posted on May 3, 2003 09:22:27 AM new
Comments like these do an injustice to every seller that posts on this board and they are totally uncalled for. You do insinuate that sellers are dishonest.
you wouldn't police yourselves, now pay the piper.
That way the small hobby sellers can keep on trucking and the "players" would be certified or be gone... You denoted a "player" as making over $1500 a month.
Oh, having gone through background checks before, the idea does not bother me... but someone like you I guess it would.
Typical response from those who wouldn't take responsibility for thier own actions and howl "well others do it"...
But as the story goes... lie with dogs and you get the fleas too.
I have no idea what your last comment means but I'm sure you will come up with some explanation.
posted on May 3, 2003 09:27:20 AM new
Ah what rich irony.
Persons who call for sanctions on others invariably scream "You're violating my civil rights!" when restrictions are placed on their own actions.
It's always about the other guy.
I don't even have to know tinypole to be certain that he's all about that kind of craven foolishness.
"Don't tax you. Don't tax me. Tax that fellow behind the tree."
--
"It has been my great privilege to be your mother. To you, my dear and faithful son, from earth to heaven I salute you..." Julie McPhillips at the funeral of Marine 1st Lt. Brian McPhillips, killed in Iraq.
posted on May 3, 2003 09:37:56 AM new
What I want to know is why anyone thinks that it would be reasonable for ebay to demand a criminal background check when the federal government doesn't. When I applied for by federal tax ID number it took 10 minutes over the phone and I had the number. Sorry but I'm not about to jump thru more hoops for ebay than I do for the government and I'll be damned if ebay needs my ssn.
It's not about "fear of discovery" as Twelve is surely about to throw at me but more about things like the three year battle I went thru with state and federal taxes when my ssn was used by another person for employment purposes. Imagine my surprise to get a notice from the government that I owed thousands of dollars in unpaid taxes on wages I had never earned. Sorry folks but if you are not my bank or the government, you don't get my ssn.
Also, considering the ease with which my social was stolen, do you really believe that a scam artist can't hijack a few for internet background check purposes?
posted on May 3, 2003 09:50:42 AM new
I am not talking about "Internet" background checks.... you go down to the local police station and get finger printed and checked... will make money for the police also...
posted on May 3, 2003 10:27:47 AM new
I'm dying to here how you think this logistically will work. Do you honestly think that police departments want to deal ebay sellers? Sorry doll, I'd much rather my police department devote their time to getting rid of the crack dealers down the street than doing background checks on every tom dick and harry that thinks they are going to make thousands a month on ebay.
BTW - how do regulate this $1500 a month cap. Considering that one never knows how high bidding will go on an item, the cap would be a little difficult to enforce. What is to stop a scam artist from listing 100 auctions for computers all starting at $1 with no reserve? We all know that their final bidding amount will exceed the cap so how do you propose enforcing it?
posted on May 3, 2003 11:08:53 AM new
Look Sweetheart.... I don't care what you think your police force should be doing... I know for a fact they run backgrounds on firearms sales... not that much more work...
And I think I agreed with Trai to have EVERYONE get the license...
posted on May 3, 2003 11:12:20 AM new
You don't go to the police for a background check on firearms sales. The seller does it.
No one is afraid Twele - we are just sick of honest people being treated like criminals all the time. I should not have to prove my innocence before I even enter the arena.
posted on May 3, 2003 11:14:50 AM new
I won't disagree with that, but as things have turned out, the few bad apples are ruining it for the rest... better to chop off a few limbs to save the tree, than to let the whole tree die.
posted on May 3, 2003 11:28:38 AM new
But Twelve I've been hearing this "dying" theory for a few years now and all I see is growth. Sure we may not be getting the same number of bids we used to but you have to consider that there are now 5 times as many sellers to divide those bids among.
