of the person he did the work for. It's blank and I wouldn't be surprised if it stayed that way.
My sister is making no effort to get him to do this, nor is she explaining the importance of compassion, helpfulness and the satifaction that comes with knowing you helped someone and did a good deed for no other reason than it was the right thing to do. She's a bitter person in general. Her answer is, "Well, he's just gonna have to do it." but then offers no help, follow through or emphasis that this is an important part of character development.
I'm actually hoping that they will not allow him to be confirmed if he does not fulfill this requirement. I have no idea what they would do.
Of course, there's always the possibility that my sister will ask family members and friends to write that he helped them and sign it even though it would be bogus. They know better than to ask me to do that. I'd be tempted to write to the school and tell them it's bogus.
I just can't for the life of me understand the complete absence of understanding that this is an important thing for the kid to do.
posted on January 9, 2001 02:55:43 PM new
After being iced in for 5 weeks last month, a neighbor (30 - 32 years old) came over and asked if we'd like him to break up and remove the ice on our almost 3 acre long, slanting, drive-way. We were thrilled.
We offered to pay him when he was done and his statement to us was, "No Ma'am, but thank you for offering. My daddy raised me to be helpful to others when I could. It's my pleasure to do this for you."
Sure is nice to know someone who has a 'daddy' that taught him to care about others.
posted on January 9, 2001 04:11:28 PM new
oh, no better truth...we teach our kids soooo much by our actions and less by our words
and we all make mistakes doing it
sometimes a physiological condition in the child is the cause...but too often it's what they've learned ~ or what the parent has taken no time to teach them.
this past Christmas I got a list of names of shut-ins and sent a small package to them...I was soooo happy when every family member wanted to help out somehow...one addressed all the packages with a fancy pen, everybody helped...it felt so good.
but it's just a small part of the solution. And remember, these 13 year olds will one day be in charge of the decision making for the country, and the care of their parents.
posted on January 9, 2001 04:57:27 PM new
Ugh, this will be unpopular...
Volunteering, IMO, should come from the heart, not imposed as a condition, although I understand the intentions.
Yes, it helps if parents do it, it sets a standard...but most kids rebel against those standards before they return to them later in life. And it helps if society advocates it.
But the purest form of giving is when you do what feels right to you, not to *win* something or fulfill somebody else's conditions, but because it seems to you the right thing to do.
My son is probably a lot like your nephew. He WILL NOT do a single thing if it's expected of him, he's already a dyed-in-the-wool non-conformist at age 9.
Yet...from time to time, I hear about things he's done on his own. One time, the principal of his school called up to say he was in the office because he was handing out dollar bills, he'd given away about $30.00. He'd worked long and hard for that money, it was meant to buy the Nintendo he wanted very badly.
I asked him why, he looked at me darkly, but finally said it was because they didn't have money for ice cream, and he wanted them to be able to eat it.
Silly, I suppose, but it warmed my heart.
The point is that people (and kids are people) find their own way, particularly after a certain age. As parents, we can ask, demand, beg, and model (and that works better in the long run, as others have pointed out), but there are no guarantees, only joys and sorrows. They aren't really mirrors of us, as much as we'd like them to be, or as much as we fear that they will be, depending on the perspective.
So this one is passively aggressive in his approach to this community service requirement? All right, maybe it's not really *his* goal. Maybe it's somebody else's goal...
posted on January 9, 2001 05:02:11 PM new
Meya is right. I am sorry they are like that but your chances of changing them are very small. I have relatives like that and I refuse to associate with them. It is a great embarrassment to the other relatives that I won't enable their behavior by pretending they are not slime balls.
I am wondering to what purpose the religion class is? Don't they explain why they ask community service? Don't they teach any of the associated principles? I can't imaigine that they just hand out the paper and say you have to do this - so I would not feel like it is entirely up to you to explain this to the boy. I am sure he has had some explaination of it but either doesn't get it or thinks it is a typical hypocritical thing that people are trying to fool him into doing and they don't really believe it themselves. That is always an easy rationalization.
[ edited by gravid on Jan 9, 2001 06:55 PM ]
posted on January 9, 2001 06:59:36 PM new
Just to add - I was passing out pamplets for a cause I thought well of and a fellow took one looked at it and asked who makes money from this? I told him we are volunteers and it was written and printed from donations.
He said - " If there wasn't money in it nobody would do it."
I don't know how he thinks candy stripers and workers in soup kitchens are secretly rolling in the big bucks.
posted on January 9, 2001 10:13:31 PM new
dcj, my hat is off to you. I commend you for the wonderful job you have done raising your son.
I'll bet when it comes time for him to do community service he will happily come up with his own idea - which will make it worth all the more!
