posted on March 6, 2003 08:17:27 AM new
Well, when I called Paypal, this is exactly what the guy said, "International, there are no guarantees." So I asked, "if the buyer gets the package and lies that they never did, Paypal basically protects them, huh?" His reply, "Basically, yes."
So, I decided to threaten the buyer with filing mail fraud charges with the US post office and customs. All of a sudden, the buyer is now emailing me. They still claim to have not received it, but they are communicating. Immediately, they wanted to know how I could file mail fraud charges. I explained that by not requesting insurance or tracking with the purchase, and then claiming to have not received it and requesting a chargeback, they are in essence trying to defraud me out of my legal right to their payment. I gave them proof of shipment, but cannot track the item to their door because they didn't pay for that service. If they were willing to pay the additional $14 to send it registered, there wouldn't have been a problem. I think this got their attention, because I do have the US Customs receipt number for the package.
Of course, this looks good on an email, and probably scared the crap out of them, or at least made them realize I wasn't lying about shipping the item. It is amazing how their communication skills have dramatically changed now that I threatened mail fraud. Whether the Post Office would go for it is another story. I can still file a claim for mail fraud, and let the post office decide whether my claim is acceptable.
posted on March 6, 2003 11:34:46 AM new
If they do a chargeback and still don't return the item, wouldn't it be mail fraud? They can't have the money and the item, too.
posted on March 6, 2003 11:38:47 AM new
I mean in situations when they admit they have received it and do a chargeback. If they don't return the item, it must be mail fraud then.
posted on March 6, 2003 11:50:44 AM new
>>If they do a chargeback and still don't return the item, wouldn't it be mail fraud? They can't have the money and the item, too.
I mean in situations when they admit they have received it and do a chargeback. If they don't return the item, it must be mail fraud then. <<
This probably depends upon the reason for the charge back. If they claim they didn't get it and you can prove they did, it might be mail fraud. If they charge it back claiming it isn't as described, there is no mail fraud. It's still a crime to both keep it and the money but it would probably cost you more to sue them.
Once in a while, one of these clowns does get caught. There was a buyer on Yahoo who used Paydirect and kept charging back every purchase. Paydirect didn't even bother to contact the sellers, they just took back the money. What is particularly annoying is you would think that after the second time they would at least close her account. But they just let her continue doing this. One day, a group of sellers got together, realizing she had taken all of them. The one who lived closest to her became their representative. He went to her town and filed a police report. She was arrested and in order to avoid a trial and jail time, she had to pay every seller. Too bad it doesn't happen more often.
I am so sick of Visa and MC whining about credit card fraud. The issuing banks have a lot to do with it. If they see a pattern of someone doing a lot of charge backs, they should take note of it and act appropriately. But my contact in a large bank told me they don't bother, since it's easier for them to just pass on the cost. Maybe one day the wrong person will take the hit and sue the issuing bank for their own failure to act.