Rather than bogging down local police departments with background checks wouldn't it be easier and more efficient to for ebay to have a team devoted to watching out for potential problems? Put in a red flag alert email address where other ebayers can bring questionable auctions to their attention and let the team shut down questionable auctions or freeze the listing ability of questionable sellers (without NARUing) until they are able to establish legitamacy. If they are unable, NARU them but in the meantime, you don't injure a potentially legit seller with an unneccessary NARU label.
posted on May 3, 2003 11:54:28 AM new
This just won't effect eBay, it will be for ALL online sellers either through auction sites or their own websites... everything online...
That is an option Neon, but if I believe it would take FTC regulation to force eBay to police its site... and others to police their own...
posted on May 3, 2003 12:32:31 PM new
What if ALL sellers were required to leave money in
an interest bearing escrow account where the balance had to match the sellers "for
sale" inventory? Most new businesses have to put money out to start anyway. This
way you could build up your inventory as your escrow account went up, taking money
from sales to build up your escrow account? One of the problems with the big
scammers is that they don't have to put any money out upfront. Most times, they don't
even have the merchandise they list...all they need to do is put copied pictures of the
items up. And I have seen that feedback or none at all, too many people will bid if an
item looks too good to be true, no matter who is selling. In that case, yes it is the
bidders fault. But I have been scammed a few times by sellers with impeccable current
feedback...then they do a huge amount of listings one week and then they vanish. If
they knew the money in their escrow account was frozen for 30 days, There would be
less of this activity.
posted on May 3, 2003 12:55:49 PM new
Licenses? Background checks? Escrow accounts?
That's just what we need. More government agencies or worse, Ebay itself nosing around in my and your business.
I say we have the laws on the books and the mechanisms already in place to find, deal with and punish the scammers and bums.
The basics of commerce are two people trading what they each have for what they each want. Taxes, licenses, fees and paperwork are the result of other entities wanting to get involved in that basic transaction.
I'm not saying that it's wrong for someone to provide a service like bringing two buyers together or to regulate the transaction to avoid future problems but each time someone steps into the basic transaction the final price goes up. Cash, time, effort and frustration are all Costs of Doing Business. Why add to those costs with any added overhead.
posted on May 3, 2003 12:58:45 PM new
So in other words you are suggesting that you not only have enough to purchase your items at wholesale but also to deposit he retail cost in an escrow account? ROFL. Wake up... real world calling! There are a lot of people selling on ebay to have enough to cover their bills, do you really think that they have have enough extra money lying around that they could afford to fund this magical escrow account?
::Most new businesses have to put money out to start anyway. ::
Yes - to create inventory not to create non benefiting escrow accounts. You realize that as opposed to most ebayers, the majority of retailers don't even have to shell out the their costs on the items until 30 to 90 days after they recieve it.
posted on May 3, 2003 01:58:13 PM newalso there are consumer protection laws in place for "live" transactions.
I am agog to know what protections are in place for consumers at B&M stores that do not involve: false advertising, bait & switch or defective goods? It varies from stste to state, but in general whatever the store posts is what the rules are for the sale.
If it is cleary posted in a store a buyer can not:
1) Get a refund.
2) Make an exchange or return an item.
The store sets its terms and if it is posted, the buyer is pretty much SOL.
Heck in one store I know of, if you pay in cash and want a refund for an UNUSED item over $250 you have to wait for them to send you a check which can take up to 2 weeks. In the meantime they have the returned product and your money. They can do that as long as it is clearly posted.
Do that on the net and everyone wants to file a fraud report on the seller for not immediately refunding via paypal.
As for licenses, I think most sellers are licensed through their city or county. Especially the ones that sell new items. Background checks? Please! I am sure the monkeys at Enron had sterling backgrounds, when they were hired.
Bottom line: You never know when a seller will go bad.
I had a fraud report filed on me because, I said a pair of shoes had "aproximately 4 inch heels". The buyer claimed they were "3 & 7/8". I am sure that report is in with the 51,000 filed.
Another sller I know, had a fraud report filed because the buyer claimed she falsely stated the dress was a size 2. The seller included all measurements. The dress was a size 2 in that designers sizing.