What we were talking about was the fact that the other child would not and the parent did not expect them to do any community service, that anything the child did was to be paid.
That is not a good lesson to teach a child.
It would have been far more redeeming had the mother told her son that he needed to do community service - letting him pick what he wanted to do, possibly making several suggestions to him. I get the idea that the mother didn't feel he should have to do it.
posted on January 10, 2001 07:43:51 AM new
Forty hours of community service is a requirement for graduation at our local school. At the commencement ceremony, as each name is called, the hours of service they performed is also mentioned.
It can be anything - from taking out the trash for an elderly neighbor to babysitting.
How sad that your sister is backing him up on this. God, I hope my kids are picking up better stuff than that from us.
posted on January 10, 2001 07:55:47 AM new
I was confirmed (Roman Catholic) back in the early 60s and there was no requirement for community service.
When I was growing up the only memory I have of a required community service was for the Boy Scout Citizenship merit badge. That merit badge was (and hopefully still is) one of the required badges if you wanted to become an Eagle Scout.
I suspect that lax present day attitudes among our youth about community service and just being helpful when the opportunity presents itself are the direct result of the affluence our society by in large has enjoyed since WW II.
People don't make things anymore. Why bother when it is so convenient to just purchase whatever you want? Even to the point of buying hand crafted items. Home cooking is now a feature of restaurant chains (like Folks here in the Southeast). The list goes on and on and even though there are many very prominent exceptions (ie., the home improvement craze) they are exceptions when contrasted with the habits of our society at large.
We have become so accustomed to buying everything that we have fallen into the habit of trying to buy things that simply can't (and never will) be obtained by money.
I feel particularly fortunate to have parents of the old school. My mother was always active in the church and the Deborah Foundation. My father was a blood donor at every opportunity and I recall him receiving a pin for a cumulative donation of several gallons of blood while I was still a young adult. My father was the local scoutmaster for years and to this day maintains a very active relationship with the Scouting movement.
During the 60s, when many groups were just beginning to get their fund raising schemes fully organized, my father opted instead to get the scout troop involved in recycling newspapers. Instead of going door to door flogging candy bars, magazine subscriptions or wrapping paper, the Scouts performed a community service that also raised funds for the troop.
When I was attending college one year and wasn't able to secure a summer job, my father insisted that I perform some community service as a way of "earning my keep". I helped out at the local hospital.
As an adult living in the heart of suburbia I find that opportunities to be of service to the community and to others seem more limited. And as a father of a young child I am already concerned about how I will help to teach her by example.
I believe that helping one's neighbors and the community in general is still a large part of the social fabric in more rural areas and this is one reason why I am interested in making the move to our property in southwestern Virginia as soon as possible.
_____________________________________________
Hello Diana,
Long time since I've spoken to you. I agree completely that personal values are based on what comes from within a person and not what is imposed on them by others.
posted on January 10, 2001 08:03:17 AM new
Greetings, Fred -
I'll never forget the virtual experience of waiting for your little beauty Claire...it was the first time I ever felt drawn through the screen, so to speak. That little one has been blessed with the most enormous love. She already has the best gift she could hope for...
posted on January 10, 2001 09:24:53 AM newI am wondering to what purpose the religion class is? Don't they explain why they ask community service? Don't they teach any of the associated principles? I can't imaigine that they just hand out the paper and say you have to do this
Gravid....you'd been surprized!!!
When my son received confirmation, he too had the community service requirement. At that time (bout 3 years ago) there was absolutely NO guidance from religious ed on how/where/when to do this service....Basically, they were handed the form & told they had to have it completed....Seemed to me at the time that there should have been a few lessons on the subject, a group outting to perform a community service (joining a volunteer group can be difficult for those who've never done it - doing something with a group of peers is easier) & a master list of the organizations/people in the community who could use the efforts of these young people....We had none of that!....Luckily, at the time, I was up to my eyeballs in volunteerism, and my son had already been quite involved & he was able to complete his service & I even got a few more kids involved....
My children attend public schools & attend religious education classes once a week after school. At religious ed they are taught the rules & laws of our religion, however the majority of their lessons about "living" as a Christian come from me.
Linda_k....What a wonderful neighbor you have!....God Bless Him!
posted on January 10, 2001 09:53:09 AM new
Rancher - Glad you are that kind of parent and AWARE of what extra they need they are not getting.
I only went to public school. Thank goodness there was a library so I could learn something on my own.
posted on January 10, 2001 11:04:13 AM newRancher: That is the exact same situation. He's in public school and attends the instruction once a week. They have offered no suggestions at the school for doing this service. The instructor did, however, call him and give him a heads up on the shoveling job.