Edited to add: I have been stung as many times in a retail setting as I have been on the net. No matter where you purchase it is ALWAYS "buyer beware".
posted on May 3, 2003 02:59:07 PM new
I've had my own successful retail business for 15 years...by successful I mean I support myself in a way that I am comfortable with. I had a B&M store for 10 years. I am speaking from experience. So I am living in the "real world" of retail. Compared to the costs of starting up and running a successful B&M retail store, ebay sellers have little to pay. Most B&M retailers have to take on a business loan of some kind. What costs does a seller incur when starting up an ebay store? NOTHING. So they have nothing to lose. Many ebay sellers can also acquire their items on time..30/60/90, just like "retailers". Go to any retail/ wholesale show and you can purchase the same stock as your local B&M retail store does, on time and with little if any overhead. I think an EBAY (not government) escrow account would be fair to everyone. The small time seller who starts with a small inventory can expand slowly and the major sellers would be held accountable for their inventory. I know it's not a perfect solution, but I hope something can be done to restore public confidence in buying on ebay.
posted on May 3, 2003 03:46:32 PM new
Could someone please tell me when the consumer confidence bottomed out? I was not aware it had. Funny thing is, I think there is more paranoia among SELLERS than buyers - hell we have one thread right now where a seller refuses to deal with TWO buyers because of their email address
I have good sell thru rates and as competitive bids so I'm dying to now where all of this lost consumer confidence that we should all be made to jump thru this wide variety of hoops to regain is.
To be quite honest, the sellers I see complaining the most about lack of sales are ones that either have nothing interesting to sell, are not competitive in their pricing or are so anal retentive in their TOS that no bidder in their right mind would want to deal with them again. (Not neccesarily speaking of people on this board BTW)
posted on May 3, 2003 04:41:33 PM new
When the gullible and the opportunistic meet, as they inevitably do, there is only one outcome. One feels cheated and the other has achieved his ends.
There are two possible lessons to learn from this recurring activity:
1) The gullible wises up and decides not to be duped again, or
2) The gullible shouts for a regulatory agency that will protect him from having to think.
But whatever safeguards are put into place, the gullible and the opportunistic will *always* find a way to connect. Why? It's spelled G-R-E-E-D.
--
"It has been my great privilege to be your mother. To you, my dear and faithful son, from earth to heaven I salute you..." Julie McPhillips at the funeral of Marine 1st Lt. Brian McPhillips, killed in Iraq.
posted on May 3, 2003 07:52:56 PM new
Neon, I didn't say Ebay consumer confidence has bottomed out. I implied that it is in
decline, and it is, temporarily or not. And as a seller I don't retain any of the 3
characteristics you list as symptoms of "poor me sellers syndrome", although the first is
really a matter of opinion, isn't it?
I start all of my auctions with a very reasonable opening bid and no reserve ( always
have). My sell through rate is atleast 95% which I think is good, especially as I sell only
Antiques and vintage items. My terms are short and sweet, my customer service
policies are easy and relaxed. In my 4 1/2 years selling here, with the exception of a
few and far between, my transactions have been pleasant and uneventful. I am
addressing the lack of trust and the reluctance to shop on ebay which exists in the general
public ( potential customers). I meet with and speak to many people during my week
as I am a busy consignment seller. Their main motivation for hiring me to consign for
them is that they are just plain SCARED to do any business at all on ebay...buying or
selling. That opinion is commonplace even outside of my business, here is an example:
I had a home remodeling salesman come to my home last week He saw some antiques
in my home, we started talking about antiques, he told me what he collects and asked
me if I had any. I enthusiastically asked him if he ever shops on ebay as there is alot of
this item for sale here. He replied that he would NEVER shop on ebay because
he's heard too many stories about people getting "ripped off". Another example: a
customer who I have been selling for since October just sent me an article from
"Antiques Weekly". The article goes on and on about ebay scams, getting "ripped off"
,con artists and how realized prices are down by 40%. OK, I Know why these articles
are written. Who pays for the advertising in these publications....Ebay? No. The B&M
Antique malls, shops and "extravaganzas" pay for these publications to stay afloat, so
they are hoping to drive some paranoia into prospective ebay shoppers. I KNOW
THIS...but the average Joe doesn't and doesn't care. All they know is that they are
going to stay away from ebay and continue to shop where the goods are tangible.
I am not saying the sky is falling. I am just saying there has been alot of publicity and
media attention lately talking up the negs of ebay. That can't be GOOD for business.
posted on May 3, 2003 08:13:52 PM new
inot - when people start discussing the drop in final prices how many times do you think that are blaming "lack of consumer confidence" as opposed to plain old every day oversaturation or a weakened economy? I no longer get the $30 to $40 I could once get from some of my widgets - is this because of a drop in consumer confidence? No. Its due to a limited audience and more (incompetent) sellers in the field.
The people that you mention are not losses to the auction world - they were never here to lose.
posted on May 4, 2003 08:00:36 AM new
Y'know, tinypole, I don't get angry at comments like yours because you've never demonstrated you're worth getting angry over. You've squandered all your credibility capital.
People like my partner's uncle do exist...folks who want to GET! RICH! QUICK! The nice word for such marks is "gullible"; the correct term is "greedy".
People don't sign up to buy Florida beachfront property for $100 an acre because they're trusting.
--
"It has been my great privilege to be your mother. To you, my dear and faithful son, from earth to heaven I salute you..." Julie McPhillips at the funeral of Marine 1st Lt. Brian McPhillips, killed in Iraq.
posted on May 4, 2003 08:23:43 AM new
Yeah, well if hadn't of mattered you wouldn't of answered...
Oh and if you think I care about your idea of my "credibility" you are sadly mistaken...
Yours and others apathy toward buyers is the prime reason people make complaints to the FTC and hopefully soon they will begin to take some action.
posted on May 4, 2003 10:59:15 AM new
fluffy is right. The ones that scream the loudest for legislation cannot police their own actions.
I know of someone that gave his life savings to a telemarketer and kept sending more and more money in hopes of a bigger prize. All he ended up with was a handful of cheap pens. Then he was on TV crying. This is the same guy that went into the local dollar store and whined about the cost of a pen.
Or the one that gave all his savings to a psychic because she told him she could pick lottery numbers for him.
Yes, it is GREED. And while they are sitting back all smug because of newer legislation another scammer is all ready to hit them again with a new scam. It happens all the time.
posted on May 4, 2003 06:34:41 PM new
When the California Lottery was enacted years ago (I'm old enough to remember it), the only way you could play was to buy $1 scratch-off tickets.
About six months after the start, network news featured a woman sitting next to her kitchen table piled high with stacks of rubberbanded scratched-off tickets. She had lost her retirement savings and was in danger of losing her home because she believed that if she scratched off ONE MORE TICKET, that would be the gazillion-dollar winner. (Oh, she did win some smaller prizes, but that money just bought more tickets.)
She blamed the legislature for legalizing the lottery.
She blamed the Lottery for not having printed more winning tickets.
She blamed her husband for not having stopped her....when he didn't even know she was sneaking money out of the bank to play.
Anyone but her own precious self.
You saw this coming. Everyone knows someone like this. That's why common sense usually prevails, ultimately.
--
"It has been my great privilege to be your mother. To you, my dear and faithful son, from earth to heaven I salute you..." Julie McPhillips at the funeral of Marine 1st Lt. Brian McPhillips, killed in Iraq.
posted on May 5, 2003 01:48:28 PM new
On consumer issues, I'm all for reasonable regulation but I just don't see how more regulation on eBay would help. The fact is, almost all transactions on eBay go well. Of the ones that don't, almost all of the bad ones could have been avoided if everybody
1) Paid attention to seller feedback and terms of service before they bid, and
2) Left appropriate feedback and filed NPB when appropriate.
This would stop almost everyone except the good-seller-gone-suddenly-bad and the NPB bidder who keeps skating from one ID to another. There's no reliable way to get at the first and no logistical way to get at the second without tumbling into some serious privacy issues.