I asked my sister about it again and she said she thinks it's bullsh*t that he has to do it at all. Too many hours. She's positive that the other kids are going to write down bogus things and have friends and relatives sign off on them. I don't believe that. God, I hope it's not true.
She's going to write down that he spent a couple of hours helping my father sweep. I told her he should help his elderly grandfather sweep for nothing. No response.
I have no interest in attending this confirmation. The kid was disgusted that he had to spend an hour after school in religious instruction but brightened up when informed that confirmation brings cards with money inside. Now that's all he's looking forward to.
Well, I'm not attending and I'm not handing off a card with money in it either unless this community service requirement is fulfilled legitimately.
posted on January 10, 2001 12:59:09 PM new
Kerryann -
I applaud you for sticking to your guns. At least he will remember that you taught him a lesson that his mother wouldn't.
A few years ago my nephew stole about $140 from me. I used to be the cool Aunt Becky that would give them $5 when I saw them, along with a hug - just because. Well, after the theft his parents never did anything about making him repay them money. Well, to this day that boy has not gotten another present from me - except at Christmas. AND no more money when he sees me. Someday I hope he figures out it is wrong to steal. If nothing else he has now found out that Aunt Becky will not tolerate such behavior!
As far as your sister lying on that paper, I guess she feels it is OK to lie to the church. That nullifies his confirmation to me. THAT is a lesson he will remember for a long time - that lies are OK as long as you get what you want!
And, who will pay in the end? Your sister, of course! He will not have any trouble at all lying to her ....
posted on January 10, 2001 02:41:30 PM new
kerryann...It's so sad to see that they haven't changed their strategy in all these years...Truthfully, when my son first brought the form home, my initial reaction was something like "Geez, criminals get less hours for crimes committed!" Of course, the lack of information on this assignment, lead right to that conclusion!.....Without any guidance these kids were clueless on what to do & there was quite a bit of forgery going on (Great lesson for a church to teach, eh?).....Our local civic organization has gotten very good at putting these kids to work (tell a group that's low on volunteers that there are kids out there who HAVE to volunteer & you'd be surprized on how quickly they can find something for them to do!).....I admire your stand & conviction on this issue, even tho' it will probably cause one of those ugly family rifts!....Good luck to ya!!
The community service mandate has such potential for really helping a community & reinforcing in a community the "heart & caring" of the church, as well as proving that not all teens are creatures to be feared (of course unless you're their parents, but that's a whole nuther discussion! )....If the religious ed powers that be could "get it together" they could create a "week of help" where members of the community could submit their requests (ie. yard work, painting, cleaning help, etc) & then the kids, along with a volunteer parent (hey, they learn by the examples that we set) could go out & do the work. Each volunteer would be issued a t-shirt with a catchy slogan like "Help thy neighbor & make it last throughout the year"....Local papers could promote the event.....Imagine driving around the town & seeing all these t-shirted people working hard to help a neighbor & to make the community a better place & seeing the results.....It could evolve into ecumenical event, where the kids could not only do the work buy learn to work side by side with others of different faiths..It could even sweep the country & become a national event!...Ah, but I suppose that is just a dream....Too bad to, cause it's a good one!....
posted on January 10, 2001 04:09:30 PM new
After hearing the whole story and comments I guess I have to say they are probably not aware they ARE confirming, but not what they think....
My feeling on this is that in a perfect world, the PARENTS would be teaching their children the value of community service. But just like sex education, this area of life skills gets left to the schools.
As evidenced by examples given by posters, there ARE plenty of people who shovel walks, bring meals, or run errands for those less able. As Linda_K noted in her story of the helpful neighbor, the young man did it because it was right, not just to get paid. He said his Daddy raised him that way.
Well, how DO you teach kids to become such helpful, giving adults? I'll bet that man's father MADE him go help out a relative or a neighbor whenever he saw a need. Just like my Mom made me go to my Grandmother's and help her clean and do laundry. Just like she made me help my brother with his homework or shovel our driveway. Yes, I was forced to do it, I didn't just decide to be nice and helpful all the time.
While it's understandable that you would LIKE for your child to be self-motivated in this area, and help others of their own volition, I think it's clear that not all kids are going to do that on any regular basis. Kids NEED encouragement to go out and become useful, helpful, and caring. Making them do something in no way stifles their own altruism and at the least, it may encourage them to do more.
posted on January 10, 2001 06:32:48 PM new
Kerryann, I know it's frustrating to deal with that kind of mentality but I'm sure it would be a huge favor to your nephew if you could find a way to help him really see the value in helping others. Maybe you could convince him to go with you to visit the elderly at a nursing home or something else along those lines... Chances are he hasn't ever had the opportunity to understand first hand how rewarding it can be to help someone else. I agree that it's not at all your responsibility... but, it would be a lasting gift that you could give to him. Good luck -
posted on January 10, 2001 08:44:06 PM new
Rancher - Nickelodeon does that every year. They call it THE BIG HELP.
Absolutely amazing! The kids decide what they want to do - how long they want to do it - then some of them get to be on TV. The stars get behind it, too.
posted on January 10, 2001 09:14:09 PM new
When I was about 12 years old my Dad would go
every 2 or 3 weeks to this old Hungarian ladies home that was in our church and mow the lawn trim the hedges and so forth. She had a big deep lot with fruit trees and she put in a garden which she would not let us touch. He did not ask me - he just said get in the car we are going. That was good teaching by example. Sometimes my Mom would drop us off and go buy her some groceries
while we worked. She always insisted on cooking us lunch, and my Dad always insisted on getting everything done first because he would say you'll never be able to work after she feeds you lunch. She always set me a glass of cherry wine she made herself in a big crock which was the only time I ever drank anything at that age. I did not like the few things I had tried but that stuff was the swill of the gods. I still have never found any for sale that is as good.
She kept a big dog that as she put it was "not right in the head" to keep intruders away. One night we got a call to come because the dog had bitten her on the leg when she went to feed it. She had hit it over the head with the pot she was using to carry it food and she was afraid she had killed it. The dog was still unconscious when we got there but did come around with a big lump on the head.
My Dad was always worried it would attack her again but she always said "Oh no he is a good boy now. He stands back until I am done filling his dish." I bet I would too!
posted on January 11, 2001 09:17:08 AM new
Reading the posts with great interest and doing some thinking about ways to set an example.
Does anyone know the minimum age at which the Red Cross will accept blood donors? I know the minimum weight requirements could be met by most teenagers. Perhaps going to donate blood and asking your children to go with you (even if they cannot donate themselves) would be an appropriate lesson.
Many communities have annual spring cleanup days and then there is Arbor Day and Earth Day. All are good family oriented service activities.
How about the "Adopt A Road" and "Adopt A Stream" programs? I've seen signs where a family or subdivision has adopted a road or stream to keep tidy.
And at a very personal level, just taking the few seconds to pick up the odd piece of trash or soda can on your way to and from your car can be a very useful example to set.
posted on January 11, 2001 09:57:11 AM new
You have an option..... you can 'donate' money to your favorite charity in the name of your nephew, sister, etc. Then give them the card for their next birthday, christmas, etc. Just remember, don't give them any other present that time around.
Personally, that's what I would do if I were truely offended by their actions and wanted to tick them off.
Course, if you interfer in any way, shape or form, you'll tick someone off.. because it's none of your business how your sister raises her children.... UNLESS you feel she's being a bad, abusive parent.
It's obvious that your sister doesn't get it. Your nephew doesn't get it.... and, as with many people through out our lives, they're just going to through the actions, but not really thinking about what they're doing or absorbing what their doing (ie: obviously church going people if they're going through the confirmation process....... but neither the mother or child has a clue what everything really means)~ we call them Sunday Christains... because the only time they think of "god" or others is for 1 hour a week.. and that is while they're in church.
You can't change people like that.. and attempting to do so is an unwanted interference ..... and one that will cause a family rift.
posted on January 11, 2001 11:03:16 AM new
mrssantaclaus...thanx for the reminder, I forgot all about The Big Help (I do my best to avoid Nick! ) .....BTW, could you check to see what happened with my pony this year?...I've been really really good, and it's been years now that I've been hopin' that Mr. Claus would bring me one!
Gravid....Sounds like your parents did a fine job of techin' (by example) the right thing to do!...
rosiebud...I think your "option" is GREAT!...That would even work real well for the Confirmation gift!!!
Now, all these examples of great local (and national) programs....Am I alone in thinkin' that the church would be setting a fine example by joining together with groups like this or even starting there own programs?.....Or am I just goin' to the wrong church!....
posted on January 11, 2001 11:24:57 AM new
rancher24:
Am I alone in thinkin' that the church would be setting a fine example by joining together with groups like this or even starting there own programs?.....Or am I just goin' to the wrong church!
It's going to depend on church and the leaders of the church. I have found, that churches are more willing to lean towards volunteerism and helping the community, here in the south....... than they were in the SW 7 years ago. Different churches, different leaders, different religions. Sometimes it makes a huge difference. Some are more concerned with what goes on in other places (like South America, Africa, etc).. and others are more concerned as to what's happening in their own backyard. Sometimes it's hard to tell until you've been involved with the.
